Public Apology and Retraction Regarding Martin O Refurbisher

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Public Apology and Retraction Regarding Martin O Refurbisher

Postby Sheng-ji » 24 Feb 2012, 15:41

Hi everyone,

As you all know I caused a lot of drama over the last few days because of my difficulties in dealing with Martin.

I would like to take this opportunity to publicly apologise for my actions so here goes:

Martin, I am deeply sorry for my behaviour towards you. There is no excuse at all, however there are reasons for my behaviour. I will not self indulge them here as you already know them. I should not have questioned your integrity the way I did. I do not believe the things I wrote and if they hadn't have already been deleted I would have requested that they be. I will not repeat them even to retract them because such things should not be set out again.

I do not expect you to accept my apology, but I know now that I have some clarity that my behaviour was immature, inappropriate and completely lacked respect for you, your business and other members of this board. It was a disruption to the easy going good natured flow of this board and as I feel my actions will never be truly forgiven or forgotten I will leave as I don't wish to spoil what you have here.

I hope we can put this matter behind us, I understand fully that you no longer wish to do business with me, your chair is here being well looked after, not being used, left on charge and in better condition than when it arrived as my brother has fixed the backlash. He has even kept the worn parts in case you do not like his repair. It is waiting for you to pick it up as soon as you've told paypal to process my refund.

Do not worry about me, I have secured a different chair from elsewhere, it is no where near as good but that is the price I pay for my actions. If you have any thoughts or feelings you wish to share, then I will humbly read them and of course you know the channels to contact me if you wish that to be private. I will not be returning here again for the reasons I mentioned above so PM's will not reach me but you have my email address.

Once again, I am sorry,

Will
Sheng-ji
 
Posts: 20
Joined: 25 Oct 2011, 02:43
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Re: Public Apology and Retraction Regarding Martin O Refurbisher

Postby Martin O Refurbisher » 24 Feb 2012, 16:17

Will,
I have chased PayPal to expedite the return of your funds to you. I am sorry we could not have talked face to face.

Your apology is accepted. I also apologise for failing to be able to deal with you in the manner you wished.
Let's put this sad event behind us and move on. None of us can please everyone all of the time.

Do not feel excluded from the forum on my behalf - Burgerman allows very open discussion, and I am certainly not going against his generous support for all of us.

Best Wishes,

Martin
Martin O Refurbisher
 

Re: Public Apology and Retraction Regarding Martin O Refurbisher

Postby Sheng-ji » 04 Mar 2012, 00:41

I would like it to be known that I completely retract this apology.

It took me about a minute to copy, paste and edit after a google search for "Apology Letters" or some such, there was never any meaning behind the words.

Why did I post a fake apology?

Because Martin was effectively blackmailing me. He made it perfectly plain that he would obstruct the process for as long as he was able to do so with a combination of deceit, lies and his usual confidence tricks meaning I would not see my life's savings for another 2 months - leaving me bed bound for another two months when there was a chair I wanted to buy on ebay at the time.

So I swallowed my pride and issued a fake apology and within an hour of doing so, surprise surprise, the money was winging it's way to me, Martin had consented to allow my refund (Basically he told paypal that I had returned his chair to him - which was of course true, he had been delaying telling them because... well that's the sort of deceitful little man he is, and he relies on this forum for a large percentage of his income and so really wanted that apology)

Now that the money arrived safely back into my account today (God bless paypal - say what you like about them, but it saved me from losing my hard earned cash to a conman) I feel confident in telling everyone how meaningless this was.

Martin O Refurbisher is a conman, a liar, a thief and a dickhead. (Come on Martin, stop throwing around terms like libel, put your money where your mouth is and take me to court. I relish the moment that the judge requests that you be detained on criminal charges as I prove you tried to con me - after all, you claim on ebay to be a lawyer, come on, do it, DO IT!!)

Speaking of court, Martin, you owe me £100 for the money I had to spend returning that piece of junk. I should not be out of pocket because you tried to con me.

Anyway, happy ending for me, I got my money back, I'm going to drag MoR through the courts forwards, backwards and every which way until he refunds me my money I spend sending him back his chair and enjoy doing so and I managed to win that chair I wanted. It's not an F55 and Burgerman doesn't rate it, but frankly I'm not going to copy the BM chairs - I have my own plans and this seems just as suited for them as the f55 (though I may well be proven wrong when it arrives) but more importantly I get my independence back!!! A month later than I should have thanks to Mr O'Refurbisher, but that's life!

Remember people, don't make the mistake I made - Don't trust the helpful guy on the forums to not be a rip off merchant. The con bit of conman comes from the word confidence because once they have yours, they'll take you for all you're worth. That's the skill of their trade, gaining your confidence - and Martin does that by being Mr helpful here.

Oh, Martin, you never did answer: How can you be a non profit if you are able to offer discounts and how can you be a volunteer if you charge for your time? Just asking, cos.... well, I don't care what you answer actually, but it may make others think a bit before blindly trusting you!

Oh and by leaving positive feedback with an abusive and very personal message on ebay, you have breached their regulations... Obviously I reported you, but I actually hope you don't get your account banned, otherwise I won't know who you are again!
Sheng-ji
 
Posts: 20
Joined: 25 Oct 2011, 02:43
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Public Apology and Retraction Regarding Martin O Refurbisher

Postby Sheng-ji » 04 Mar 2012, 00:55

Actually, there wasone element to my apology which wasn't faked, which was hand written by me and that I did entirely mean and that was my apology to other board members who felt disrupted by my expose on Martin. It may have only been half a sentence but I meant it. I just feel it is important for potential customers to understand how difficult Martin is and how dishonest he is. I feel it is more important to stop others being ripped off than it is to respect the ambience of your forum.
Sheng-ji
 
Posts: 20
Joined: 25 Oct 2011, 02:43
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Public Apology and Retraction Regarding Martin O Refurbisher

Postby Burgerman » 04 Mar 2012, 11:53

I have to add that I have other forum users with issues too. Over a year or more in some cases. So I have some concerns also although nothing personally. Which is why I will leave this up. Of course some others have positive dealings too.

I suggest that for any custom work, that a small (20 percent?) deposit with the rest due on completion, to acceptable standard and finish in an agreed time frame is the only sensible way to do things regardless of who you deal with. Then everyone knows where they stand.

eBay sales are a little different and it has its own safeguards in a fashion...

If you are buying a chair, you need to see and examine it, test it, get written guarantees, and a full written description of what you are buying and what has been done/replaced with new before you order or pay for it.

With custom work you really do need to have every detail of what you are expecting, and to what standard of build and finish and a timescale limit in black and white BEFORE you order anything, with a reasonable part payment deposit. Again dont part with the bulk of your cash until you are happy with the result. If it takes longer than agreed, go elsewhere and take action to retrieve deposit.

Its easy and takes about a day to weld up a bunch of old parts to build a custom powerchair. Its a slow and labour intensive and difficult job to create a similar chair built to high as new or better standards. I wouldnt part with thousands of pounds for a powerchair unless I saw what I was getting.

Expectations, and tech details, parts used etc needs to be very clear and in black and white and agreed before you begin.
Burgerman
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Re: Public Apology and Retraction Regarding Martin O Refurbisher

Postby Martin O Refurbisher » 04 Mar 2012, 17:30

This saga gets incredible.

Will,
you accuse me of lying, then lie yourself, for no good reason.
You will not talk to me on the telephone, or face to face - you have given an explanation as to why your condition prevents that, and it is not for me to disregard that.

You must however get your facts straight.

When I explained that the picture I posted of the pale blue chair was the wrong one, and I wanted to discuss this with you, your response was not to discuss the matter, but to stop the PayPal payment then and there. You also then said you wanted a black frame, and I delivered one with a black frame. I explained to your brother that if you did not like it, I would travel back from Hove to Southampton to collect it or change it, at your option. Your brother said he was happy, and I left it for him to get back to me, as I could not speak with you.

Fortunately, even though the chair had to be lifted over two steps, this was accomplished, not by me but by my colleague John, assisted by your brother, so has nothing to do with my mobility.

So far as the return goes, if you did not like it, I had already said to your brother that I would collect the chair without cost to you. You declined this and made your own arrangements.

I have not received a penny from you, although I have incurred costs and considerable time in trying to help. I have never held up your refund from PayPal, indeed I tried to expedite it for you, after you took it out of my hands by escalating to a dispute.

I am sorry that we could not resolve this, and for your attitude.

My attitude remains that I and my team will do our best to keep our clients happy.

I have however had enough of this and am therefore planning an orderly shut down of the wheelchair service, once all current commitments are completed.

Best,

Martin
Martin O Refurbisher
 

Re: Public Apology and Retraction Regarding Martin O Refurbisher

Postby Martin O Refurbisher » 04 Mar 2012, 17:43

Burgerman,
I echo your sentiments in general.

If anyone has a problem with anything supplied by us, I am very happy to discuss it, and will always seek to resolve the problem in the buyer's favour. We don't let people down.

Building bespoke chairs, is as you well know, very labour intensive.

It also relies upon:
- purchase of new standard parts, and sometimes these are not in stock with the various suppliers, sometimes we get the wrong part delivered;
- refurbishment of used parts,
- manufacture of special parts,

Its very true that some builds have taken much much longer than originally planned - we usually reckon on 5-8 weeks, subject to parts, assuming the design and specification are agreed.

Two we have outstanding have been subjected to a wide variety of changes, and one of those is awaiting sign-off, the other parts from overseas which have been mis-shipped. (both these are for forum members)

We have two others in build which are on agreed track (both these are for other clients, where the spec is agreed).

We ask for prepayment to cover what we have to spend - on a £5,000 bespoke build, that could typically be £4,000. This buys the client's parts, and pays for the special parts. We have overheads to cover such as rent, rates, energy, consumables, vehicle costs, etc., but no one is paid for their labour, which is why our labour rate is only £39 per hour, not c£60 per hour as is the local norm.

In any event, as indicated above, I've had enough of this flak, and am heading for an orderly shut down once these orders are cleared.

Our only motive was, as volunteers, to help others. Clearly we are wrong.

Best,

Martin
Martin O Refurbisher
 

Re: Public Apology and Retraction Regarding Martin O Refurbisher

Postby Sheng-ji » 04 Mar 2012, 19:42

Martin O Refurbisher wrote:You will not talk to me on the telephone, or face to face - you have given an explanation as to why your condition prevents that, and it is not for me to disregard that.


So why bring it up? I'm happy to talk to you via skype or face to face with three conditions imposed:

1) You will need to understand sign language and respect the fact that I am only just learning it.

2) If my neuro condition kicks in, the conversation will have to end immediately.

3) You will need to consent beforehand for me to record both the video and audio of our conversation on court approved equipment. This is because of your dishonesty so far.

Martin O Refurbisher wrote:When I explained that the picture I posted of the pale blue chair was the wrong one, and I wanted to discuss this with you, your response was not to discuss the matter, but to stop the PayPal payment then and there.


Actually, seeing as how this seems to be important to you, let's get all the facts straight. I asked you to supply pictures of the chair I would actually be getting. I gave you 24 hours to do so. Bearing in mind this was after a week of you having completely ignored (Or you claim to have emailed me asking for my phone number - which never arrived to either my pending box on by bluebottle account or my spam filter on my gmail account or either inboxes) me. After 24 hours and having watched you log in and out of the forum multiple times I decided to raise the dispute. I thought long and hard about doing so but I decided to actually do it because you had out and out stated that I would not be getting the chair I paid for but you were making no effort to tell me what I would be getting. I was worried that I would not get a chair worth what I had paid.

Martin O Refurbisher wrote:You also then said you wanted a black frame


Hold it right there buddy!

Did I actually say that? What I actually said was (and go check your emails if you don't believe me): "It's a shame because it's the worst colour but I'll take the green one"

Not at any point in our entire conversation did I indicate that I wanted a black frame. I did mention a black frame in November when I was considering ordering a custom build chair from you - and as you offered powder coating as part of that service. I knew that powdercoating was not being offered here.

Martin O Refurbisher wrote:I explained to your brother that if you did not like it, I would travel back from Hove to Southampton to collect it or change it, at your option. Your brother said he was happy, and I left it for him to get back to me, as I could not speak with you


OK, I wasn't happy. You never came back. Offering something is all well and good, but if you don't actually do what you've offered, it's just another deception - another way you can seem to be doing the right thing where in reality you are not. I would have much more respect for you if you had just out and out said "I have no intention of coming back and changing it if you are unhappy" At least then you would be honest. It was made very clear to you over that week that my brother would be there and arrangements would be made for me not to be there so you didn't have to deal with me but my bro who you spoke of positively.

Martin O Refurbisher wrote:Fortunately, even though the chair had to be lifted over two steps, this was accomplished, not by me but by my colleague John, assisted by your brother, so has nothing to do with my mobility.


OK - now I have no idea where you're mind is wandering off too. I have never publicly questioned your mobility or lack of it. I will admit that my brother and I were somewhat perplexed that you claim higher rate mobility allowance when you don't seem to match the conditions required but from what I can tell (As I don't claim benefits myself) the DWP and ATOS are very generous and flexible with their awards - even though you need to be unable to walk 50m to be able to get the higher rate (and my path that you walked down with ease is 100m) I know that they are good at making exceptions where such exceptions are required and I have never publicly questioned this.

Martin O Refurbisher wrote:So far as the return goes, if you did not like it, I had already said to your brother that I would collect the chair without cost to you. You declined this and made your own arrangements.


I didn't ever decline you arranging to have the chair picked up. Once you started talking about collecting money on my doorstep I got very scared of you, you seemed to be very flippant about a very aggressive and intrusive act so I did request that you do not come to my home. It should also be pointed out that had I allowed you to collect it in your motability van, not only would that be breaching the terms of your motability insurance - I would be knowingly allowing an uninsured driver to travel on the road - but it would leave me in no position to be able to prove I had returned it. I was expecting you to send out your round robin specialist couriers to collect it, but after a week of them not arriving, I made my own arrangements. I tried to stick to your budget of £75 but as you have never told me the name or any details of the firm you use nor could I find them myself, I found the next cheapest service which as I have pointed out came to a total, all told of £100 - not too shabby a price.

Martin O Refurbisher wrote:I have not received a penny from you, although I have incurred costs and considerable time in trying to help.


You incurred costs because you did not deliver what you said you were going to. Had you delivered the chair as advertised on ebay and as reiterated 3 or 4 times by myself, then you would have incurred no costs. Except delivery. Which I paid for. In advance.

And yes, I did raise a dispute, but that money was still yours IF you delivered what you had sold me.

But you didn't. And I shouldn't have to pay for that.


Martin O Refurbisher wrote:I have never held up your refund from PayPal, indeed I tried to expedite it for you, after you took it out of my hands by escalating to a dispute.


All you had to do was enter the dispute process and click the authorise refund button. It's as simple as that. It's an automated process. I had requested a refund and I had returned the chair to you. All you had to do was click "Yes the chair has been returned, please authorise the refund" It was made clear to you at that point that you were never ever getting that money, the contract was cancelled so what did you have to gain by delaying? I don't think you were dragging your heels out of spite - you're too calculating for that. You wanted, needed that apology and this was the last bit of leverage you had on me.

Martin O Refurbisher wrote:I am sorry that we could not resolve this, and for your attitude.


It would have been resolved the second you sent me what you sold me, or equivalent. Christ, what don't you get about that. Now, it will be resolved the second you refund me the money I spent on posting back the piece of junk you tried to offload on me.

Martin O Refurbisher wrote:My attitude remains that I and my team will do our best to keep our clients happy.


Just words - put this into action with your other customers.

Martin O Refurbisher wrote:I have however had enough of this and am therefore planning an orderly shut down of the wheelchair service, once all current commitments are completed.


As this is clearly not a statement to me - Hell would have to freeze over and you would have to be the only person left alive before I would ever do business with you again (and I suspect vice versa)- then I shall refrain from going into too much detail about how happy this statement makes me.

Although, if you think that by wrapping up Zippy you can avoid having to pay the postage costs for returning your chair, sadly I have to point out, your ebay account is a personal account and it is you I am invoicing for that money, not Zippy.

Will
Sheng-ji
 
Posts: 20
Joined: 25 Oct 2011, 02:43
Location: Southampton, UK

Re: Public Apology and Retraction Regarding Martin O Refurbisher

Postby Martin O Refurbisher » 05 Mar 2012, 09:39

Will,
I don't understand sign language, and this is the first time that you have proposed a Skype call.

Your carriage price alone shows you are yourself a rip off merchant.
Not only did you not accept my offer to collect, but if you say you paid that much, I doubt anyone on this board will believe it. The national figure, not local is a max of £75, for one end of the country to the other!
EBay and google widely offer services such as Shiply.com which find low cost couriers and I am sure you know that.

I realise that your paranoia is a result of illness, and I am sad to see how it affects you.

However, I think this tirade of yours has taken up too much of this board - anyone who wants to talk to me directly can do so by email, phone or skype, and I shall let it rest there.

Best,

Martin
Martin O Refurbisher
 


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