Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 01 Aug 2017, 10:36

No need.Buy the same 4mm connectors. Buy a midi fuse. Buy a few meters of the same silicone cable -- all on ebay. No need to splice or bodge anything.

You WILL need to splice the balance wires. Make them all a different length, and just solder each and heat shrink.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby snaker » 02 Aug 2017, 01:16

Is it necessary to fit a fuse on the cable that connects between PL8 and the power supply?
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 02 Aug 2017, 01:25

Not really. The power supply should be short protected already. I have a 100A fuse in my van to protect from shorted wiring catching fire as I charge there regularly. Inc hobby stuff. But a cars battery can give 1000s of amps, a fuse is important there.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby snaker » 04 Aug 2017, 08:26

Burgerman wrote:Use a so called midi fuse. They are small. Solder wires directly, slide on heat shrink. Or just 15 mm of 40A fuse wire and heat shrink. If you think you cant fit it in.

BM, do you have a pic that shows how a MIDI fuse is directly soldered on a wire? I just want to see how it looks before being wrapped into a heatshrink tube. These littelfuse MIDI fuses are still strange to me and people here. We still do know how to properly solder it to a wire. A pic will help us much.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 04 Aug 2017, 08:56

No. But just fold the wire around the end, flux, solder. Very easy.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby shirley_hkg » 04 Aug 2017, 09:12

Burgerman wrote: just fold the wire around the end, flux, solder. .


Ain't no better way to connect a fuse to wire , than solderring ? ? ? :shock:
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 04 Aug 2017, 09:42

There is no more compact way. Its easy to hide it in the cable covering. A 40A fuse is good for 60 to 70A in reality so its never going to fail unless something drastic occurs! Even if it does, you can still change it in minutes.

Obviously you can use ring terminals if you want. Or a fuse holder. But the idea is to keep it super small in the loom. You could also skip the fuse completely, if you use the protected banana plugs with minimal risk.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby snaker » 07 Aug 2017, 09:24

The fuse would be easier to solder if it has barrels at 2 ends.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 07 Aug 2017, 14:39

No harder. Nothing to fold wire over. Both are easy. Took longer to type this than to do it!



Fold cable copper end over, Squash flat to make it tight and flat so its one piece. . Solder it...
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 07 Aug 2017, 15:39

Squash flat with pliers... Solder!
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby expresso » 07 Aug 2017, 15:52

Do you have to use two fuses for making the lead - one on each cable like the original cable for the Charger ?

or would just one fuse be ok on either pos or neg. ?
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 07 Aug 2017, 15:56

Two is safer. I use one. The only thing they protect are the cables. With protected banana plugs its almost impossible to short the chairs or any battery out. Unless the insulation gets trapped and rips. And the best place for the fuse is at the chair end. Or on the chair in the charge cable.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby expresso » 07 Aug 2017, 16:04

Ok - i have no fuses on the Charge Cable on the Chair end - its on the Charger end cables - originals come with two fuses - one each cable - the Chair of course i have the breaker on the battery pack - i was under the impression thats fine this way ?

i dont recall discussing about fuses on the Charge Cable on the Chair end -
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 07 Aug 2017, 16:18

Dont worry.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby ex-Gooserider » 08 Aug 2017, 02:18

snaker wrote:I see the PL8's stock charge cable is too short (50cm?). I want to extend it to about 100cm. Could you recommend for me an 'easy' way to implement it.
http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... Stackable-

I am thinking about using "butt splice" connectors to extend the cables. Is it safe enough?
https://youtu.be/pdBcPJ7Dtaw


Any sort of crimp connectors are not going to be as good as a length of wire that is the correct size, and are only going to be as good as a soldered connector if PROPERLY crimped with the right tooling exactly per specs... I get extra paranoid about them in cases where the connection is for high currents, like it is in the PL8 charge cables...

I really don't like using crimps if I can avoid it, but they are OK for terminating a wire when done properly... I will only use a 'butt splice' if it is not practical to replace the entire wire... I will also be far more inclined to do a soldered splice instead....

On fuses and when / where to use them....

The purpose of a fuse is to protect the wiring in a circuit from excess current draws in the event of a short circuit or excess current draw...(the purpose of the expensive electronics is to protect the cheap fuse... :roll: ) This tells us that the only place a fuse is needed is when there is a possibility of excess draw... So the ONLY place a fuse is needed is next to, and as close as possible to the current source.... The fuse needs to be sized to be appropriate for the SMALLEST size wire in the circuit it is protecting.... In a branching circuit this may mean multiple fuses, one large one to protect the 'trunk' and a smaller one to protect each 'branch'

So if you have a battery, you want a fuse in the leads coming from it, as close as possible to the battery as practical. In a typical car, with negative ground, the fuse should only be in the positive lead and NEVER in the negative... On our chairs, the fuse can be in either the positive or negative lead, only one is NEEDED but no harm to put one in both. However by convention it is normal to put the fuse on the positive side...

If you have a power supply, you need a fuse or other protection on the output, again by convention only one is needed, and it should be in the positive lead - and if the supply already has adequate protection built in, then it isn't really needed other than for redundancy.

In US AC, all fuses (and switches) should be on the HOT wire, NEVER on the Neutral, and NOTHING should be able to interrupt the earth ground wire (which also should never have any current on it...)

So the PL8 gets power from a supply, and can both source and receive power on its output side....

The power supply (battery or other) SHOULD have protection already, but it might be heavier wire than the PL8 supply wire (the line from my car battery is AWG 6 with a 150A breaker) and isn't guaranteed to be there, so it does not hurt to put a fuse in the positive lead, PL8 spec page says it has a 60A max input current, so any fuse a bit over that would work. Per the standard of putting the fuse close to the source, it should be next to the plug.... Since it can be plugged into a vehicle, there should NOT be a fuse in the negative lead. If you are sure that you are never going to be drawing more than a certain amount of current on the input side, you can use a smaller than 60A fuse, as long as what is used is more than your expected maximum draw... (It might even be a good idea if you want to be sure a power supply never pulls more than a certain amount from the mains, even if the PL8 gets set wrong...)

The output side of the PL8 is supposedly protected, and there SHOULD be a fuse in the wiring between the chair's charge connector and the batteries (as close as possible to the battery as practical) so in theory it shouldn't need a fuse in the charge lead, but again it wouldn't hurt...

I've never seen anyone talk about putting fuses in the balance wires - though there are options that could be used.... Again since supposedly there are protections in the PL8, if I was fusing the balance wires, I'd want to put the fuses (and you would need one for each wire) next to the batteries....

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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby snaker » 13 Aug 2017, 09:16

expresso, can you post the link where you bought your current heat gun?
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby expresso » 13 Aug 2017, 15:27

snaker wrote:expresso, can you post the link where you bought your current heat gun?


https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1


https://smile.amazon.com/Bestgle-Shrink ... ni+heatgun

the one i got no longer can get - but its the same as above link - -

the torch same thing - they dont have it - but there are dozens around - you can choose from - i use the torch just for making cables etc, - the mini heat gun for heatshrink on the wiring after they are made
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby snaker » 14 Aug 2017, 01:48

Thanks expresso. The torches in your link are nice and their prices are reasonable. I only find 1-2 torches around here, all looks low quality, unsafe but costs $50. Electric tools and parts here are rare and expensive.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby expresso » 14 Aug 2017, 02:34

yeah what can we do - prices are crazy - and BM thinks my prices are crazy here compared to UK - we cant win -
Quickie P222se - - 36ah ADD on pack -
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby snaker » 17 Aug 2017, 02:03

Burgerman wrote:Squash flat with pliers... Solder!
download/file.php?id=6917

BM, can I do this with 8 awg power cables? I mean directly soldering a 125A/32V MIDI fuse on a 8 awg cable. Is it safe enough?
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