200Ah Pack

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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 05 Nov 2019, 17:38

Scooterman wrote:
expresso wrote:i try my best to connect the wire in a way where it wont be stressed or dosnt have to be bent etc, - so there is never any stress or abuse of that cable once screwed down - in a good position

When I did my scooter pack of 16 cells I used thinner wire but doubled up the cable see here: Image
But I don't know if I'd do it that way again, and I definitely wouldn't use copper studs as copper is a soft material. Although I'm not getting a problems apart from after first few trips having to tweak lock nuts, I think I will change them for stainless studs or cherodised studs this winter.

Btw was the 20 ton crimper expensive? Have you posted a photo of it anywhere?



https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Ton-Hydraul ... 0003!US!-1

this one is 10 ton - mines is the same but is 20 - no big deal - 10 tons is more than enough either way - it looks the same as mines -

i feel very good when i crimp with this - then i solder also - never going to come loose :thumbup:
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Scooterman » 05 Nov 2019, 23:48

Coo that's a lot cheaper than I would have expected Expresso :shock: . I would have expected at least a $100 on top of that price.

What's the quality like?
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Scooterman » 05 Nov 2019, 23:55

This looks a bit heath robinson, I've never seen one of these before. Maybe BM has?

Begs the question how hard to you whack it? A big whack or a little whack :hammer

Image



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Battery-Cabl ... SwDyRdpvpu
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 05 Nov 2019, 23:58

its very strong for the cost - i didnt expect it this good either - but its heavy - i have my girls use it while i hold the end in the crimping part till it grabs it good - then they can really work it hard :) i had mines from the start so its over 5 years - cant complain - no way i would feel good with out that crimper first

solder would be in there already before i crimp them - then torch it - and heatshrink - done - doing SB50 are easier - compared to when i have to do the XT90 - more work involved for me and i have to do it myself - tin the wire - tin the XT90 and then joining them - i had an issue last time but i realized it was one of the heating tips i was using - i guess they suck and didnt transfer the heat at all -

took too long - i need to get things done fast - may have to purchase better tips - somehow i lost of my originals which was great -
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Irving » 06 Nov 2019, 00:05

Scooterman wrote:This looks a bit heath robinson, I've never seen one of these before. Maybe BM has?

Begs the question how hard to you whack it? A big whack or a little whack :hammer

Image



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Battery-Cabl ... SwDyRdpvpu


I'd be wary of that. A good crimp requires good all round pressure not a couple of short impacts.
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Burgerman » 06 Nov 2019, 00:11

This looks a bit heath robinson, I've never seen one of these before. Maybe BM has?

Begs the question how hard to you whack it? A big whack or a little whack


Makes no difference how hard you wack it. That flimsy bit of copper they are calling a ring terminal can almost be crushed with your fingers. Certainly can be squashed flat with a very gentle tap with a beer glass. It makes zero difference how hard you hit it, because it just has not got the strength to stay that shape or to compress the joint hard enough. It springs back a little after you hit it. And it moves as you pull the cable, lets oxygen in to resuce the contact resistance, and expands and contracts and softens with the heat that generates under load. Till it fails... Or at least causes problems or gets yanked out or whatever.

So tap it enough to hold it, then solder the thing properly. Then solder it as expresso does. With a turbo lighter (amazon) in literally seconds.

Or get a REAL crimper, that is designed for the type of proper crimp you have, and use that. Te one shown is inconsistent, can cut through the wire, or leave it loose. No good used alone.
On one of these thick wall, or cast terminals, or use only proper crimps with proper tool, that holds the wire outer sheath as well, on small wires. As shown below:
Attachments
5195_600x600.jpg
Anderson 50 terminal, for 12swg
proper.jpg
A real cast thick walled ring terminal that CAN be crimped alone, with the correct tooling.
proper.jpg (5.35 KiB) Viewed 142 times
ring_terminal_7mm_diameter_cable_assembly.jpg
This is a PROPERLY installed crimp for small wires.
If yours looks less well made, less supported, less secure, its because it is...
So solder and heat shrink.
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Burgerman » 06 Nov 2019, 00:12

NOT these things!!!
NO amount of hitting it or crimping it will make a good joint.

They are nasty, cheap, soft, weak, and after you crimp it, I will pull it off. And it will oxydise and fall apart on you or cause issues later on.
SOLDER THESE!!! Then they are fine.
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 06 Nov 2019, 00:33

https://www.waytekwire.com/item/36568/H ... yelet-Lug/

these are good - some of the best i found which are thicker walls than the others and a bit longer also so you can fit a good amount of wire inside - i STILL crimp and solder these -

you can actually double crimp them - one next to the other being they are long enough - i crimp them once
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby terry2 » 06 Nov 2019, 15:55

Burgerman wrote:Search eBay for 6 sqmm marine tinned cable. Its adequate because its all short connections inter cell. You can also use 10, but much stiffer. Def use 10 for battery cables, on 120A rnet or 120A dynamic setups.



Thank you.
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby terry2 » 06 Nov 2019, 16:10

Scooterman wrote:Terry - are your flexible bus bars solid bendy copper or braided?



There are lots of copper plated strips.
At each end they are as stiff as a rock. But about 1 inch in the middle, they can move all directions as the plates are loose.
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Scooterman » 06 Nov 2019, 17:55

Thanks Terry I know what you mean, I remember seeing similar online.
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 08 Nov 2019, 01:18

moving along getting wiring ready for the dumb load -
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Burgerman » 08 Nov 2019, 09:16

Dump. As in a place to dump the energy!
That resetable fuse looks expensive! You dont really need a fuse for that job. Might be better to save for an addon or someplace where its needed.
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Scooterman » 08 Nov 2019, 16:19

Is that a Turnigy or cheapo imitation Expresso?

just joking! :D
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 08 Nov 2019, 18:45

Burgerman wrote:Dump. As in a place to dump the energy!
That resetable fuse looks expensive! You dont really need a fuse for that job. Might be better to save for an addon or someplace where its needed.



the fuse wasnt expensive - and i used it so i can stop the discharge when i feel its enough - i would just hit the breaker - only reason i added it

but the wire end that goes into this dump load - i dont have a small enough ring terminal to make it fit in the small space where the wire needs to go - a 22awg ring for the balance wire is too large - and the wire i used it 8 awg - i am thinking of just using bare wire - stick it in there and screw it down

any other ideas ?
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 08 Nov 2019, 18:47

Scooterman wrote:Is that a Turnigy or cheapo imitation Expresso?

just joking! :D



actually i think your right - the Turnigy was no where to be found - i just picked one from all the rest on Amazon - this wont be used much i dont think - when i finish the pack and charge up - will use this for discharging with dump load and mostly never use it for anything else - and i wont be discharging large packs all the time

i guess i find out how it works - i am assuming it just starts up once its all connected and juice flows thru it - i dont see any on and off buttons - who knows -may not even work when i get around to using it - wont be surprised these days
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Burgerman » 08 Nov 2019, 18:59

but the wire end that goes into this dump load - i dont have a small enough ring terminal to make it fit in the small space where the wire needs to go - a 22awg ring for the balance wire is too large - and the wire i used it 8 awg - i am thinking of just using bare wire - stick it in there and screw it down


I read that 3 times.
It has ceramic block connectors?
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 08 Nov 2019, 19:22

i guess dont know what it actually is - look at my picture above - i would have to unscrew the two screws - and stick bare wire in there - screw it down again - unless i have figure another way - or add a small enough ring terminal at the end which i dont see how that would work because wire is thicker - i would have to connect the fan wires there also together with my wires -

i didnt look it over that well yet - maybe i can unscrew that block and see a better way
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 08 Nov 2019, 19:23

those small openings - i have to stick them in there and screw it back down - i dont see another way other than bare wire - ?
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Burgerman » 08 Nov 2019, 19:30

Yes, thats what they are desighed for. Same cables as the PL8 ones, silicone, and tighten screw. And the fan wires at the same time.
They are going to get hot!

With an anderon on the opposite end.
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 08 Nov 2019, 19:37

right but the cables i used are thicker than the PL 8 12awg - i may have to thin them down to make the fit at the ends -

but if they will get that hot - those thin fan cables going to melt ? they have to be connected there also - i will wrap them around the cable i made and stick them in there screw it down
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Burgerman » 08 Nov 2019, 20:13

Its only 40A, so theres no need for thicker wires.
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Burgerman » 08 Nov 2019, 20:13

Its only 40A, so theres no need for thicker wires.
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 08 Nov 2019, 20:16

its done deal - i made them already - but the small thin wires from the fans - they all go in the same place - they dont get affected at all by the heat ?
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Scooterman » 08 Nov 2019, 20:25

Expresso - Tin the ends of the cable.

Otherwise the screw will chew up fine stranded cable as the screw bites down onto them.

The best block terminals have a small spring steel shim between the screw and cable.

The best rail type are Klippon terminals 'G' or 'top hat' cos the screw pulls up the terminal and it has grip ridges. :geek:
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 08 Nov 2019, 20:29

thanks - i was considering thinning the ends a bit - along with the fan wires connected but not sure if they get too hard then the screw wont hold it down good - if i dont thin it - the strands are very thin -
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Burgerman » 09 Nov 2019, 01:07

Just make a new thin cable. Its easier and better for this job. Or make a 6 inch long adapter or extender bit that is attached permanantly to the dump load.

I am a bit worried that those fans wont blow much through that metalwork. I cut it out on mine.

I never bothered to tin, and the fan wires didnt melt so far in 6 years.
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 09 Nov 2019, 01:44

Maybe I may just do that add short cable
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby expresso » 09 Nov 2019, 03:01

is this worth it -just for the price to see how it works ?

http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... IGHT/GT800
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Re: 200Ah Pack

Postby Burgerman » 09 Nov 2019, 03:44

No. Even if free.
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