Joystick handles

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Re: Joystick handles

Postby Bubbernator » 16 Sep 2020, 02:10

Burgerman wrote:

Thats the main reason people cannot control a chair well, and why they need the manufactuers delayed action unsteerable programming. If you have your hand cupping the side of the controller as a reference point and steer with the finger/thumb you can have the programming configured in a way that makes the chair do *exactly* as told. And if not you just cannot!


I remember when I was learning to fly radio controlled airplanes (several decades ago). My instructor was an older gentleman that had been a fighter pilot in WWII.
One of the first things he told me was that I was holding the radio wrong (thumbs on top of the sticks).
"You'll never have full control that way! Hold them like two pencils."
It felt awkward at first but he was absolutely correct.
I'm sure he's long gone by now, God bless him, but I could hear his voice in my head when I was learning to drive this chair.
:worship
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Re: Joystick handles

Postby Burgerman » 16 Sep 2020, 05:08

In my club theres a big split. Maybe 50/50, heli pilots use your way mostly. Me, and all the older ones primarily planes before helis existed, use thumbs... And after trying your way for around 1 summer I also use thumbs again on my 500 sized 3D helis. Tried a transmitter tray and holding as you say, no chance!

From 8 years old, with home made single channel radio (yes push button! - 1 and hold for right. 2 and hold for left.) in around 1968, to today. Obviously proportional gear since the first fleet/futaba/flight link/mcGregor/Sanwa appeared and the best of the lot stavely radio in the 70s. Till today. All with thumbs. I did competitive pylon racing for 5 years, tons of wildly over powered race engine powered stuff, and pulse jet deltas. Speed was my thing. And not many had throttles. They dont work on open venturis and crancase pressure... When I started my motors up many member packed up and went home in discust! I wasnt popular with the committee minded types. Also turbines on KB70 deltas, and everything else except scale (boring too slow) till today.

My speciality is low! Very fast... All my engines were ducted fan motors, with props. And loads of nitromethane and propylene oxide/low oil and angry. And never the right way up. Or pulse / turbine jets. I fly mode 1 AND thumbs. Theres not many can match me at least when when younger. Although bit slower at 60.

So you may think its better. Theres a few oldies like me that will definitely give you an argument! Although you might well outfly me with a heli... I doubt you would with aircraft. Especially stupidly fast stuff.

The point isnt how you hold the stick, as long as you do. Its having a stable reference point for your finger or thumb or both. Your hand must rest on the RC transmitter, or the joystick. Thats the important part. Esp a chair as YOU are moving, accelerating, and bouncing along on what passes for our streets.
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Re: Joystick handles

Postby Jayde1976 » 16 Sep 2020, 15:00

Burgerman wrote:
i know users who dont hold it at all - and cup there hand over it on top - everyone is different


Thats the main reason people cannot control a chair well, and why they need the manufactuers delayed action unsteerable programming. If you have your hand cupping the side of the controller as a reference point and steer with the finger/thumb you can have the programming configured in a way that makes the chair do *exactly* as told. And if not you just cannot! Yes that may not be possible for everyone. Esp if the joystick is too low and too outboard. And if you dont have good normal hand function. But it is the only way it works properly with linear real time proportional programming.

I hold mine with just finger and thumb as I find it easier, as i tried to hold with hand on top and just dont go straight.... I got my joystick angled so it lays to one side instead of straight up,this was for my comfort, and doing both means mine goes where I want it with no delayed action from any programming needed.. I got a golf ball as well, a pretty one which is yellow with smiley face,but got a love heart one as well... I havent yet to find a golf ball which has a soft centre of stuff in it but then mine are just cheap balls and most proberbly no good for golf.
IMG_5218.jpg
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Re: Joystick handles

Postby Burgerman » 16 Sep 2020, 15:44

Jayde you may be surprized to know that unless you have already attacked your control system with an OEM programmer, removed a few walls, and changed 4 of the turn acceleration and deceleration parameters that your chair (all chairs) can steer and be far more accurate and direct and more linear to drive. Its much more relaxing and driving becomes basically transparent and no planing or thought needed. Like using using a sharpened pencil to draw instead of a wax crayon or a paintbrush. The difference is enormous.

Provided that:
a) YOU have normal hand control and skills.
b)Your joystick is positioned correctly so that you cup the body of the joystick pod and steer with finger and thumb in comfort. As easily as you would sign a letter with the joystick. Like a pencil.

If not, both of the above then you wouldnt be able to use the new direct programming that I am talking about. And the chair would feel too jerky or sudden for you to control smoothly. Theres no way to explain the difference in words. But it isnt minor. Like looking through a filthy window or an open window. You have to *do it* and test. Then you will see yourself how dismal it all was previously. If you have never experienced the difference then you will never understand what I am trying to explain.

The other issue is that this difference is so great, and so important that I personally would never buy any chair that I do not have, or cannot get an OEM level programmer for. Period. Its a total game changer. And that may rule out yours. Is that a pride controller or a curtis instraments one? Pride is a no go. In most cases. No OEM tool accessible. So screwed. So are newer invacare systems...
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Re: Joystick handles

Postby expresso » 16 Sep 2020, 18:42

i will try mounting it back to the original setup before i added spacers to raise up - in the stock position its a bit lower which may help now to use it with my fingers instead of gripping it with my hand - i removed the spacers i added when new - - i am sure i will be adjusting it a few more times and add the mushroom knob to see what that does -

i never considered a ball style - i would be curious to feel how that works - if nothing else works - i may try it if i get a hold of one - its what ever works the person - i may have to angle my joystick also now -
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Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 180Ah LifePo4
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Re: Joystick handles

Postby rustyjames » 16 Sep 2020, 21:27

Expresso--I think I have a ball style one laying around if you want to try one out. It's off a Qtronix Pilot Plus module and has a 1/4" hole.
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Re: Joystick handles

Postby expresso » 16 Sep 2020, 22:52

rustyjames wrote:Expresso--I think I have a ball style one laying around if you want to try one out. It's off a Qtronix Pilot Plus module and has a 1/4" hole.



thanks rusty - let me see what i can do first before trying a ball - i have to get a few original screws which i must have lost years ago - only have one - need another to hold it down secure - will try the mushroom when i get it - and see how that works out - being colder now - i wont be riding much now - but if i have to go out for something i can test it then -

i keep it in mind - :thumbup:
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Quickie S646se - 150Ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 180Ah LifePo4
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Re: Joystick handles

Postby Burgerman » 16 Sep 2020, 23:54

Balls. :D
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Re: Joystick handles

Postby Jayde1976 » 17 Sep 2020, 12:33

Burgerman wrote:Jayde you may be surprized to know that unless you have already attacked your control system with an OEM programmer, removed a few walls, and changed 4 of the turn acceleration and deceleration parameters that your chair (all chairs) can steer and be far more accurate and direct and more linear to drive. Its much more relaxing and driving becomes basically transparent and no planing or thought needed. Like using using a sharpened pencil to draw instead of a wax crayon or a paintbrush. The difference is enormous.

Provided that:
a) YOU have normal hand control and skills.
b)Your joystick is positioned correctly so that you cup the body of the joystick pod and steer with finger and thumb in comfort. As easily as you would sign a letter with the joystick. Like a pencil.


yes i had the local guy program it to how i wanted, but only in 2 settings so i got a slow indoor/restaurant setting which has a small delay in it to stop it getting knocked and send me flying(thats happened before) but on the "Sport" one i had named the decelration and accel parameters are 0 so when i move the joystick its instant, yes its a quantum stretto edge3, i have a dealer programmer so can do a few things like i got the lock out for the ilevel so it will go faster in the raised position and removed the time out bit so it dont switch off after a few mins. think there is a few things my programmer wont do but its only a dealer one but can still change the names of each setting.plus i got the wireless over the internet i can always do if i get stuck with it. does what i want it to do and goes along my local unmade paths but not as extreame as some will do...
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Re: Joystick handles

Postby Burgerman » 17 Sep 2020, 17:26

yes i had the local guy program it to how i wanted,

Nope. You would need a guy with a OEM programmer that knew what he was doing. Those are like rocking horse shit. Dealer programming tools are basically a waste of time.

And on pride stuff not actually possible. OEM tools are claimed to be non existent. And in reality kept under lock and key at the manufacturers base. So you really do not have it programmed to steer properly. The difference is huge. And you dont know this because you have no opportunity to find out yet.
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