Permobil OBP

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Permobil OBP

Postby Es* » 13 Jan 2021, 16:23

Hi all,

I understand that Permobil is widely hated here, and I understand why, but I have good reasons for both having one and not hating it. Indeed, some aspects of it I love enough I'm disinclined towards anything else. That said, I'd like OBP to work.

I have an r-net OEM dongle on loan. Whatever I do, the darned thing doesn't want to help me out! I am getting screens saying 'OBP error' when I try to enter any kind of programming, including when the dongle is plugged in. When I tried to upload, via a windows machine, a file which included OBP being enabled the entire chair wouldn't operate and I had "Unknown Module 3, Module Error, 1201". Reuploading the original file and it was back to normal.

All ideas welcome. If they involve a windows machine, it'll be a while until I can try them as I only have a mac and lockdown...

Ta!
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby Burgerman » 13 Jan 2021, 17:15

Well now you are starting to understand why many here avoid permobil. Its not that anyone hates them. Just extremely difficult and twice the price! You will never get a permobil OEM programmer for PC and this is what you will need.

I dont know for sure what the problem is in your case specifically because I cant see and test for myself. Permobil isnt really R-Net but a hybrid R-net and permobil one off system at least on reasonably new chairs. But be aware that unlike other chair manufacturers, that use normal generic R-Net parts, permobil do a lot of trickery... They use joysticks that have specific firmware that may not allow OBP at all, or even cut down versions with smaller screen and buttons missing that need their own programming software. Even OEM level programming or Dealer level via a PC may not work, or may restrict you to certain options. Unless you use the correct permobil version of the OEM software which you cannot get. And instead of using the R-Net stability, gyro, seating and lighting modules, they roll their own hence the errors you see with generic R-net software.

I am not 100% sure this is you actual problem here. As I cannot check it out myself. But I would be fairly confident that this is the case. Although nothing works properly on a mac and I am surprised that you got it working at all! But if it correctly uploads the origial file that is probably not the issue.

For example. Here is a R-Net joystick compared to a similar joystick used on many permobil chairs. Its built by the same company specifically for them in a cheaper form. Less bright smaller screen, 2 buttons missing. Generic R-Net software may not allow OBP to be enabled or it may not be possible at all.

IMG_20200930_194954_4.jpg


And you will find that they also use their own seating, lighting, gyro, stability modules that are not R-Net compatible. These are all called modules. And this may be what your R-Net programmer doesent understand.
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby Es* » 13 Jan 2021, 17:28

I understand fully, and I understood before, but the ideal and the real world are often so far from each other ...

Thanks for that pic. I actually use an Omni and a smaller/lighter joystick, rather than the pod like in your picture. I'm pretty sure it's the exact one from P+G/Curtiss as it arrived with all their paperwork. It does have the 'ICS' permobil specific thing in it too, though. I'll cross my fingers someone else comes along with an idea...
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby Burgerman » 13 Jan 2021, 17:33

I dont think they can. I dont have a permobil. Only going by what others have said. But the only way appears to be a permobil OEM programmer. Nothing else can understand the permobil bits properly at least on most permobil chairs. And OBP may even then still be unavailable. Depends on the permobil firmware. It may be in your case with your joystick. And even they deny there is one. The tech certainly wont have one. And wouldnt understand it if he did. They are parts swappers. They tie you down.

So it appears you need the OEM permobil specific PC software and OEM dongle.
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby swalker » 13 Jan 2021, 22:00

I purchased a used chair with an Omni device. Like you, I thought it would be great to enable On Board Programming (OBP).

I only have a dealer level dongle and was not able to enable OBP with that. Thanks to this forum I know how to hack the OEM settings using my dealer level dongle. That did not allow me to enable OBP either.

I asked my local dealer about enabling OBP and they confessed to only having a dealer level dongle as well. They said it was not possible to enable OBP, regardless of dongle, though. I would not put too much stock in that opinion, because those folks don't seem to know much at all about programming.

I don't know if it is possible to enable a Permobil Omni to use OBP, even with an OEM dongle, but I gave up on it.

I do all my programming through my dealer level dongle, which works well for me. I don't need to change programming very often, so it is not too much of a problem to connect the dongle and laptop to the chair when the need arises.

Steve
Permobil F5 Corpus 3G
Permobil C500s VS
Permobil C500 Corpus 3G
Permobil C350 Corpus 3G
Magic Mobility X4 with 176 Ah LiFePO4
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby woodygb » 13 Jan 2021, 23:12

These MIGHT help.
Reprogramming OBP menu v2.zip
(142.4 KiB) Downloaded 12 times

Programming a replacement Power Module v3.zip
(571.71 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

Release Log Rnet Programmer Dealer.zip
(92.2 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby woodygb » 13 Jan 2021, 23:23

Permobil dealer software is available.
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby Burgerman » 14 Jan 2021, 03:31

Yes but Dealer doesent allow you to set OBP which is what he wants to do... I cant think of a way to do it.
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby expresso » 14 Jan 2021, 05:33

years back i dont recall what someone wanted done on there chair - i figured no problem - i can do that easily - i connect my dongle and did what i was suppose to do -

then some other functions didnt work - that i didnt touch at all - it was a pain - i put back the original file and all worked as before

i left it alone - F3 chair -
Quickie P222se - 60Ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150Ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 180Ah LifePo4
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby Burgerman » 14 Jan 2021, 08:46

So again, permobil stuff = problem.

To me, having OEM or better access is the number one parameter - the very first and most important thing - when looking for a new chair. Having tested and tried a great number of chairs over the last 23 years. NONE of them steered properly and all had at least some walls or other issues set or some other problem that couldnt be sorted with DEALER level tools. So Manufacturer/service/OEM access is my No 1 parameter. If I dont own, or cannot get, an OEM or better programmer FIRST then thats simply a dealbreaker. A chair I simply cannot live with at any cost. :thumbdown:

Theres around 5 or so other important parameters for me too. But all the rest are mechanical/physical things. And some can be adapted or "fixed" after the event. So choose very carefully. Obviously this rules out all permobil chairs at a stroke. And all the Pride Quantum chairs too. And any chair using a weirdo setup, like many myra chairs. And anything that is using a bespoke system...

Any manufacturer that uses stock R-Net stuff, no problem. Or Curtis instrument stuff. Any manufacturer that uses older stuff like PGDT Pilot Plus, or Dynamic DX or DX2, or even the LiNX systems (theres now a fix at a reasonable cost for at least todays version) are all OK. But of all system, generic R-Net is prefered. And fortunately used by many manufacturers inc sunrise/quickie that my own 2 latest chairs use.
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby CharlieDavis » 16 Jan 2021, 20:41

Es* wrote:Hi all,

I understand that Permobil is widely hated here, and I understand why, but I have good reasons for both having one and not hating it. Indeed, some aspects of it I love enough I'm disinclined towards anything else. That said, I'd like OBP to work.

I have an r-net OEM dongle on loan. Whatever I do, the darned thing doesn't want to help me out! I am getting screens saying 'OBP error' when I try to enter any kind of programming, including when the dongle is plugged in. When I tried to upload, via a windows machine, a file which included OBP being enabled the entire chair wouldn't operate and I had "Unknown Module 3, Module Error, 1201". Reuploading the original file and it was back to normal.

All ideas welcome. If they involve a windows machine, it'll be a while until I can try them as I only have a mac and lockdown...

Ta!


send me a PM - not sure if im allowed to say anything about how to get your chair going or not. hard to tell around here anymore! lol
but enabling OBP is pretty easy with any dongle
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby Burgerman » 16 Jan 2021, 22:09

If theres a way, and its possible please enlighten us. Here! Thats what we are trying to find out!

I dont have a permobil. But everyone here says they can't do it. So why hide it?
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby expresso » 16 Jan 2021, 22:15

maybe its hidden in a different location from the drop down screen on the left ? compared to Generic R- net -

i dont see why that would be such a big deal to not let a user get to OBP - most chairs come with that enabled from new - at least mines did - Sunrise chair
Quickie P222se - 60Ah ADD ON
Quickie S646se - 150Ah LifePo4
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair
Bounder Plus - 180Ah LifePo4
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby Burgerman » 16 Jan 2021, 22:23

Because permobil think they are the only ones safe to touch programming. After all we are all weak minded! Its comes with disability...
Maybe you can enable it. I cant test that because I dont have one. I did think about unplugging the other modules so it lets you load the setting to only the power module and joystick. You can tell the program to enable OBP as well as to IGNORE missing modules. So if the problematic permobil modules were unplugged first what would it do?

Dont blame me if it all goes pear shaped though! I dont think you can brick it. Just reload the original if it doesent work.

Also did you read woodys links? download/file.php?id=14763 - set controller personality?
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby CharlieDavis » 17 Jan 2021, 02:45

just the standard workaround to get OEM access using the sunrise medical software
(use permobil software to generate the OEM data file first)

and its in the settings list under controls --> global
(see image)

It is windows only unfortunately...

If you're getting an error when trying to enter OBP even with the dongle attached, then something else it going on..
how new is the chair? also what model is it?
I'd try this method, and see if you can enter OBP this way, WITHOUT the dongle attached though

BTW the "unknown module" is your ESP/Gyro module. it shoes up as "unknown" on EVERY chair they make.
(they're not implementing it as intended by PG drives, so its not 'technically connected' on the R-net side of things)
Attachments
OBP.JPG
OBP OMNI.JPG
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Re: Permobil OBP

Postby Burgerman » 17 Jan 2021, 02:59

But thats what he is already doing? As far as we can tell. Thats how we all turn on OBP for every brand chair.
The problem is that the chair will not let him write the modified file back to the chair. We know that the OEM software will not write the file. But the DEALER level permobil or generic should. But he gets a module error when writing. And then no OBP working.

It doesent recognise the gyro/stability or seating modules because they are not r-net. They are permobils own grown version.
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