PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

[Burgerman]

Pride have all the stuff that makes our powerchairs usable well hidden and locked down. And I doubt you will get hold. They can if you find a GOOD dealer (service provider) of which I suspect there are a couple out of rather a lot, get pride to do a OEM level update. This is shipped as a firmware FIX rather than just using a lower level programmer.

But they pretend its not, and its going to be impossible to get them to set all the required parameters effectively to OFF. And to set turn rates etc at low speed accordingly. The only way to do this is by using a system that has a OEM available programmer, from one of the big manufacturers. And thats not easy or cheap...

For this reason alone I wouldnt buy ANY chair with a locked down OEM base setting or the lack of REAL programming tools such as the OEM level tools we really need. So Pride/Quantum and their Q tronix or whatever its called (built by a third party like Curtiss) is a no go.

Thanks for the pictures/info.

[woodygb]

EXCELLENT!

I was working on a CANBUS...

KPG4 can OK.JPG (63.26 KiB) Viewed 16989 times

[woodygb]

Jeez ..that chip is OTT...

MC9S12DP256B: 16-Bit Microcontroller
The MC9S12DP256B Microcontroller unit (MCU) is a 16-bit device composed of standard on-chip peripherals including a 16-bit central processing unit ( MC9S12DT256C, MC9S12DJ256C, MC9S12DG256C, MC9S12DT256B MC9S12DJ256B MC9S12DG256B MC9S12A256B ), 256K bytes of Flash EEPROM 12.0K bytes of RAM, 4.0K bytes of EEPROM 2 asynchronous serial Communications Interfaces (SCI), three serial peripheral Interfaces (SPI), an 8 channel IC/OC enhanced capture Timer two 8-channel, 10-bit Analog-to-digital converters (ADC), an 8-channel pulse-width Modulator (PWM), 89 Discrete digital I/O channels (Port A, Port B, Port K and Port E), 20 Discrete digital I/O lines with interrupt and wakeup capability, five CAN 2.0 A, B software compatible modules (MSCAN12), and an Inter-IC Bus ...................

[woodygb]

Now if I could only find the Pride/Quantum OEM Software to go along with it.

...Try the Curtis OEM .

[Burgerman]

Pride most likely have a custom firmware that will stop that working in an attempt to stop us getting access... After all we are not worthy!

But if it works, and OEM level software doesent need a dongle etc we are in business.

[woodygb]

Driver for the CANUSB

http://www.sontheim-industrie-elektroni ... enter.html

REGISTER and download MT-API

[woodygb]

John in Canada recently ordered one of these...

USB-CAN USB to CAN Bus Converter Adapter + USB Cable Support 64-bit Win7

via Ebay ...hopefully that will prove to be a cheaper alternative to the high priced Curtis version.

[ex-Gooserider]

Don't want to be a wet blanket on the idea of reverse engineering any of these cables / software, etc. but I am wondering if that microprocessor in the cable that Twinpanther has, and that Woody has ID'd could represent a major problem for the effort?

From what Woody has shown, it looks like going from USB or Serial to CANbus isn't that complex, certainly not enough to justify needing a reasonably powerful CPU in the cable... Makes me wonder what it's doing there?

If it's not needed for doing protocol conversion, then the only thing I can think of is for it to be doing some sort of "security" function, like possibly either encryption, or some sort of owner validation / authorization (i.e. like a dongle) and control over what settings can be changed... If so, it might make the reverse engineering VERY difficult...

(I could see them even defeating "snooping" efforts by having some sort of encryption key in the processor that would hash the controller serial number (or some other ID value) with the internal key, and thus write different information to the EEPROM for each controller even when setting the same values... It would certainly be nasty to beat that one...)

ex-Gooserider

[woodygb]

Hopefully Twinpanther can get his lead working with the CANUSB drivers I've sent him.
Then it might be possible to get/glean some answers to the "I wonder" questions.

I'd really like a controller to play at interfacing to .... trying via the Web is frustrating.

[woodygb]

http://www.sontheim-industrie-elektroni ... ENG_V3.pdf

I've seen line drawing depictions of both these can usb interfaces in Curtis/ Q logic pdf references.

[Twinpanther]

Well, this is where I stand at the moment:
On the CAN When I plug into USB I get a single green flash in USB Status.
I plug into chair with chair power off and no changes. Turn Chair on and still nothing.
When I click "Blink On" (Left box in first img below.)under either CANUSB1 or 2 I get green flashing USB Status and Amber Flashing CAN Status and CAN Data.
When I open 1314 PCPS and hit F2 to "connect" I get the error in the first img.
When I click OK I get a small connecting box then almost immediately the error box in the second img.
The third img is just to show that the driver seems to be working properly.

Results.jpg (248.51 KiB) Viewed 16146 times

[woodygb]

Do you actually start the MT-API?

I'd have thought that you should just plug in the USB interface ...and allow the 1314 prog to initiate coms.

[woodygb]

All you probably needed from the zip file was the USBCAN interface drivers ...the rest is more than likely superflous to the 1314 programming.

driver.jpg (2.18 KiB) Viewed 16120 times

You've run the drivers and your USB Port is working.

So turn off the program that is running MT_API and just see if the 1314 will detect the lead and initiate communication.

[gologen]

When I open 1314 PCPS and hit F2 to "connect" I get the error in the first img.
When I click OK I get a small connecting box then almost immediately the error box in the second img.
[/attachment]

Yes, it's right.
1314 PCPS works in CAN-bus only with devices company I+ME ACTIA GmbH.(Correct me if i'm wrong).
This is what I have defined. When you trying to connect to CAN-bus it start looking for installed devices of this company. By default it uses communication protocol (*.dll) for NetPorty II. After, program send query to devices "Who are you?". If no answer, program trying to reset device. If no answer again, you get Error message.

[woodygb]

A copy of the lastest 1314 dealer software should have the needed dll files ...

The MT-API download from here ... http://www.sontheim-industrie-elektroni ... enter.html
actually lists some curtis dll files ..if you un zip the MTI cab files.

I'm hoping to get hold of the latest software ..but I really need ALL the cables and a controller to play properly...trying to help via the web is very difficult.

[Seajays]

Woody, I can send you a joystick and my 5 pin cable end if you can locate a Controller ( Pride CTLDC 1466)

[woodygb]

Cheers John,

I'll keep that in mind....

I've presently got my eye on some later 1314 software .... I'm wondering if the dealer files from this will integrate into the earlier OEM software.

Trying to "see" what Twinpanther/Paul is doing and suggest settings/things to change/prod ... without actually knowing what should happen...is long winded and fraught with miss understandings.

PLUS it's frightening if your controller suddenly throws a fit!

[woodygb]

1314 PCPS works in CAN-bus only with devices company I+ME ACTIA GmbH.(Correct me if i'm wrong).

MT-API files

curt1.jpg (23.1 KiB) Viewed 16031 times

The latest 1314 (version 4) appears to use a CANFOX lead.



USB and RS232

[gologen]

The MT-API download from here ... http://www.sontheim-industrie-elektroni ... enter.html
actually lists some curtis dll files ..if you un zip the MTI cab files.

It's link to API and drivers for Sontheim's devices. And will not work with any other devices. If you have some Sontheim's device you can try.

I don't have idea how much it cost, but original CAN/USB INTERFACE H-1111-068 price $750. It's a little bit expensive
http://www.southwestmedical.com/replacement-parts/pride-mobility/quantum-6000z-hd/accessory-lap-belts-tools/recommended-field-repair-tools/hand-held-programmer-pc-programming-disc-w-cable/q-logic-curtis-electronics .
So need alternative.

John in Canada recently ordered one of these...

USB-CAN USB to CAN Bus Converter Adapter + USB Cable Support 64-bit Win7

via Ebay ...hopefully that will prove to be a cheaper alternative to the high priced Curtis version.

I guess, this is can be alternative. Price ~ $50.

When my son got new wheelchair Quantum Q-Logic Q6000Z with terrible settings, I started looking for programmator. For people with disability difficult to find $750.
I bought at ebay similar USB to CAN Bus Converter for ~$50.

USB_CAN.jpg (70.54 KiB) Viewed 16009 times

I wrote new dll for connection 1314 PCPS with this device and i got some results.

[woodygb]

Care to share the results and what 1314 version did you use?

[woodygb]

I don't have idea how much it cost, but original CAN/USB INTERFACE H-1111-068 price $750. It's a little bit expensive

TOTAL rip off ..I was quoted £125 ( trade ) direct from Curtis
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1256&start=20&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p16423

[woodygb]

It's link to API and drivers for Sontheim's devices. And will not work with any other devices. If you have some Sontheim's device you can try

.

Twinpanther's interface is Sontheim.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1965&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=80#p26122

[gologen]

Of course.
I use

Version.JPG (33.59 KiB) Viewed 14916 times

woodygb, if you have a newest could you point me. Because some parameters shows as "?"

1314PC.JPG (91.26 KiB) Viewed 14929 times

I got communication to controller. I can change parameters (OEM version). I did not try rewrite firmware. I have Win Vista32 on my laptop and i did not try any other system.
I'm not at home now, so i can show only parameter file.

[woodygb]

Wonderful!!.

Seems that your well ahead of me ..and I'd request that you take over in helping with the Q-logic programming problem.

I was hoping to obtain a 1314 dealer version...and use the files with the OEM prog.

[gologen]

I can post my dll file, if it help some body. But i gues, another device from ebay, you show picture, more powerfull. It has 32 bit processor. Mine only 8 bit. And when program is running CPU usage almost 100%.
I was trying to contact seller at ebay about dll for this CAN converter and some info about input commands, but did not get nothing.

Who bought this device - what you get with: dll, manual, etc.?

I had with mine manual for dll on Chinese.

[Seajays]

gologin, I bought one of these to try. I have not got it yet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/320825471823?ss ... 009wt_1398

[gologen]

Yes i'm talking about this.

I'm interesting what you will get with.

[woodygb]

On behalf of Twinpanther who has the linked to Curtis / Sontheim CAN interface ...what should he do ...what files does he need ... to get coms working with the 1314 software?

I have the download from Sonheim should it help you to help "us".

[gologen]

I'm not big specialist in programming. It was my first dll-programming.

Sorry. I don't know Sontheim CAN interface.
I used manual for I+ME LevelX Driver Library (1314 PCPS uses it's API) to find all output functions and translated it to input functions for my device's dll.
Do you have some manuals from Sontheim?

[Twinpanther]

On behalf of Twinpanther who has the linked to Curtis / Sontheim CAN interface ...what should he do ...what files does he need ... to get coms working with the 1314 software?

I think that is my problem. I can get the driver to show "working" but can't seem to get it to connect. No lights on the CAN or anything when I try to connect to the 1314 software. The only time I get any lights are when I use the API test program to make em flash. I've gone back, deleted/reinstalled and started from scratch to see if it made a difference and it did not. Same errors as before. Almost seems worth trying to get Southern to sell me the dealer software just to get the exact drivers I need. Almost...

I have a Pride repair guy coming by today to fix a hydraulic/spring issue so I'm tucking away my toys for now and maybe pick his brain while he is here with hypotheticals.

Also, if it matters I'm running Windows 7 64bit and a PC powerful enough to push about anything. Maybe I'll try to run the 1314 in XP mode to see if it makes a difference. Doubt it but when you've tried everything else, lol.