PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[expresso]

Ok i will remember that when i start it - thanks for that link - i was just about to place an order on amazon for other items i need - i can add that on it now -

Once i really start to make this Cable - whats the best way to approach it -

Start with the power wires first - one on each side - or just start on one side power wire - and work your way across to the smaller pins and the other power wire ?

i am going to try to even heatshrink each wire - i am shooting for the Moon - but hey - if i can swing it - its done right once and thats it -

the other thing for me is - i have to make sure those balance wires are in the correct pins - which i dont which they are - looking at the Female end which will be on the chair - one large pin will be not used - and one smaller pin not used

i am assuming the pins being used have to be in a certain order ?

[Scollard]

Here is where I am in my build.

The 2 batteries:

Soldering the Combo Sub-D. Expresso, notice the helping hands.

Interior of the Combo Sub-D. Expresso, see the heat shrink on the wires. Also not that I only shrunk half of the large heat shrink. This is because I'm going to insert the wire mesh underneath before shrinking the rest.

[Scollard]

Here is the completed connector.

Here is the completed cable. This is the chair-side cable. Going to make the charger side next.

[expresso]

Very nice BM - i like that - i will try - dont expect it to be perfect first time - may not look as good - but as long as it works - i be happy - the Chair side cable -
how long do you usually make that 6 feet total ?

i hope the all my wires fit in the case i got - seems tight -

i will try the Charger side of the cable first after i practice a little to solder with any wire - i got those helping hands also - just got them -

what chair will that pack go in ?

that case is different from the others you used - any reason why ? better fit - more room etc,

[Burgerman]

Not me!
Scollard, very nice scollard. But I would have used a metal shell considering all the effort it takes. But looks good.

Once i really start to make this Cable - whats the best way to approach it -

Once you spend a week, figuring out how soldering works, and what size irons, and how to best do everything, tinning wires, and flkux, temperatures, and all it will be obvious to you. Did you watch the videos. Dont rush, plan... That type of heatshrink with glue on the inside helps hold the mesh sleeve. At the charger end. And some self amalgamating tape inside the clamp on the connector helps on the chair end.

Personally I did the 9 small balance wires first. Each one will need to be in the right order and best to do a computer drawing...

Then I moved from a 10 Watt small iron to a 100 watt sloghtly bigger one for the bigger wires. If you are practised non of it takes long. My cables (I made 4) took well under an hour to complete. If you take 2 days, and then need to cut it off and start again I wouldnt be surprised. Dont let that bother you. Its all learning. Once you get it, its for life.

[Scollard]

Expresso, cable length was 3'.

Shell is metal, nickel plated zinc. I'm going to rubberize it with some spray rubber later on. That will make it essentially waterproof.

I soldered my 10 balance wires first. Then I did the 2 power wires. As I said. I soldered everything with my 40 watt iron.

Expresso, you want to label your balance wires before you solder them on the chair side cable. On the charger side the balance wires will be numbered according to the white connector that goes into the PL8. You need to make sure the pins line up between the 2 connectors. Before you seal up all your connectors we will check them with a multimeter.

[expresso]

oh my bad - i though it was BM - its you Scollard - very nice - - thats your pack - - cable came out very good - - ok so balance wires first - -

i will get back to you to ask about that making sure its in the correct pins before i solder them - dont want to mess that up - - your almost done there -

i was thinking of using some of the black graffing tape i got - to cover the whole case etc, - its like electrical tape but better - not shiny finish and sticks good -

rubber spray sounds good -

[Scollard]

There is this product called Plasti Dip. There are some guys here in the Porsche club that color their rims with this stuff. It's incredibly durable. IT will give you a nice flat rubberized surface.

[expresso]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006S ... l_huc_item


someone told me about this a while back - i never looked it over - was thinking its a good way to change color on your chair - then you can peel it off if you dont like it or get bored -

i would think its alot of work to do the chair nicely or really to take it off - seems like work - i seen videos showing someone doing a car - in wish list for later

[expresso]

Scollard - would you spray the whole case of the charge cable - over the end where the wires come out also - that would be ok ?

just cover the front - pins etc, - - another thing - is there a DB 25 cover you will use - ? like the dust covers for the andersons ? i would want to cover it when not and only remove it for charging

[shirley_hkg]

Doing the SUB-D connector is definitely a hard job for novice. I can't do that nicely, poor wrist.

If you are not eager to take credit, take it to a radio shop, where they can do it without effort.

[Scollard]

Scollard - would you spray the whole case of the charge cable - over the end where the wires come out also - that would be ok ?

just cover the front - pins etc, - - another thing - is there a DB 25 cover you will use - ? like the dust covers for the andersons ? i would want to cover it when not and only remove it for charging

It's up to you I suppose. I'm just going to spray the DB25 housing to make it waterproof. I live in Seattle and quite often I am out on my scooter in the rain.

The actual Combo Sub-D is waterproof to begin with.

[Burgerman]

At 24v and at 3.6v per cell, it wouldn't much matter if you did it under water. Rain doesn't conduct enough to matter. If its mounted under the seat pan near the front edge where mine are, then it wont get wet regardless.

So covering it all in that goo seems a bit unnecessary and messy + difficult to work on or fix later on. And it seals any water or condensation that does get in so that it never dries out.

[flagman1776]

One possiblity for increasing weather resistance is to mount a piece of rubber or plastic film above the plug so that it draped down over it as a shield... lift up to plug in... but catch any stray splash.

[Burgerman]

Lets look at it sensibly.

In the UK the mains electricity is 230V AC. Max peak voltage is 360V since its a sine wave. If I take a RUNNING 2kw electric fan heater, still plugged into the wall, and lower it by its cable into a bucket of tap water or rain water, nothing bad happens. It continues to run, and slowly heats up the water. If you look very close there are a very few tiny bubbles because of the chlorine in tap water, and the fan rotates slowly. as the water causes a lot of drag.

As I lift it out, by its cable and still running, the water and dirt run away and mostly stay in the bucket. The heater emits a puff of steam, and the fan speeds up again. All working normally but now clean. I used to clean the dust from my heater this way!

Now I am not saying it doesent matter, but we are talking about 24V here. In a connector that will not get wet anyway. Tucked away under a seat high off the ground. Is the connector on your joystick covered up? No. Because it doesent matter. Dirt does. But its also quite hard to see how you will get dirt there, in enough quantity that it could ever make a difference. Even the one on my vans wheel arch, blasted with water, road muck every winter, works great after 9 years... Uncovered and coated in road crud.

Front wheel arch. When it was clean...

So dont worry!

[flagman1776]

[expresso]

Doing the SUB-D connector is definitely a hard job for novice. I can't do that nicely, poor wrist.

If you are not eager to take credit, take it to a radio shop, where they can do it without effort.

i will have no choice - i would have to do it - NYC is not what everyone thinks or is used to - Radio shop - haha - good luck finding one here - those days are over - and maybe never was in the City Manhattan area - maybe 30 years ago in the other parts of the city - Bronx - etc, we had many stores - you can find anything - Radio shack used to be great for this - many local little mom and pop stores - fix TVS - Radios - Electronics etc, - NO more - no one does that anymore -

NYC Is for making money - not for working - no ones wants to work - just sell you what they have at 10x the price and thats it - IF you find someone or someplace that actually does something - thats custom work - even more money -

i have to do it myself - will practice with the larger 8 awg wire tonight to solder two together - i have enough of that wire - and i have some 16 awg also i can play with -

i was looking at the 36 inch balance cable - and i cant see anything written on those wires - with or without my glasses - its small !!! red and black wire of course - we know that - but the others i will need to figure out the wiring -

about the Sub D - i worry about that when i am done - i may just wrap black graffing tape around it - and use a dust cover i found at digikey - if i knew i would have purchased it already - - this was never discussed before - so everyone who made this cable is not using anything to cover the ends ?

on my chair i am not sure i can hide it enough to keep it away from rain dust etc, -

this is what i have found - http://www.digikey.com/product-search/e ... &vendor=37

will have to call them to ask how good it stays put - and which do i need - both male and female versions - for the chair side - it has to be the Male version - the charger side is the female dust cover

[Burgerman]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=1240#p77766

read!

[expresso]

Lets look at it sensibly.

In the UK the mains electricity is 230V AC. Max peak voltage is 360V since its a sine wave. If I take a RUNNING 2kw electric fan heater, still plugged into the wall, and lower it by its cable into a bucket of tap water or rain water, nothing bad happens. It continues to run, and slowly heats up the water. If you look very close there are a very few tiny bubbles because of the chlorine in tap water, and the fan rotates slowly. as the water causes a lot of drag.

As I lift it out, by its cable and still running, the water and dirt run away and mostly stay in the bucket. The heater emits a puff of steam, and the fan speeds up again. All working normally but now clean. I used to clean the dust from my heater this way!

Now I am not saying it doesent matter, but we are talking about 24V here. In a connector that will not get wet anyway. Tucked away under a seat high off the ground. Is the connector on your joystick covered up? No. Because it doesent matter. Dirt does. But its also quite hard to see how you will get dirt there, in enough quantity that it could ever make a difference. Even the one on my vans wheel arch, blasted with water, road muck every winter, works great after 9 years... Uncovered and coated in road crud.

Front wheel arch. When it was clean...


Ok - but still to keep dirt out - my chairs get dusty dirty when i ride - in dirt sections sometimes - i think a dust cover at the very least - - but about the joystick not being affected by Water - well i disagree - because many users here get there joystick wet from the rain and then have issues - till it drys - i always use a small plastic bag and cover the joystick if out in the rain - everyone one i know does it also - either they were affected or just follow what every else does -

but i do know a few for sure who got stuck or had issues with the chair joystick if it got wet - i am not talking about a dizzle - i mean wet - raining and its not covered at all - - i will still look into a DB 25 dust cover - at the very least for the chair end which will be exposed to dirt - and then why not get the other one anyway - cant hurt - when not in use

So dont worry!

[expresso]

https://www.vpi.us/d-sub-covers/db25-cover-female-973

[Burgerman]

Yes but then I would need to keep taking it off and finding it again later... Would be lost in a week!

And theres no need.

[Burgerman]

Quick test of a 2 year old 12Ah Headway. After around 100 cycles.

Its still got the same 12.3Ah (123xx mAh) it had when new. This is part of my lawnmower!

And this shows why hobby chargers are so useful. I test batteries regularly. This shows you EXACTLY what the battery capacity now is. Its still at 100% capacity.
This was at the 10A rate (a fraction less than 1C or 1 hour discharge.) From 100% charged to 2.5V CV and to 250mA termination.
If you discharge a lead battery in 1 hour down to 10V you get under half of its capacity when new so it would read under 6Ah... And after 2 years about 3...

[Burgerman]

And here is my 1 year old quadcopter battery. Its 4S and supposed to be 5.5Ah.

As you can see Cel 3 (of 4) -- the yellow one -- isnt well! This is already empty at under 4Ah..

I have cut off the graphsomehow but you can still see the value of testing. My Quadcopter would fall from the sky if I was expecting 15 mins of flight time...

[Scollard]

BM, so is that a LiPo discharge curve. Not as flat as a LiFePO4?

[Burgerman]

No. Starts at 4.2V and drops as you see here. When flying my quadcopter I make sure its down by 3.7V per cell. After that it drops off a cliff. And there's almost zero drop under load. They don't last either. Used hard in planes etc 60 to 90 cycles and they go in the bin. But cheap and exciting! Boom...

[Scollard]

All my R/C stuff is gas. Plane, buggy, airboat. Although I've been too busy in the last 20 years to do any playing. I'm going to get back into it now that I've retired. And maybe some model rail.

[ex-Gooserider]

What a shame, wasting perfectly good explosions on a bin... I'd think it would be more fun to 'minimize the disposal hazard' by seeing how big a boom one could make... I'm visualizing a guillotine type gizmo that drops the pieces in a bucket of water....

ex-Gooserider

No. Starts at 4.2V and drops as you see here. When flying my quadcopter I make sure its down by 3.7V per cell. After that it drops off a cliff. And there's almost zero drop under load. They don't last either. Used hard in planes etc 60 to 90 cycles and they go in the bin. But cheap and exciting! Boom...

[Burgerman]

I used to blow them up by overcharging, or just fully charge and drop onto the concrete but that didn't always work. A nail, and a bit of bluetack, and a long broom handle to tap it always works well!

After many batteries and explosion you get a bit bored of it and it smells horrible.

[Scollard]

I have the two batteries all hooked together with the balance wires all attached.

I got the charger-side cable done today. Charge mains are not hooked up yet, I will do that when I actually install the batteries. In the meantime I'm using the Anderson to charge and the balance wires are all running through the Combo Sub-D. Just taking a look at the cells now on the Hyperion.

[Burgerman]

The cells always look pretty much the same at anything under 97 poercent charged. So you cant tell much. Once you charge, then the cells will go all over the place and will look horrendously unbalanced over the last tiny bit. It can take a long time (potentially days) to balance at the top. So to speed up the first charge you really need to charge the lowest groups, individually or drag the high ones down with a resistance like a car headlamp bulb or something. Or you may be some t i m e ...

And you need self amalgamating tape for the end of that sleeve mesh.