S646se - Full LITHIUM Pack Project - First Attempt

[expresso]

another question - Once i remove the LEAD from my chair - i will leave it empty with nothing in there till i am done with this pack - is it OK To leave my chair with nothing connected to it - no batteries at all - for the time till i get the pack done -

lets say its stills empty for a month or two months - any problems with that ? once i connect battery power again - it should be just fine - work the same etc, programming ? all functions -

[Scollard]

Yes, just like the add-on.

Do you have a soft-blow hammer or a rubber mallet?

I used something like this to knock my blocks together.

http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-30812-Doub ... 0NYN313_tt

Not an actually hammer.

[expresso]

yes i got a 3 hammer kit - for 10 dollars - has 3 sizes - rubber ends - i have used it - but sometimes i find the steel hammer - i have a smaller one - with a towel over the area - works because of the weight -

i will continue that tomorrow - i have 2 Rows connected - the bottom side i am doing first - i am going to give it a mist spray of silicone also - just to see if that helps


also - can i use the marine grade rings i have already with heatshrink on it for the wires to connect the top 8 Cells - ?

or should i use the Copper lugs i have - but they are 8 AWG - and i can use it - but with 12 AWG wire - its a big small - or i can double the wire end and use the copper lug

either one is ok ?

[Scollard]

The ring terminals for the balance wires are going to be too small. Or did you get some for 10-12 AWG wire? If not, you should get some marine terminals for the 10-12 AWG wire.

[expresso]

i have those for the balance wires - - the wires for the 8 Cells on top - if i end up using 12 AWG wire - i have more than enough of these

but i have to thicken the wire http://www.amazon.com/Install-Bay-Coppe ... ge_o04_s00

and these - for 12 - 10 awg also - http://www.amazon.com/Ring-Terminal-Mar ... ge_o07_s00

either one of these should be fine ?

[expresso]

The ring terminals for the balance wires are going to be too small. Or did you get some for 10-12 AWG wire? If not, you should get some marine terminals for the 10-12 AWG wire.

i have 12 AWG wire - enough to make the cables for the top 8 Cells - i have some 10 AWG also -

the lugs i have are for 8 AWG really - but i can make it work if i have to -

i also have the marine rings for all the balance wires - and also for the 10 and 12 AWG wires -

if i used the Marine rings - i can just crimp the wire and heatshrink it -

if i have to use the copper lugs for 8 AWG then i have to crimp and solder - -

if its ok to use the Marine rings - i may use those instead

[Scollard]

Yes, just use the marine rings for the 10-12 AWG wires. It will work just fine. You will need 4 long ones to run from the bottom of the pack and 5 short ones for the top. That means you will need a minimum of 18 ring terminals to add the 7th row on top.

[expresso]

oh - i didnt think that many wires from the top cells only -

ok i will check - i have to get more i think - will get the marine kind with heatshrink on it already - for 10 to 12 awg wire -

i have about 10 feet red and 10 black of 12 awg wire -

sorry 18 rings - just 9 wires

[expresso]

Ok i finally got the bottom made for the 90ah / 105ah pack -

I tried doing it your way BM - connect 4 blocks making one long row - and then adding to it - that was harder for me - and when i got most started - the very end one i couldnt get started - - i figured out what works for me best is this way
which may seem harder at first but it works - easier for me to handle one block at a time - rather than a whole row - the picture shows how i found it to work easier - the way i add the one block makes a difference also

i get one end started just a bit so it holds it - the other end is lifted up - then i use the hammer to tap it down and it grabs and works perfect that way - i then bang it down all the way - and do the next one - it may sound harder or more work for you - but for me - alot better - i still dont like making them - mines arrived different colors also - all orange some lighter and darker etc, - i figure its not the same batch when made - as long as it works i am good -

[expresso]

i arranged all the cells in correct order - i actually forget to test fit the orange blocks in the tray first before adding the cells - it fits - but wanted to see if any room down the sides for wiring - i really dont think there is - but when i do the top part of blocks - i can use that to check it in the tray - i checked it when i have 5 rows all snapped in place and just one row left and it fits like a glove - which is a bump in the road when i get there if doing the 105ah pack - if doing 90ah - its fine -

i got a rough measure of the total size as a 105ah - i get about 9 1/2 inches high - i will double check that once i get the top row in place - blocks on and then remeasure it - i feel if i can manage to raise my divider up a bit as i plan to try doing next week or once i get my friend to help me with that - i would have the pack connected by then and can Fit Test it - if it fits with 105ah - then i have to work on that Tray - maybe cut one side of the Lip to make room for the wiring -

[Burgerman]

I dont see how that can fit.

[expresso]

extra row on top if i can make it fit - i am not sure where i wire the top row to - when i am done making the 90ah pack - i will post a pic - Scollard - if you can use the pic i will post when done and draw lines to mark exactly where i would connect the top 8 cells to the 90ah pack - i want to be safe and do it correctly when connecting - i already know what can happen if connected wrong -

this is assuming 105ah is going to fit and i feel good about how it fits etc, - if not - then 90ah - and leave the tray alone -

[expresso]

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interesting how i just got this Email right when in am building my pack - trying to scare me off you think ?
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[expresso]

I dont see how that can fit.

what do you mean ? you mean the 105ah pack or the 90ah ?

[Burgerman]

I mean the one in the pics...

[expresso]

the 90ah pack fits perfect - in the battery tray - that way is the closest to plug and play as you can get i think - - i will start the top blocks and add them - connect the Cells on top - then wait for a friend to flip it over for me - connect the bottom cells - wait again to flip it back and in the tray - to test fit it - once i get the chair ready with the divided etc, -

[expresso]

I mean the one in the pics...

which pics - which cells are you referring too ? top 8 Cells for extra Row on top of the 90ah pack - ?

[Burgerman]

Dunno. How many are you making now?

[expresso]

ok these are 15ah cells - the perfect fit in the tray one big pack is 90ah - that will fit no problem - the extra 8 cells on top - if it fits in my chair space - then its 105ah - i am leaving that option open to try -

will have to work on my chair divider to raise it up a bit - i have an idea for it - i have to do that first - once i get the divider up most i can - then i will test fit the 90ah pack in the chair and slide the extra 8 on top - just to see if it fits in the chair before deciding which way to proceed -

if the 105ah pack fits - if i am comfortable how it fits - etc, - i can then try to add the top 8 Cells to make it 105ah - if i dont like how it fits in the chair - or it dosnt fit - or what ever - i go back to just the Tray 90ah - pack - thats 100% fit with ease - and room to work - which i like -

[Scollard]

Looking good. Now you just need to get the top on. That will probably be the most difficult.

I also put my blocks together either 1 or 2 at a time. I found that easier than an entire row.

When you put the battery in the chair will the negative row or the positive row be at the back of the chair?

[expresso]

i got the whole top done - i am done for today - yes i found it so much easier now since i figure how best it works for me - one block at a time - get one end started and tap down the rest - all falls in place -

i can fit the pack either way - Neg going in first or Pos - now that you said that - i will double check how the main anderson from the chair is best angled so i dont wire it where i have to force it to bend - will do that when i work on the divider -

have to wait for help so next week sometime - another thing - if i remove the batteries next week from my chair to work on the divider etc, - is it OK to leave them off the chair - leaving the chair empty till i finish the pack -

is there any reason why this is not a good idea ? does the PM or chair need to have power to it to keep the settings or anything that may come to mind ? the slow part is now to finish it - i need to figure out the wiring and what i need - i need to make them once i do figure out how long etc,

and i have to wait for someone to flip it each time i need to work on it - top or bottom - etc, lets just say - the chair is empty with no power or batteries connected to it for 2 months - i am giving myself extra time - is that a problem -

Can i do that and then just slide the pack in when i am done - connect and go ?

[expresso]

just a though - Can you mix and match the cells in a pack ? example - the Cells are 15ah - 90ah pack - - the top 8 Cells if added are 15ah also and make it 105ah pack -

what if they dont work out for some reason but if using 12ah Cells for the top 8 - making it 102ah pack - any reason that is a problem ? can they be mixed that way - different Cells size - 12ah and 15ah -

just thinking because the 12ah cells are smaller in size - - i dont have any extra 12ah Cells - would have to purchase if anything - and wait again - but just curious if thats something that can be done if one wanted to -

[Scollard]

Looking good. When you get the top put on, have someone put the pack on its edge with the red row at the bottom. That way we should be able to wire it all up without having to flip it over.

Or you might want to do the busbars first. then set it on edge.

[expresso]

I am going to add the buss bars first on top tomorrow - have my friend flip it on Thursday or friday - when ever he is free - then i finish the buss bars on the bottom - then wait for him to flip it again - - but will get the chair ready - remove the batteries fix the divider first - then i can have him flip it and put in the tray - and in the chair to test fit it - - if i can get that done with him waiting a while - so he can take it back out and then lay it on the side -

i have to wait to last to do wiring or add the extra cells - in case i cant add them - then just finish it up as a 90ah - so i think if all goes well - another week - before i can continue to proceed -- wiring is last and i have to make them first - i am making a two part cable wiring for it -

this is the part i hate - i cant do it - and have to rely on others all the time for heavy stuff like this - its fine if i can find someone - but when i cant - i have to just wait or hire someone to do it - thats not good - i dont mind if i hire someone to help and finish it up period - but to just come and flip it - and leave - thats silly - but last resort -

the girls i have that work for me - they wont be able to do it - two or 3 of them - i know that for sure - sometimes i feel i am holding them stable instead them holding me i joke around that my PCA needs a PCA for herself -

[expresso]

Ok i tested if i can fit a 12 AWG wire down the side into the tray - it looks as if it can be done - but only one side - its tight - if it has to be done on both sides of the pack - wires going down to the bottom - that cant be done unless i cut one side of the tray off and then its free to do what ever -

I am hoping Scollard you tell me its only one side that needs the wires even one side - i pulled the lip to bend it more for room -

[Burgerman]

When done, I challenge you to do full distance in a day. 105Ah will double+ your range. If you use the addon as well, you should get 3.5x the range or more.

[Scollard]

Yep. Only on one side. Will put the balance wires on the opposite side but that should be no problem as they are thin. 12 AWG will be just fine to attach the 7th row.

Black or red row at the back of the chair?

Looking at the chair from the back, what side does the Anderson connector go on and what side the charger cable?

You need to make up 4 cables for the bottom of the pack. Make them all 16-18 inches long and you will cut them to the proper length when you install the 7th row. These 4 cables need a ring terminal on one side only so far. You will install them on the 1,3,5,7 rows of the busbars on the bottom of the pack. Remember the bottom rows are labeled 1,3,5,7 and the top is 5 rows labeled 0,2,4,6,8. Just like the add on.

[expresso]

i dont know yet what color is going in the chair first - black or red - i need to first take the chair apart - battery out - divider raised up if i can and will look at the chairs Main Connector to see how it sits - so i can make my cable to snap in with out have to turn to force it fit

right now - i dont know which end is going in first -

the Chairs Main anderson is on the left side - - i was first thinking of putting everything on the left side also - charge cable and balance wires etc, plus the anderson going to the chair main power

and on the right side - add the Extra cable with Anderson for the ADD ON if i want to use one day -

its best to share the sides where all the wiring will go ? so its not all on the same side and under the same Cell bolt ?

i can add the charge cable on either side - but to move forward i first have to figure out what which Cells are going in first -

to keep it the same way as the ADD ON - that would mean the Black Cells going in first -

i guess either way should be fine - i can give you a better idea once i get in the chair - wont be till next week sometime -

[Burgerman]

Just be really really sure that every bolt is tight. Theres a lot, and one loose one causes havoc and is hard to fix later. Check both ends at least 3 times, mark with a marker pen as you go. Every time I see a problem it is inevitably a loose bolt...

[expresso]

from this measure it looks like it is going to fit - i measure this at 9 inches high but its not in the tray which will raise it a bit higher once inside the tray also -

and if i manage to raise the divider even a half a inch - i am thinking its going to be fine at 105ah -