Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Colin uk » 01 Nov 2020, 01:08

I have to second all the replies Burgerman said.

You seem to have been scared away from mid drive chairs - and it's true, some of them are junk. But it sounds like you're likely going to get a none custom built chair - somewhat off the shelf. With that said your also likely to get a RWD chair where your too far forward - if you 100% want RWD, try and find something that can keep you weight back. You see the thing with the Mid chairs is, the drive wheels have good traction - all your weight is on them. They feel a bit worrying because they're more like unicycle. LOL what? Maybe a bad analogy. But heres the thing, the other 4 wheels are like stabilisers. That's all they do. They articulate to allow the chair to handle uneven terrain and just stop it tipping. The fast ones often go around corners on 5 wheels. The inside front will lift in the air as the rear outside squats into the turn. They typically offer really good traction.

However... You might just not like how they feel. Or how they feel a bit 'wobbly'. The best 'more extreme' ones are larger which causes issues indoors. The 4 corners are usually wide and long, regardless that they turn on the spot, they have a lot of swing - a corner is going to wack something in a tight spot. SOME are much more compact, but then also less extreme.
Check this out if the v6 is to bighttps://www.magicmobility.com.au/wheelchairs/ the 73 v6 is shorter, the v4 might be your thing... but you could do with testing some chairs if you have any big dealers near you. They're expensive but if your talking 15 years and not wanting to go custom build - I can't help but think you're talking about your environment, and your experience... and they sound like your chair is not good. But you want another one.

Your right about FWD, the industry is obsessed with FWD. It's mostly your RWD in reverse, but their typically longer and the rear casters get in the way more than RWD front casters do AND you can't see them. IE RWD you look where you go, you point, you shoot, your done. FWD you always have to account for the rear swing, hitting a wall, table, chair you can't see it, your always judging it. The other thing is FWD when your going up a ramp, you might have to go up it backwards especially if it's wet or slippy. The front wheels are trying to pull you up the ramp and they can't typically because there's now too much weight at the rear! banghead

Your toy hauler is really cool, but I don't consider that ramp to be steep at all. I would happily go down that forward unaided in any RWD chair I've owned.

IF invacare are they only chair you can easily get a hold of you might want to try and get a test on a TDX.

It looks like you have a MPJ+ Joystick - fyi they're not gears, they're just different profiles that change the parameters of the joystick, for example profile 1 might have a max speed of 30%, but you turn the speed pot down and it'll run at 10% but the max is 30, and profile 3 might have a max of 95% and the turtle makes it 70%. profile 4 won't give you any more traction than any other setting, but it will help you apply the power more gently which might spinning the tires by being to heavy on the power. Personally Every chair I have is on max, always.

As for beaches you might be surprised what we can get away with because our weight is a big advantage. If you can get your weight moved a bit better - the front casters plowing in is a big issue. the rear just tried to drive them into the ground. On sand it helps to have a feel of the chair, as soon as the front starts biting in you can usually turn out of it before it's too late.
Here's some beach action with some basic RWD's.... If you get a chair setup A BIT better, you can get away with a lot more.
wd1.jpg

IMAG0122.JPG

Below you can see my tracks in the sand, I've come from the grass hill straight ahead with a basic RWD chair
wd2.jpg
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby swalker » 01 Nov 2020, 01:08

I have found that 1 chair does not allow me to do all that I want. So, I have a pretty compact chair for really tight spaces, a standard chair (Permobil F5) for my main wheelchair, and a Magic Mobility X4 for my more adventurous outdoor puruits.

The Magic Mobility X4 is the old version of their 4 wheel drive wheelchair. It has been replaced in their lineup by the X8.

Here I am on a snowshoe/cross country ski trail in the X4. It is a magnificent wheelchair for these kinds of activities. I have been deep in the backcountry of Yellowstone National park in that wheelchair and have done many backcountry trails elsewhere in it. It provides a lot of freedom for me. But, it would do as my only chair.

The F5 is very capable and I really enjoy it. I have been deep into the backcountry with it as well, but that is a LOT harder to do. It is front wheel drive.

Steve
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Colin uk » 01 Nov 2020, 01:21

Returning back to your snowy and wild environments and 'bad' mid chairs.

Take a look at these short demo's.

I wouldn't not come off a curb angled in a RWD chair like these can.

youtu.be/b3RqKJK47lg

If I tried to turn my casters over a hump like this on any of my RWD or FWD's I'd encounter a lot of wheel spin, I wouldn't have the weight on my drives like this does my casters would bite in much harder.

youtu.be/_KBpCuDsG4A

I do plenty of grass, gravel, stones. But no way could I traverse these bigger rocks... look how easily it does it.

youtu.be/gW0vVozgDJY

Not all mid's are useless if that's all the dealers can offer you I wouldn't write it off too fast as.. your chair seems far from ideal.
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Moosh89 » 01 Nov 2020, 02:37

I'm leaning more toward purchasing a chair and having it modified. I'd like to stick with Invacare "Storm" series, but I will start looking at other RWD models

I'm still tempted to shy away from any air filled wheels, simply because I don't want to worry about getting low somewhere. I'm used to hard tires and if I had better seat position and better suspension, I'd feel a lot smoother. I see the Storm Torque starts at $7,500 CAD on invacare.ca so, as burgerman says it's not inflated, even if I start picking components to build it from the factory or shopping elsewhere for other parts.

They have a store called GoldenMobility in Saskatoon and there's a few "MediChair" stores dotted around nearby cities but I think they're more like dealers, rather than a shop/"garage" where they wrench on chairs. But I know GoldenMobility works on vehicles as we've taken our van there for lift servicing, so maybe?.

I'll start making a list for an "everyday chair" feature-set. I'm having fun dreaming up alternate use chairs now that I know that big, scary "$21,000!!" price-tag is not actually the case. I can see myself having a 4x4 chair for outdoorsing at some point!

I know as well that I'm VERY interested in a light/compact "travel" powerchair that can be lifted easily in and out of the back of Mom's SUV. We've looked at some, just catalogue shopping, not actually demoing. The only thing I worry about for one of those is constructing a seat similar to what I have in this chair as it's the only chair I can comfortably sit in, support-wise. If it can have even manual tilt, that would be really nice as well, as I'm used to being tilted back when I'm set in or taken out.

I'm fortunate that my Mom is able to transfer me by herself without the use of a lift. We know a lot of people find it odd, but it works well for us. My brothers can transfer me too, or even carry me up or down stairs. I don't feel comfortable anymore with my Dad trying. He's 65 years old and stands 6'4 and a full foot taller than Mom so to him, I'm too low. He also is very nervous about holding me so he does it weird hahaha. My brothers are all 5'11-6'3 but they're also in their physical "prime" and can emulate how Mom cradles me for support. The reason I mention transfers in such detail is due to tire width and Mom's ability to reach over the side of my chair. I'm sure we can get away with a bit wider tires, but for instance a Track-Chair "width" would be too wide for her to get me in or out easily without hurting me or herself.
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby steves1977uk » 01 Nov 2020, 12:47

Welcome aboard Moosh! :wave:

My experience with solid tyres have been very poor, simply because when it's wet they slip and slide all over the place especially going downhill! :fencing I have air filled on my chairs with some OXO tyre sealant in them and rarely get punctures these days. Also when you buy tyres make sure you get 4-ply ones as these are stronger and less likely to puncture. :thumbup:

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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Moosh89 » 01 Nov 2020, 19:34

Thanks for the welcome!

Sometimes sliding can be fun lol. A few years back we walked over to the outdoor skating rink one winter and my ex-brother-in-law was pretending not to know how to skate. My Mom and sister were laughing at him because he wanted to hang onto my chair and be pulled around the ice, when suddenly he burst into long, powerful strides and was pushing me in and out of spins lol czy

I've been browsing other models of RWD chairs available in Canada:

Quickie Q500 H:
http://sunrisemedical.ca/power-wheelcha ... eel/q500-h

- Not crazy about the very back wheels always being on the ground. It also adds length to the base which I don't want.
- It has a lot of nice features tho

Quickie S-646:
http://sunrisemedical.ca/power-wheelcha ... s-6-series

- The very back wheels are off the ground, but I still wonder about situations where I need to be "bumped up" manually over a curb and these wheels possibly preventing that.
- The batteries sliding out for easy access is a huge bonus. With my current Arrow, the chair has to be disassembled to get to the batteries. On my last Arrow, they were easy to get out for situations of taking the batteries out to easier lift the chair up or down stairs or in and out of the back of a pickup. Also I want to consider air travel and trying to find/include assembly instructions for my current chair for airport staff to disassemble/assemble for flight gives me major anxiety as they prefer to remove the batteries to fly.
- Wondering if I can get seat elevation as well as tilt?

Honourable mention:
Quickie P-222-SE:
http://sunrisemedical.ca/power-wheelcha ... e-p-222-se

- This is a COOL chair! I love that the seat frame can detach from the base and manual wheels can be attached. I do have a manual backup chair that's a "tilt-in-space", but I need to get my seat refitted so it's currently acting as a shelf in the bathroom :oops: :lol: . I can see this chair being detached and then tucked into the back of Mom's "Journey" SUV as well.
- It can get tilt, but no word on elevation
- It's super fast
- A big "detractor" is the fixed front riggings on this particular version. I've seen videos of swing-away, removable riggings on what must be older models.


And then of course, my beloved "Storm"

Invacare Storm Series "Torque" 3G:
http://www.invacare.ca/cgi-bin/imhqprd/ ... atOID=null

- I'm basically "used to" this chair already as I'd imagine it's pretty similar to my Arrow.
- It's got a shorter base
- I know it can have tilt AND elevation
- It's got a respectable speed, maybe if modified it could (safely?) go a little quicker?
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Burgerman » 01 Nov 2020, 20:07

The problem you are going to have, if this actually bothers you, is that it is likely to come with a control system that you cannot get access to an oem level programmer. To me, that would rule out that chair straight off my list. That is the no. 1 parameter to me.

Why? Because I am a control freak. I want my chairs to steer properly, and allow me to fine tune 101 parameters. If it comes with a modern controller, the new LiNX system, I wouldnt want it even if it was free. Again, your mileage may vary. Compromises...

Quicker needs different motors unless you fit lithium. And that allows a small say 1mph gain, if you have R-Net as its OEM level rogrammer allosy you to increase the motor voltage to match the new battery.
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Moosh89 » 01 Nov 2020, 20:12

Burgerman wrote:The problem you are going to have, if this actually bothers you, is that it is likely to come with a control system that you cannot get access to an oem level programmer. To me, that would rule out that chair straight off my list. That is the no. 1 parameter to me.

Why? Because I am a control freak. I want my chairs to steer properly, and allow me to fine tune 101 parameters. If it comes with a modern controller, the new LiNX system, I wouldnt want it even if it was free. Again, your mileage may vary. Compromises...

Quicker needs different motors unless you fit lithium. And that allows a small say 1mph gain, if you have R-Net as its OEM level rogrammer allosy you to increase the motor voltage to match the new battery.



Which chair does this apply to?
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Burgerman » 01 Nov 2020, 20:15

Anything modern/invacare.

You need to avoid LiNX control systems. Dynamic is owned by invacare now so this is their new go to system. Its effectively locked to even the techs. OEM level programming isnt possible, so you are limited to what a dealer can do for you. Which isnt much and isnt easy to achieve.

Older invacare used all different controllers. You can easily access OEM tools for Dynamics previous systems.

Anything modern, Pride Quantum. Same problem.

Some permobils use r-net which IS OK as a programmer can be found at some expense. But in the case of permobil it may or may not be possible to reprogram part of it. But seating and gyro modules etc are their own. So not easy to reprogram. So best avoid permobil...

Anything else with R-Net or any older systems are OK.
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Moosh89 » 01 Nov 2020, 20:32

I see.

Yes, controller functions matter to me. Overall I'm happy with the performance of 2nd gear/"Outdoor" mode on my Arrow, and I do wish that 3rd can be tinkered to better match the transitions in speed and stopping/turning.

Controller "form" also matters. I currently have the "Mk6i" controller with colour screen. My last chair had the "MkIV A" controller with no screen and I preferred it because it didn't have the screen sticking out so far and the power switch was on the inside end of the controller and never got caught on my clothing like the Mk6 switch does.

Invacare-Model-1065944E-MKIV-A-Wheelchair-Joystick.jpg
Invacare-Model-1065944E-MKIV-A-Wheelchair-Joystick.jpg (76.72 KiB) Viewed 4363 times


Invacare_MK6i-MPJC_Color_Display_Joystick_1164361_CMPJ_CMPJM6_clean_600x600_crop_center.jpg




Screens are cool and all, but my neck also has some atrophy and I can't tip my head down to see the controller screen anyway. I can tip my head down and toward my left, but not to my right and I won't learn to drive left handed. If I could get a smaller controller for my driving hand on my right and an independent screen to mount/view on my left, that would be ideal.
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Burgerman » 01 Nov 2020, 20:59

Yes, controller functions matter to me. Overall I'm happy with the performance of 2nd gear/"Outdoor" mode on my Arrow, and I do wish that 3rd can be tinkered to better match the transitions in speed and stopping/turning.


Once a single preset (they are not gears) is correctly programmed, you will likely find as I do that having more than one profile is not needed.

Basically you set up all the parameters so that it steers properly at full speed. And at minimum speed. Then set up ONE profile that allows super slow, to max speed. The max speeds are programmable. The slow speed too. So say set it for .5mph to 6mph. And speed is than selectable on the screen with the speed paddle. Now no other profiles are required. And if you set the steering correctly, it simply goes where its told. Much more accurately and more intuitively than yours does now.

With R-Net you can have as many as 8 profiles if you want. (I never figured out what to do wth the other 7!!!) All programmed completely differently. Any of them can have totally different parameters. And there are simple small joysticks, and ones with screens, and one with a very bright colour large screen. The screen is iseful mostly if you have say 4 or 5 seating functions. It allows you to see what you are selecting etc. It also displays distance travelled, speed, and other useful stuff. Including On Board Programming. So you can do all the same stuff that a dealer can, directly on your joystick built in. But that requires it to be ENABLED by an OEM programmer.
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Burgerman » 01 Nov 2020, 21:12

R-Net system https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Prod ... ions/R-net

Any of these parts fit together.
The advanced joystick does Infra red, and optionally BT as well. The big joystick with screen. So apart from OBP and being able to see many things as you select seating options etc, speed, distance, it can also wotk your PC mouse, laptop mouse, iPad etc, and control your TV, video, Sattelite system, and thins like envoiromental controls. So it can do heating, lights, plug sockets etc.

But there are also small LED joysticks too.

And lots of other things! Take time and have a read.
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Moosh89 » 01 Nov 2020, 23:28

So, basically I really want an R-Net setup... 8-) :lol:

I think that link just ticked off all my electronics boxes :o

A joystick like this, mounted on my right armrest to drive the chair
https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Prod ... t-Joystick
r-net_jsm_compact.jpg

But if it will fit, I'd want to have this knob/skirt as that's what I'm used to for 20+ years
s-l1600.jpg


And over on my left side armrest where I can see, this interface
https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Prod ... -Interface
Omni-2-Cable-and-Input.png
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Burgerman » 02 Nov 2020, 00:12

Yes. If you read all the links in this thread, starting at the top. For a few days or more then all these options and possibilities and what is possible will begin to make some sense. But then the real issue is figuring out how to get them, in a chair you want, with the correct bunch of compromises that best works for you. At a price that you can afford. Its like a 1000 piece puzzle.
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby steves1977uk » 02 Nov 2020, 00:41

Moosh, the R-net set up is the best right now. I'm having it on my new Dietz chair and will also be retrofitting my older chair with the R-net system since I have 4 complete setups. :mrgreen:

Steve
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Moosh89 » 02 Nov 2020, 01:09

Thank you, Burgerman for the wealth of information. You're right, my head is swimming in thoughts and daydreams and so much to read and absorb.

Steve, YES I'm definitely switching to R-Net for my next chair. I don't think SaskAbilities would take too kindly to me converting this chair. Would be foolish anyway as I don't "own" this chair.

What may happen in the future, is provided this chair doesn't turn into a "clunker" in the next few years (1-3) maybe SaskAbilities will sell us this chair (2010 Invacare Storm Arrow) as it likely will not go to another patient. My last '97 Arrow, they scrapped even though it still ran well. The tilt had gone in it. We asked them if we could keep it but they said "No" lol. So either I keep this chair, free from it's bondage of "basic-bitch"ness and start upgrading it OR I go for a new chair, whichever of the 3 or 4 I listed earlier can be outfitted with features I'd want (Compromises, as Burgerman says)

For chair features:

- It needs to have tilt
- I'd love seat elevation as well, but I need to know the "cons" to decide for certain (will it make me sit too high to fit into my van? *provided my seat is positioned properly, which apparently as I currently sit, I am wildly "wrong" ex: too high and too far forward)
- I'm certain I should stick with solid tires. I'd be very interested in wider tires (say 4"?) and I'd like to try more knobby tires. With adequate suspension all around, I'm not worried about "rough" riding compared to air-filled tires. Will wider, solid tires all around ride better on snow/sand/loose stones?
- 6mph max speed as a minimum. I'd love to have 8mph max speed.
- Good power/torque so I can "dick around" and push/pull stuff with my chair indoors or outdoors, or help out more with curb jumping, steep inclines
- Easy battery access is very important! I want to be able to go on a few vacations and go see long-distanced friends, so the easier the chair can be made safe for flying, the better.
- On the topic of batteries: Batteries that go a long distance and have longevity. The batteries I have now don't seem to hold their charge as well as before.
- I'd prefer a center mounted footplate that can be locked in position and fold up when I need to squeeze into a tight space.
- R-Net is basically the answer for my "electronic" desires such as lights, bluetooth, speedometer/distance, etc.
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Burgerman » 02 Nov 2020, 01:21

Lithium batteries are half the mass, approx 5x the range, and will last up to 12 or 15 years. And twice the price. So actually massively cheaper long term. But they are not plug and play, require some DIY and learning.

Speed...
Be careful what you wish for.
4mph HD 4 pole have the best torque.
4mph 2 pole are better for torque than the 6mph 2 pole motors.
6mph 2 pole are the lowest torque normally.
6mph 4 pole are what you want, relatively high torque, best for contrl, ramps, etc as well as longevity and range.
8mph 4 pole are a step too far for most. They give the same sort of torque as the 2 pole 6mph motors. But you are light. So you MAY be OK... They eat batteries faster even indoors too.

Again. Compromises...
And the 6mph 4 pole and the 8mph 4 pole NEED a 120A controller. Not 90, 70, etc. Or they will never give that torque you want.
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Moosh89 » 02 Nov 2020, 01:30

Burgerman wrote:Lithium batteries are half the mass, approx 5x the range, and will last up to 12 or 15 years. And twice the price. So actually massively cheaper long term. But they are not plug and play, require some DIY and learning.

Speed...
Be careful what you wish for.
4mph HD 4 pole have the best torque.
4mph 2 pole are better for torque than the 6mph 2 pole motors.
6mph 2 pole are the lowest torque normally.
6mph 4 pole are what you want, relatively high torque, best for contrl, ramps, etc as well as longevity and range.
8mph 4 pole are a step too far for most. They give the same sort of torque as the 2 pole 6mph motors. But you are light. So you MAY be OK...

Again. Compromises...
And the 6mph 4 pole and the 8mph 4 pole NEED a 120A controller. Not 90, 70, etc. Or they will never give that torque you want.


If Lithium batteries are half the mass, that's a huge selling point right there. 5x the range and their longevity is just amazing bonuses. If I'm adding the weight back with tilt and seat elevation, that's a great trade-off.

For speed, obviously if I had R-Net and could fine-tune various profiles, I'd stick to about 4-6mph for everyday use on one profile, and have another profile fine-tuned to max out at 8mph (at my comfort level for acceleration, stopping, turning, etc.) for that emergen cybackup "GTFO mode" like I'm being chased by an acid-for-blood xenomorph :ak47 :lol: which would be rare.

I don't ever see myself cracking 120 lbs body weight. So I'm "light" :lol:
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby shirley_hkg » 02 Nov 2020, 02:43

Moosh89 wrote:.
- The batteries sliding out for easy access is a huge bonus. With my current Arrow, the chair has to be disassembled to get to the batteries. On my last Arrow, they were easy to get out for situations of taking the batteries out to easier lift the chair up or down stairs or in and out of the back of a pickup.


They just added a steel plate to wrap around from the front to back of the two plastic boxes. Can deposit of it, if you don't need it , and you're back to the good old days



And then of course, my beloved "Storm"
- I'm basically "used to" this chair already as I'd imagine it's pretty similar to my Arrow.
- It's got a shorter base
- I know it can have tilt AND elevation
- It's got a respectable speed, maybe if modified it could (safely?) go a little quicker?


All US version of Invacare have the same H-frame , so they are of the same length, except that you can choose the long wheel-base chair that will be 3" longer .

Also , all models (Arrow ,Ranger , Torque ) are the same thing. It's basically a price strategy/gimmick to me .

Go for GB version and you have decent 7 mph. By swapping to old generation motors , you can go 9 mph , like me. :dance and it don't use the inaccessible LINX too.



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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Moosh89 » 02 Nov 2020, 03:10

shirley_hkg wrote:
Moosh89 wrote:.
- The batteries sliding out for easy access is a huge bonus. With my current Arrow, the chair has to be disassembled to get to the batteries. On my last Arrow, they were easy to get out for situations of taking the batteries out to easier lift the chair up or down stairs or in and out of the back of a pickup.


They just added a steel plate to wrap around from the front to back of the two plastic boxes. Can deposit of it, if you don't need it , and you're back to the good old days



And then of course, my beloved "Storm"
- I'm basically "used to" this chair already as I'd imagine it's pretty similar to my Arrow.
- It's got a shorter base
- I know it can have tilt AND elevation
- It's got a respectable speed, maybe if modified it could (safely?) go a little quicker?


All US version of Invacare have the same H-frame , so they are of the same length, except that you can choose the long wheel-base chair that will be 3" longer .

Also , all models (Arrow ,Ranger , Torque ) are the same thing. It's basically a price strategy/gimmick to me .

Go for GB version and you have decent 7 mph. By swapping to old generation motors , you can go 9 mph , like me. :dance and it don't use the inaccessible LINX too.





Haha awesome, thanks!

So my two clear choices now are:

Invacare Storm Torque with 4-pole motor
Pros
- R-Net friendly
- 8.5mph max
- Tilt AND Lift on it
- Familiarity

Cons
- Would need to add lights
- Modify battery compartment for easier access

Quickie S-646 SE
Pros
- R-Net friendly
- 8.5mph max
- Tilt (I haven't found any examples with tilt AND lift)
- Easy battery access
- Stock lights

Cons
- Potentially the rear casters hindering extreme curb/doorstep jumping/bumping
- Can only order one with pneumatic tires, apparently? (haven't seen any option for solid tires)


Which of these two will easier accept 4" wide tires on the rear?

I can't wait until COVID is over so I can go take a look at these two models (or at least the S-646. I'm pretty familiar with the Storm)
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby shirley_hkg » 02 Nov 2020, 03:17

Moosh89 wrote:Controller "form" also matters. I currently have the "Mk6i" controller with colour screen. My last chair had the "MkIV A" controller with no screen and I preferred it because it didn't have the screen sticking out so far and the power switch was on the inside end of the controller and never got caught on my clothing like the Mk6 switch does.

You have various MK6i joysticks to choose from.
PSF ensembles the MKIV .




Screens are cool and all, but my neck also has some atrophy and I can't tip my head down to see the controller screen anyway. I can tip my head down and toward my left, but not to my right and I won't learn to drive left handed. If I could get a smaller controller for my driving hand on my right and an independent screen to mount/view on my left, that would be ideal.



Itsn't it what you're looking for ?
A compact joystick with seperate display , so you can install them wherever you want
.
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Moosh89 » 02 Nov 2020, 03:22

Prior to seeing the R-Net system (compact joystick + Omni2 interface), yes lol

But since seeing the R-Net system of a compact joystick + Omni2 interface, I definitely would choose this over any Mk6i setups
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Burgerman » 02 Nov 2020, 03:45

And you will need deep pockets. You best be figuring out what the local authorities, insurers, charities, will fund. It may end up better to use eBay, buy used, and swap out a few parts. At which point you will need a OEM programmer too. And theres only 1 place right now thats easy to buy oe of thore. And thats also not cheap...
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby swalker » 02 Nov 2020, 05:59

I have had good luck buying used wheelchairs and then swapping out components as necessary.

In the US, lightly used wheelchairs are incredibly cheap compared to new wheelchairs.

Used chairs I have bought include Permobil C350 (rear wheel drive), Permobil C500 (front wheel drive), Permobil F5 (front wheel drive), and Magic Mobility X4 (4 wheel drive).

The Permobils all came with with RNet controllers, joysticks, etc.

The Magic Mobility came with a DX controller, joystick, etc.

I have not needed to change out the electronics on the wheelchairs, but have made significant changes to the seating components to get the chairs to fit me just right. I have replaced actuators and failed electrical part as necessary and have swapped out several joystick modules to ones that were more to my liking.

Steve
Permobil F5 Corpus 3G
Permobil C500s VS
Permobil C500 Corpus 3G
Permobil C350 Corpus 3G
Magic Mobility X4 with 176 Ah LiFePO4
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby steves1977uk » 02 Nov 2020, 12:28

This is the Dynamic/Invacare LiNX system you want to AVOID on any new chair... https://www.invacare.co.uk/sites/uk/fil ... K_2017.pdf Run away! :fencing :cussing

Also fitting a R-net control system onto an Invacare chair will require some work, e.g. Fitting new battery/motor plugs to fit the R-net PM. Also an OEM programmer is a must for any sensible control setup. :thumbup:

Steve
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Moosh89 » 02 Nov 2020, 18:09

When you guys say "OEM programmer", are you referring to the R-Net PC dongle and a copy of the OEM programming software for PC?

And if I'm shopping around for a dongle, I'm just looking for one kind of R-Net PC dongle? (as in, there's only one kind available to program several different R-Net controllers? ex: 60A, 80A, 120A)


I'm "window shopping" online to get an idea of prices if I buy second hand. I found a 2017 Storm Torque 3 with tilt, lift and powered legs for about $4,000 CAD shipped from Texas to our door in Saskatchewan, Canada. I also found an R-Net 120A controller for $330 CAD shipped. I haven't found any other components yet. Not saying we're going to buy these.

Man, sure beats $7,500 CAD for just a basic Storm Torque 3 BEFORE adding tilt and lift! (plus we can sell the powered legs)
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby steves1977uk » 02 Nov 2020, 18:43

Here's my dongle... :oops: :lol:

RND1.jpg


RND2.jpg


Steve
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Burgerman » 02 Nov 2020, 19:02

To give you some idea of whats possible I just offered and was accepted £4400 for this chair linked below, with a centre power footrest fitted in place of the swing away ones. Its UNUSED and is the highest spec possible. Every expensive option was ticked. Even a faster 10A charger.

It was ordered new, sold in Aug, and returned the same month unused for whatever reason. Maybe too unwell or worse...

A £12K chair (I added up all the stuff on the prescription form), for all intents its literally brand new, for 1/3rd the price. With a 12 month warranty and power centre footrest included.

I used 2/3rds my Power Wheelchair Budget to pay for it 1 hour ago...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUNRISE-QUIC ... Sw0GlfiE7A

SAME seller has many cheaper chairs for sale too.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/SOLUTIONS-MO ... 7675.l2563
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby swalker » 02 Nov 2020, 19:23

Here is what I have paid for used wheelchairs.

In 2015 I purchased a Permobil C500 with power legs, tilt, recline, and seat elevate. It had 26 miles on it and I paid $3,800.

In 2015 I purchased a Magic Mobility X4 with power seat elevate and no other power seat options. It had an unknown number of miles on it, but I estimate about 100 miles based on motor wear. I paid $500 for it. It was not working when I bought it and had no batteries. It was sold without charger. This was a project chair. It now works great and is outfitted with LiFePO4 batteries.

In 2018 I purchased a Permobil C350 with power legs, tilt, and recline. I later added power seat elevate for about $300. It had 32 miles on it and I paid $800.

In 2019 I purchased a Permobil F5 with power legs, tilt, recline, and seat elevate. It had 124 miles on it and I paid $3,500.

I found all of these wheelchairs on craigslist. There was no shipping involved in any of these.

I had to put some money into each wheelchair to get it properly fitted for me, but did not have to replace any wear components.

My track record with used wheelchairs has been better than with new wheelchairs. They have been a lot less trouble, but perhaps I have just been lucky.

Steve
Permobil F5 Corpus 3G
Permobil C500s VS
Permobil C500 Corpus 3G
Permobil C350 Corpus 3G
Magic Mobility X4 with 176 Ah LiFePO4
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Re: Power Wheelchair "Veteran", but "Noob" for features

Postby Burgerman » 02 Nov 2020, 19:27

Here's my dongle... :oops: :lol:

Very very sorry...
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