New Q700R chair from a Wheelchair Budget - with 1k change!

[Burgerman]

Yes. The joystick unit itseld is designed for finger loads. It is sensitive to being hit, forced or other abuse. And it can send its zero position off centre and so the char moves while the stick is central. It can also rin the accurate self centering. So that it covers a too wide area. It can also be just a faulty joystick but thats not very common. Yours appears to show damage on the end of the joystick? So its seen much more force than it was designed to take.

So it needs to be replaced. Not cheap.
You might be able to "fix" this. I have looked inside myself but its a bit fiddly if you have not done this kind of thing bofore.

[Frank]

You might be able to "fix" this. I have looked inside myself but its a bit fiddly if you have not done this kind of thing

How to fix it? Can you please offer some hints? Thank you.

[Frank]

It is sensitive to being hit, forced or other abuse.

I did not abuse it. I only used it properly. It should be more reliable.

[Burgerman]

But the top of the joystick appears damaged? Is that correct? If so how do you damage that without applying force? Maybe just a bad photo.

Take apart, remove joystick unit, remove rubber, check mechanism for damage, bent, no longer centering properly, spring tension etc.

[Burgerman]

Theres also this possibility (connectors) if you have not damaged the thing physically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQrwEItrP_w

[woodygb]

Your description of the problem suggests to me that your joystick needs replacing....

[Burgerman]

That was the opinion I came to. Looking at the picture.

[Frank]

But the top of the joystick appears damaged? Is that correct? If so how do you damage that without applying force? Maybe just a bad photo.

My previous photo may have been of bad quality and misleading. My control box has not been damaged and has only 211 miles on it. We opened the control box to check the inside and found that all the plugs are firmly connected and everything seemed good. So there is nothing else we can do about it. We mounted it and put it back on the chair. At the moment it is working correctly again but I am sure that the joystick error will come back sooner or later. If that happens again I will have to exchange the control box. I believe that the joystick is to blame, can one just buy the joystick and replace instead of buying the whole control box? Thank you for your help.

[Burgerman]

It is POSSIBLE to just change the joystick itself. But they are assembled and calibrated by PG Drives. So in your case its going to be a replacement. Under warranty? I have 3 of those bought on here, ebay, etc. All cost me 125, 150. So its also possible to get them new or as near new as matters cheap if you are patient. But if under warranty why worry?

Do a joystick calibration from the CJSM2 menu in obp. I dont think it does a zero position calibration but its a long time since I looked. But it maps the east west north south travel positions.

That joystick is longer than stock. Which allows easy excess force and more leverage when pushed. Which wont be helping any. Esp if you hold it with your whole hand with your weight on it over bumps.

[Burgerman]

You dont have it near any magnets at any time do you? That can make it drift off centre calibration, and can do it permanantly or just make the chair drive.

[steves1977uk]

I have never had a faulty joystick since the Pilot+ era. One time I had a joystick lodge in the forward position stuck under a quite a heavy table, it didn't break the joystick though! So it must take an enormous amount of force to actually break it physically.

Steve

[Burgerman]

I have. Bent one. When working on big heavy stuff on my knees. And banged one on a table and sent its calibration of centre point out. It quite easy!
I also noticed that a rare earth magnet held close both drives the chair as well as buggering up the centre point calibration.

In both cases I swapped out just the joystick, an if you buy new not cheap. But from an old joystick module its free.

If you just want to buy the joystick, take apart, read the info off it, and try a google search and find a supplier. Details matter.

E.G. https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/geta ... 0_brochure
Note all the variations possible.

And absolute max load is 67lb or 300 newtons. This is with standard length handle. Yours is about twice this doubling levrage so now it takes just 33lb force to damage it. Thats very easy to achieve with tables or even by hand if the weight of your arm rests on it and gets knocked side to side over uneven ground. So be careful. You say you have had 2 of these? And this is a stronger than average joystick. The one you have fitted may be considerably lower.

[Burgerman]

GENERAL NOTES ON FINGER OPERATED JOYSTICKS

MECHANICAL LOADS
Penny+Giles joystick controllers are robust and designed to suit typical applications. System designers should ensure that the
joystick is not positioned where it could be subjected to excessive loads greater than the maximum allowable load stated in the
product specification.

MODIFICATION AND USAGE
Any modification of a joystick by the user is strongly discouraged and will invalidate the warranty and Penny+Giles liability.
The handles supplied with the finger operated controllers are intended for fingertip and not full hand operation.

HANDLES
Must not be replaced with a taller handle otherwise the increased load applied to the joystick may result in permanent
damage.

BEWARE!

[fishinjunky]

GENERAL NOTES ON FINGER OPERATED JOYSTICKS

MECHANICAL LOADS
Penny+Giles joystick controllers are robust and designed to suit typical applications. System designers should ensure that the
joystick is not positioned where it could be subjected to excessive loads greater than the maximum allowable load stated in the
product specification.

MODIFICATION AND USAGE
Any modification of a joystick by the user is strongly discouraged and will invalidate the warranty and Penny+Giles liability.
The handles supplied with the finger operated controllers are intended for fingertip and not full hand operation.

HANDLES
Must not be replaced with a taller handle otherwise the increased load applied to the joystick may result in permanent
damage.

BEWARE!

BM, after reading this I'm concerned about damage my linx joystick because I use a long handle I don't have any hand or finger function my fingers curled so I slide my hand down over the joystick. I've gotten error codes an flashing red light because sometimes if I hit a bump hard my hand jams the joystick to far. Can you guys think of a better solution for the joystick or is this just what we have to work with?

[Burgerman]

PG do a special HD joystick specifically for users that cant use fingers. And use whole hand. Its on a good few rehab chairs prescription form. So not sure about linx.

Page 27, part 250J117

And it uses an industrial joystick. This is what you should have been prescribed if you use whole hand as per the copy and past from PG Drives a few posts above. Do your experts understand or know this? I doubt they know which way up it goes...

[rover220]

Mo vis make the parts to convert to HD joystick.

[fishinjunky]

Mo vis make the parts to convert to HD joystick.

This one? Says it's compatible with linx and r-nt.

https://www.mo-vis.com/products/special ... tick#faq-6

[Burgerman]

Having damaged a couple, and seen how easy it really is. I am very surprised I see so many users with a "ball" or with long handles or users that rest complete hand on the joystick, that manage to not have problems. They are genuinely easy to break, de-calibrate, or bend. Hence the warnings. But it seems all those doing the prescriptions or assessements are unaware of this or the solution to it. Not a cheap fix, but for the sake of safety or reliability probably well worth the extra.

[fishinjunky]

Having damaged a couple, and seen how easy it really is. I am very surprised I see so many users with a "ball" or with long handles or users that rest complete hand on the joystick, that manage to not have problems. They are genuinely easy to break, de-calibrate, or bend. Hence the warnings. But it seems all those doing the prescriptions or assessements are unaware of this or the solution to it. Not a cheap fix, but for the sake of safety or reliability probably well worth the extra.

I'm sure prescribers don't even know a heavy duty joystick exists. They are clueless and never research for anything. It really passes me off I took control of everything they were going to put me in a mwd chair with wrong measurements an just a complete mess they have no clue what they are doing. They should have recommended me r-net with a HD joystick. I feel bad for those that can't take control to get what they need or just don't know any better. Their quality of life could be so much better.

[Burgerman]

This applies across almost every product and service across the world though. The better informed the USER or buyer of anything is then the better off they will be. Look at things like cars, computers, beds, ANYTHING, then the more you know the better. Knowledge is power. And those that have it will win out every time. On housing, education, finances, medical stuff, wheelchairs and everything in life.

[rover220]

The HD option isn't for everyone. It's very heavy and requires nearly 3 times the force input to operate.

[Burgerman]

Yes but its longer too so must be designed that way or it would flop all over and not centre with the weight of a hand/arm otherwise?

Definitely not for me, I use finger and thumb and like fine accurate control. And programming to match. If you need it then you need it. Theres other handles that can fit the industrial HD joysticks. Heres just 2.

[fishinjunky]

The HD option isn't for everyone. It's very heavy and requires nearly 3 times the force input to operate.

do you think that could be somewhat mitigated by adjusting joystick throw, joystick neutral zone, and joystick sensitivity in programming?

this heavy duty joystick an handle in the first pic would be ideal for my hand. Im rough on my joystick only matter of time before it fails or breaks. Then its 1500$ dollars to replace

the second pic is my current linx joystick and handle

[rover220]

it requires 650g of force to move from centre position,

[Burgerman]

At what length or distance from the pivot point?
I never used one on a chair. But have on a crane before becoming disabled and never noticed any difficulty at all. It just felt right for the handles length.

[Frank]

Hello there,

I have a Q700R Power wheelchair with ERGO seating and has the following control module

My power module

.

I would like to buy a used control module as spares. I found the following used control module, Quickie Control Module for Quickie Q700m Power Wheelchair D51593.06 247981 #H905. Is this power module like mine and compatible with my chair? Will it need any programming? Thank you in advance for your help you may offer.

[Burgerman]

It SHOULD be plug and play unless the mid drive has slightly different programming. But as long as you upload YOUR profile from your 700R chair it should work.

With all the positioning and sensor feedback its hard to say without trying it. But I would be about 90% confident that it will work on your chair easily without programming. You have the sunrise oem programmer anyway right? The correct firmware is 5.12.

[Frank]

Your information gives me more confidence to buy this used control module. Yes I have a programmer. Thank you for your help. All the best.

[Burgerman]

Which tyres?
You can buy tubeless rims, as per the ones I put on the salsa. But these need an adapter making.

[Frank]

Hello there, I would like to buy a used CJSM 2 control joystick. To be sure may I ask if the following control box “QUICKIE SUNRISE R-net Bluetooth Wheelchair Joystick D51637.01 TESTED” is compatibility with my Q700R Power wheelchair with ERGO seating? Thank you.