Battery Drain

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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 02:12

here we go again - you expect everyone to be like you and me and others on here - you know better - now she knows where it is -

now in that case - if she charged her batteries - then let the chair sit for months with the breaker Off - that would keep them from draining ?

good reason to use a breaker - instead of a fuse then dont you think ?
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 02:32

You can use a breaker for that yes. Or a loop/anderson. Or unplug a battery connector. You should tell her, and explain why she should.

Is it a a reason to use a breaker? If you know why, and if its accessible. Some are not. But its less reliable than a loop. I dont trust breakers. They seem to be a cause of problems as they age or the contacts wear.

You do miss the point though. She knows NOW. She could easily have known before. In this case it doesent matter as she was at home. But familiarising herself with tha chair, even reading the manual, would have allowed her to be prepared. So there would have been no panic. Next time she may be stuck with some minor problem in the dark and cold miles from home. Say for e.g.that trip had tripped as she was trying to get home in winter. And then not so lucky. You dont need to be any kind of engineer to read the manual, have a good look around the chair, figure out what unplugs or switches or trips before it becomes an emergency.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 02:39

yes i agree but really no ones does - the last time i told my friend to read the manual on the bounder - i did and it was funny

it got him so worried he wanted to return the chair :lol:

if the chair dosnt stop - yell for help - from the manual - listen some things are not for everyone regardless of what you think or what makes sense - you know this

i am glad it was that and worked - the only way i think of to make my pack where i can disconnect it is to use a breaker instead of a fuse -
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 02:44

Your choice. You can do both. Ideally you want a fuse in each battery cable. Or a fuse and a switch. Or a fuse and a loop.

Yell for help? :clap

Another thing that needs to be in the manual that nobody (but me) seems to read is that you should always keep a phone on you. Even at home. A few summers ago I went into my garage and closed the door, then had a pilot plus joystick just fail. Stopped moving the chair. It was as hot as hell and I had no means of telling anyone where I was. I had left my phone in the house. Obviously. I thought I was safe in my own home. So I was screwed.

I also have an illiostomy and am paralised so no walking anywhere. So now had 2 problems. And very messy it was too. After 3 hours, a carer turned up. Couldnt figure out where I was, so called my phone. It rang in the same room she was in. So she realised I was not far away. I dont leave home without it. So began looking for me. And found me stuck in the garage... I was imagining being in there for long enough to die with no way out. So was rather pleased she had the sense to look for me. She brought me a spare pilot plus joystick off the shelf. Plug and play. I drove back into the house with that thing in my hand connected up. That was surprisingly hard.

DONT go anywhere without a phone. Even on your own property. You never know.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 02:49

yell its a funny manual - but scary


yes on the lead 2 batteries there are two fuses - my pack will be one pack - so one fuse is all thats needed

to add a fuse and breaker - whats the point then - the breaker can do both -

should i use sandpaper to scrap the posts on the cell when i built it - would that help or better to do in any case ?

the locktite also - red of course now - but is it fine to fill it in the hole and then screw it down - or on the screw - would think its better inside ?
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 03:04

Put it on the thread of the bolt. Use enough to cover the last 5mm. Put a tiny bit in the hole. Down one side along the thread. And use the spray activator. If you have any. Works better with!

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/adhesiv ... rs/f/40319

The reason is that the stainless bolt or stud that you use, and the alloy metal terminals are passive metals. They dont cause the loctite to set naturally. So they may or may not set hard or may take a very long time compared to steel threads.

You spray the hole, allow to dry. Then coat the bolt or stud, and screw in. You can actually use the red as a sort of superglue on anything with the activator.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 05:40

i have to get the activator - i want to make sure its on there tight once done - dont want it the nyloc nut being able to remove it

seems easier to just fill the hole and screw it down then wipe off on the top - what about sandpaper on the top posts - light scrub to make them a bit rough ? for better contact - or leave them alone ?
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 05:43

https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-135285-P ... 864&sr=8-1

i would spray the screw or inside the hole with this - then add the red locktite and screw it down ?
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 05:54

i also have this locktite - https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-1330585- ... 588&sr=8-1

any reason this is not good enough - as so many different numbers 271 etc, no idea whats the difference


do you think this would be good to use as a cover on top of the pack only - cut a hole in the middle for the wires - and duct tape it on top

its plastic and only 4mm thick - would be ok ?
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 08:36

Yes. And yes. 263 is fine.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby LROBBINS » 02 Feb 2021, 11:07

263 and 271 are similar, but 263 is the better choice here as 271 REQUIRES a primer if used on two passive metals while 263 will work with or without the activator - just a bit slower (but in the end stronger) between SS and Al without it.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby LROBBINS » 02 Feb 2021, 11:08

263 and 271 are similar, but 263 is the better choice here as 271 REQUIRES a primer if used on two passive metals while 263 will work with or without the activator - just a bit slower (but in the end stronger) between SS and Al without it. You can download the technical data sheets for these if you want more details.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 12:39

263 is good. Without activator, leave 24 to 48 hours before screwing nuts/terminals etc to it. With activator, 1 hour.
Use a stainless nyloc straight onto a plated terminal. Be sure surfaces are deoxidised with some abrasive and maybe a squirt of switchcleaner.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 16:40

i ordered the activator - its better without it ? or with it -

Also - the top posts that you connect the wires to - should i use sandpaper and scrap it up a bit ? switch cleaner ?

i have contact spray - for the connectors D4 - something like that - ? spray it i- and sandpaper a bit ? or spray last ?
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby LROBBINS » 02 Feb 2021, 17:56

Aluminum oxide is non-conductive, so it is best to remove it, BUT don't use aluminum oxide sand paper (a.k.a. wet or dry), and certainly don't use a rough grit in any case (400 is reasonable). ScotchBrite or similar works even better than sandpaper. Do this just before making the connections as an oxide layer starts to form almost immediately. It probably wouldn't hurt to use a contact cleaner/deoxidizer as well.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 18:00

i can use the sponge - rough part to just scrub it a bit then spray contact cleaner - but first will lock in the screws on top ?

or spray cleaner inside the hole also - let dry - use spray activator - fill with red locktite and screw it down - leave it a few day

when ready to connect wires - scrub a little - spray contact cleaner and connect them - all done ?


does that sound correct way ?
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 18:21

263 is good. Without activator, leave 24 to 48 hours before screwing nuts/terminals etc to it. With activator, 1 hour.
Use a stainless nyloc straight onto a plated terminal. Be sure surfaces are deoxidised with some abrasive and maybe a squirt of switchcleaner.


Above!
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 19:18

:thumbup: :D
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby LROBBINS » 02 Feb 2021, 19:36

NO switchcleaner in the hole unless you are sure that it does NOT contain a lubricant.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 19:37

Ok - will use it only at the end after the screws are locktite already inside - and use it around the outside at the very end - thanks for that

i can spray the activator in the hole first ? then locktite the screw down ?
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 20:00

Yes. You dont need much and strangely you wait for it to dry before assembling. Once dry put plenty loctite on the end of the threaded bar / stud that will reach the bottom of the hole. Tighten firmly but dont go mad! Alloy is soft. Thats what the loctite is for. So you dont have to tighten too much! Thats what rips the thread out.

Aluminium alloy is a stupid material to make those terminals from for so many reasons.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 20:07

yes i want to be extra careful - i ripped one cell on my ADD ON pack and couldnt fix it - had to get a new cell to replace it - the Cell is still good but the screw hole is stripped too much nothing holds it now - i am not going to go crazy trying to fix it - i have it sitting on a self for the moment
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 20:24

For what its worth you can fix that with a helicoil insert and it will be stronger than new. And with a steel thread. When building race engines for bikes I used to strip, and do every single thread in the alloy motors. Because race engines get pulled apart frequently. And it makes a much stronger arangement with less wear or damage on reuse. To do maybe 50 holes on an engine case takes a whole afternoon. But worth doing for future ease. Same with cylinder heads. And anything on the alloy chassis.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 20:30

i dont know what i am doing with the repair stuff - whats needed - who can do it for me here - not sure - do you need to drill etc - i didnt get rid of it - but its useless the way it is -
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 20:33

Yes 1 drill. One special tap. One insert.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 20:34

i cant drill that - dont think my girls here can handle it either - too dangerous to try - if they go too deep etc, then what -
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 20:43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rtiFBC0wms

Watch.

Its hard to drill deeper than the hole. If unsure, I would literally grind half the point off the drill bit, leaving the end flat. It will then only drill to the bottom of the hole. To break the tang off, you use pointed pliers. So you dont need a hammer... Or insert it upside down so its on top and easy to see. And you would coat the threaded insert LIGHTLY with red loctite. You dont want it getting into the new thread.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby expresso » 02 Feb 2021, 20:50

i check it out - maybe one day if i am up to it - i give it a try - nothing to loose - its useless now either way - i just dont want to crack it or expose anything from inside

one of the users here received Cells and one of them gave out smoke - very bad dangerous - went to hospital to be checked - lungs etc,


so thats not worth it for me - i replaced it - easy - actually the new cell is a bit shorter and thicker - 80ah - nicer though
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby terry2 » 04 Feb 2021, 10:38

expresso wrote::thumbup: :D



Once I have fitted my Smart Shunt.
I will be able to monitor battery drain via my phone or computer.

I will post the graphs after some time of using it.
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Re: Battery Drain

Postby Burgerman » 04 Feb 2021, 14:36

And that in itself will be a considerable part of it. And the biggie. The thing that causes the real problem. Each cell has a self dischage as it sits. It does this both as you use the chair and while all switched off. And each cell does so at a different rate. And that device cannot detect any of it. As a complete back. Or as various different levels individually. So your graphs of it sat unused or in use will not show any of this. Only the total removed from the battery as one, via the cables.
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