New Wheelchair Time!

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New Wheelchair Time!

Postby garriew » 31 Jan 2021, 20:01

I'm in the market for a new wheelchair and I'm looking at the Magic Mobility V6 "hybrid".

Any experiences? Other suggestions?

I currently have a Permobil m300.

MTIA
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Burgerman » 01 Feb 2021, 12:56

If you are after a frontier powerchair then their main claim to fame is that they are very capable outdoors. By being long, wide, and so stable, and because of the high floatation low pressure fat tyres. Removing those and fitting the 3.00 x 8 like every other chair leaves wide set front casters and narrow drive wheels. And a strange sort of chair layout thats still very long.

Personally - and I am not you - I would go for the rear drive one, or as its called here and in Oz the V4. https://allterrainwheelchairs.co.uk/pro ... 9441984601

Since its shorter. And so adding skinny drive wheels makes the whole chair smaller. Albeit with the still wide apart front casters. But with the fat 145 rear tyres it should make a great chair outdoors too. And I prefer rear drive anyway. With centre mount footrest. No I dont have one. Its similar in many ways to my own BM2/3 chairs in layout though. And I know how well that works.
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby martin007 » 02 Feb 2021, 19:38

garriew wrote:I'm in the market for a new wheelchair and I'm looking at the Magic Mobility V6 "hybrid".

Any experiences? Other suggestions?

I currently have a Permobil m300.

MTIA


What budget do you have?
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 19:57

I think its paid by medical insurance. So budget is both fake with redicolous charges and not really his problem. Other than it increases the cost of everyone insurace or taxes if paid by the state.
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby martin007 » 02 Feb 2021, 20:03

In that case you just need to choose from the catalog of covered powerchairs.
I like Sunrise Medical.
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 20:32

The problem is that they only offer a very limited range of chairs in the US. Only 2 old design rear drives ones for e.g. So makes things hard. You cant get chairs like my Q700R for e.g.
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Gnomatic » 02 Feb 2021, 22:12

garriew wrote:I'm in the market for a new wheelchair and I'm looking at the Magic Mobility V6 "hybrid".

Any experiences? Other suggestions?

I currently have a Permobil m300.

MTIA


If you're going with the V6 "Hybrid," I still get a set of the wider high flotation wheels. They're easy to switch out, and to get the outdoor performance the chair is capable of, you'll need them.
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby expresso » 03 Feb 2021, 02:52

talking to a Sunrise Rep today - about chairs etc, - first time and i like him - i believe him and he understands our issues also

now - the reason Europe Uk has so many RWD chairs and models we dont have here - one is the FDA guidelines that need to be meet or harder here than in UK etc,

in Europe - most traveling is on the roads - things are more country than city in most areas - either way they end up there first - they may slowly trickle down to the US - only if demand is wanted i guess -

either way - vendors all push MWD and FWD more - in many case for many people they make more sense - but for users like me and others who go outdoors more and far - RWD is the only option for me at least as of today

when i get older or slow down - who knows - i would demo a V6 next round both MWD and RWD - with off road tires if i choose one of those chairs -
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Burgerman » 03 Feb 2021, 03:49

I agree. I have tried a few front drives and many mid drives and I hate them. They either drive funny or have loads of stuff hanging ourt behind you to hit everything or they give a harsh ride with small casters or cannot be programmed to steer properly. Mid drives really baffle me. Why? They even get stuck on my lawn in winter. The only mid drive that works is the X5/V6 and those are long and wide and terrible in small spaces. Rear drive is popular here. But even still almost every one I see is so nose heavy that even if they were programmed properly they would drive terribly and be too long and lose rear traction on uneven ground/leaving a ramp top etc.

The only option in the UK ir a rear drive with centre plate, seat moved back and reprogrammed properly! To me all the rest are unusable.
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby garriew » 03 Feb 2021, 04:36

Is reardrive actually better for climbing over curbs, stumps, steps, etc? I have not used a reardrive in nearly 20 years. I went to a MWD for turning.

Are there specific disabilities/functionality that makes a MWD better?
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby expresso » 03 Feb 2021, 05:32

its not one size fits all - for some users like myself how drove cars in past and just know when you sit in chair how it feels using it -
to me RWD feels most normal - does that mean its the best chair for everyone - NO - what matters to me may not matter to you and only you can know whats the best chair for yourself -

to me the trade of is not good enough to consider a FWD or MWD chair - being able to make a little tighter turning - but then outside it sucks - thats not good enough for me - i dont need an indoor chair that turns tight etc, i need a solid good outdoor chair - that feels like it should naturally -

i know only a few who have RWD chairs here and agree with me - everyone else - have there own reasons - some dont and just accept what they are told would be better - and maybe it is for them - but how would they know if its picked for them -

there is nothing wrong with a MWD or FWD chair if thats what works best for you - demo the chairs and pick what works for you best
in the end - you have to like it - who cares what others say -
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby swalker » 03 Feb 2021, 06:25

I have 1 rear wheel drive chair, 3 front wheel drive chairs, and a 4 wheel drive chair.

For going over a curb or climbing a stump, the rear wheel drive chair is the least capable. What happens is that when I run into an obstacle, there is no motor turning the front tire to help climb over that obstacle. The rear wheel drive wheelchair is a wonderful chair, I just don't find myself using it much outside.

My front wheel drive chairs are pretty capable when it comes to climbing over those kinds of obstacles. The motor-drive rotation of the front tire helps to lift the front of the wheelchair up and over. Of course, when the rear wheels hit the obstacle, they will not have motor-driven tire rotation to help pull them over. However, I find the front wheel drive chairs are MUCH better than the rear wheel drive chairs for this.

But, really, if you want to handle rugged terrain outdoors, a four wheel drive wheelchair is the ticket. The problem is that a four wheel drive wheelchair will be large and have a lousy turning radius. This compromises their ability to serve as an all around wheelchair.

For my everyday wheelchair, I pick a front wheel drive model (Permobil C500 or Permobil F5). For more adventurous outdoor use, I pick the four wheel drive (Magic Mobility X4, which has been replaced in their lineup by the X8).

I have found that no single wheelchair will meet all my needs. Having multiple wheelchairs allows me to pick the right tools for the job. And, I as I have found on multiple occasions, it is a good idea to have backup wheelchairs!

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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby expresso » 03 Feb 2021, 17:15

i agree - its different for everyone - sounds like your are more outdoors area - woods etc, - in that case - your correct a RWD may not work as good or safely either - i am in the city so not much outdoors stuff going on - i do reach some areas after riding for 20 miles first -

i guess i say i am 90 percent streets roads and very little real outdoor off road - i would like to do it also - must be fun

another thing i want to add about a new chair process - usually you would go to a Clinic Rehab etc, and you have the vendor there etc,

this is another option also if you dont want to use a Rehab Clinic - you find on your own a licensed Therapist who does the same thing as the person at the Clinic - they have to be licensed to evaluate you - you can have your new chair process in your home that way -

with the vendor there also - less to deal with if you ask me - and i may do that next time - by pass the clinics - you do have to pay the Therapist yourself out of pocket - unless your insurance plan covers it or find some other funding source - you figure about $300 for a hour - they do all the papers work and thats it- and when new chair arrives they bring it to your house - since you done it there - you get it there

its an option - if you dont like the rehab place or they give you a hard time with your chair - etc, or if its far away - this would be a much better option - as long as the therapist you use - can do a good medical justification letter to support your needs for the chair and extras etc,
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby garriew » 05 Feb 2021, 01:13

I saw the V6 today and it is big. It looked like the seat had risers to make it even taller. Have to make sure it will fit in my Pacifica.
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Jay_x » 05 Feb 2021, 20:44

Have you looked at the Quickie Q500 H? Its a blend of rear-wheel drive and mid-wheel drive

That is the one I have m y eyes on. I keep trying to find someone who has used it for a while but no dice yet since its pretty new.

My only complaint is the side arms on the foot plate, Ugh! I hate those things so much. I think I might be able to get them to do a custom center mount foot plate, hopefully the VA will foot the bill for that.

https://www.sunrisemedical.com/power-wh ... ive/q500-h

the Q500 comes in an 8.5 mph option which is awesome. The V6 is slow, that is my main complaint about it. The other complaint is its bulky and big as you have seen.

Promo vid for the Q500 with a grand total of about 20 seconds of actually seeing the chair in action, because you know its not like a perspective buyer would actually want to see that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aDmXhM ... rthAmerica
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Jay_x » 05 Feb 2021, 20:51

Wow, just found this vid of a guy comparing the Invacare TDX SP2 NB and the Sunrise Medical Q500M in off road conditions. He says the TDX was the hands down winner. That is a shock to me


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=968DEEQ ... ySolutions
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby expresso » 05 Feb 2021, 21:02

that looks like an updated version of the 636 646 models - seating upgraded - anti tippers on the ground all the time - if your Ok with that - looks nice otherwise - now they market 8 mph - on the 646 they market 8.5 may be same motor just reduced in settings - or they just did away with 8.5 now and sticking with 8 only

its at least a decent speed to move -
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Burgerman » 05 Feb 2021, 21:04

Well ones got off road style tyres one has smooth slick style tyres? Kind of whey you would expect. And the amount of downward pressure on the 4 caster tyres can be adjusted on both chairs. Greater pressure = more rocking back and forth stability and less traction. So either chair can be set for drive wheel traction or stability too. So I would expect that all else configured the same they would be pretty much the same. Athough the longest and widest would likely be better outdoors - like the X5/V6 chairs. But really ifyou are planning on mud, a mid drive chair isnt a great idea! Unless its got fat off road style rubber like the X5/V6 chairs.

Other than marketing, and stickers between the EU and US there was never any difference. They used to call the same motors 8.5 here but it was pointed out that they should be 8mph max to comply with the law. So they then called them 13kph which is 8mph. The motors and gearboxes are exactly the same. And both can be 8mph or 8.5mph depending on tyre make/nominal size, voltage max sent to motor. Frequently 21.6V in the EU. You will see yours labled as 8.5 and a voltage of 22.5v. its all the same thing.
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby expresso » 06 Feb 2021, 02:12

thats correct - its set to 22.5V here - i have to check what a 8 is set here - on a qm720 - i cant see having two motors - for such a minor difference

25.5v gives you about 9 to 9.2 ?
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Rollin Positive » 06 Feb 2021, 06:33

garriew wrote:I'm in the market for a new wheelchair and I'm looking at the Magic Mobility V6 "hybrid".

Any experiences? Other suggestions?

I currently have a Permobil m300.

MTIA


If your looking for a chair that is really robust then Frontier is your chair!

Anything else your going to frankstein it with parts and features its really not meant for.

The v6 can be both an great outdoor chair from sand to forest, gravel mud etc.
Plus work fine at work, school, in the city with a super comfortable ride

Chairs and size are subjective once you roll for a while you get use to it and how it fits in to your life style.

Back in the day we all had rear wheel drives. Great at the time but remember mobility is a business and the reason the drive changed was because of a need to sell more chairs.

I was working with Pride marketing when the q6000 came out and they with there massive marketing budget convinced users they handle better in tight areas so everyone changed


Other company's followed, once the market saturated the industry did the same and pushed front wheel drive

Because of these changes there was not a big market for rear wheel drives so in the states most stop making them

To say one is better then the other just doesn't work because everyone is different

Having gone from a m300 to a F3 major change and front wheel drive takes me places a mid wheel can never get to because of that drive is easy to get stuck in sharp inclines, or lose traction on gravel, wet grass or mud

Being the brand ambassador for Frontier in the US I can tell you with out a doubt you will not find a more comfortable chair with off road tires, great suspension that really works.

What throws off must new prospective buyers are the large tires but I can take my v6 any where I can take my new F5 or older F3

I am telling anyone in the states to not compromise do not let your DME tell you that only group 3 chairs can be funded though Medicare or Private insurance and make you settle for a smaller group 3 chair

Stand firm and demand the order be placed

At worse if your chair does not get funded some insurance may make you wait a few month and resubmit but some insurance will allow you to have the order replaced with a group 3 smaller chair which would be the c73 by Frontier

Ask to set up a demo I can help at your home so you can see how it works around your area and fit in you van should not be a problem

Here is a video showing how easy it fits in a standard Dodge Caravan

Feel free to email me more then willing to help you and get that demo and a DME to answer questions if you need.

RollinPositive@Gmail.com


youtu.be/WFmYGwV2ufI


youtu.be/2_9zAnKEneU



Frontier V6 All Terrain Wheel Change - Magic Mobility Power Chairs

youtu.be/oMjMNCuqcd0
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby garriew » 06 Feb 2021, 18:30

Rollin Positive wrote:If your looking for a chair that is really robust then Frontier is your chair!

Is there an option for faster speeds? Do you have the docking pin?

I wish they had a lithium option.
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Burgerman » 06 Feb 2021, 18:40

There are people on this forum that have installed 176Ah to 200Ah lithium cells in that chair. Thats around 5x the range. If a manufacturer offered a lithium option it would only be 70 to 100Ah like bounder.
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby expresso » 06 Feb 2021, 19:12

Most insurances wont pay for lithium because of the Cost - and it will have a BMS -

i wish they had at least an 8mph speed option - the speed on those chairs was what turned me away
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Burgerman » 06 Feb 2021, 20:31

8MPH = LESS TORQUE and they are meant to do off road so the two things dont go together well.
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby expresso » 06 Feb 2021, 21:52

yes but an option for them would be nice for many of us who dont really do off road with them - not everyone who gets those models do off road for real - its called off road because of the big tires - take those off and its not off road any more -

didnt you just get a pair of those 8 mph motors ? what chair would you use them on ?
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby Burgerman » 06 Feb 2021, 21:56

They are to replace the 16mph 45V 150Amp controller chairs motors. Those are AMT at the moment. One is broke. So since I have 150A in place of 120, and 45V TOO, I dont have an torque problem!
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby expresso » 06 Feb 2021, 22:03

nice - - i love the speed if i had the bottom end just as good would be perfect -

15 mph feels amazing - i have reached it on some steep down hills - i slow it down once tire starts to shake a bit

i dont get shake till i go over 13 and depends
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby garriew » 06 Feb 2021, 22:49

The speed is a concern for me as my m300 has the 7.5/8 mph motors. Would 1.5-2 mph make that much difference?

It would be nice if they had high/low gear boxes like BM mentioned somewhere. Could it be a DIY solution?
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby expresso » 06 Feb 2021, 22:58

i am about 160lbs - and dosnt make a difference to me - i never encounter something that i wished i was slower - plus if you add a few volts - you gain some speed and not loose any more bottom end either - only you can decide if you like the pros and cons - for me YES i take 8.5 anyday - i like to move and its not sluggish at all uphills etc, just a tad - but nothing that i would be upset about -

depends if your 300lbs or more etc, it may be - but any faster then i feel it also like in the bounder - its sluggish on hills - i got used to it - not in a rush - i enjoy the ride - wont last long - 60 secs maybe - then your back to flying speed :thumbup:
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Re: New Wheelchair Time!

Postby expresso » 06 Feb 2021, 23:00

garriew wrote:The speed is a concern for me as my m300 has the 7.5/8 mph motors. Would 1.5-2 mph make that much difference?

It would be nice if they had high/low gear boxes like BM mentioned somewhere. Could it be a DIY solution?



if you mean 2mph slower ? yes i would feel that for sure -
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