Powerchair battery charger with fuse

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Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby martin007 » 01 Feb 2021, 23:08

Hello.


Old mobility battery chargers have a fuse to protect the current input.

cargador.jpg


New chargers don't have that input fuse.

imagen_2021-02-01_230834.png
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Advantages and disadvantages.
Opinions about it.
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby Burgerman » 01 Feb 2021, 23:41

There are all kinds of ways to protect electronics. The chargers can be reverse polarity, over current and short circuit protected internally without a fuse. This is the wheelchair side.

The AC side does not need a fuse in the UK as theres one in every AC plug. But even if not visible there may be one internally.

So advantages, disadvantages? Not sure. As long as its been thought through carefully its safe.
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby martin007 » 01 Feb 2021, 23:49

Burgerman wrote:The AC side does not need a fuse in the UK as theres one in every AC plug. But even if not visible there may be one internally.


In Spain it isn't so.
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 00:03

If its sold in spain and no fuse in plug there will be one internally. It may look like an electrical component soldered to the board, or fusable link, or a glass fuse. It has to have some means of protection to conform to the CE markings. Legally. Unless its chinese ad they dont care!
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 00:08

Take a look at these 2 pictures. BOTH are of fuses. May not be obvious.
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby martin007 » 02 Feb 2021, 00:23

I mean replaceable fuses.
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 00:26

Well they may use these instead. Both work. The internal ones are not replacable unless you know how to work a soldering iron.

dEPENDING on who designes it internal fuses can be better. There are automatic resettable ones. So they break the circuit when too many Amps. They reset themselves. https://www.littelfuse.com/products/pol ... -ptcs.aspx
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby ex-Gooserider » 02 Feb 2021, 05:44

Worth noting that if something blows on the mains side with a modern switching type charger, the charger is almost certainly toast... The DC output side has the protection on it that limits how much can be drawn by the AC side. So short the output and the DC protection will limit the drain on the entire unit.... Only way to get excess draw on the AC side is for something in the switching circuitry to die. (nothing like that "magic smoke" aroma...)

Since we don't have schematics, a non-replaceable fuse isn't a problem as the rest of the unit is ready to be binned anyway.

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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby martin007 » 02 Feb 2021, 20:33

ex-Gooserider wrote:Worth noting that if something blows on the mains side with a modern switching type charger, the charger is almost certainly toast... The DC output side has the protection on it that limits how much can be drawn by the AC side. So short the output and the DC protection will limit the drain on the entire unit.... Only way to get excess draw on the AC side is for something in the switching circuitry to die. (nothing like that "magic smoke" aroma...)

Since we don't have schematics, a non-replaceable fuse isn't a problem as the rest of the unit is ready to be binned anyway.

ex-Gooserider



Do you have any kind of extra protection for PSUs?
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby Burgerman » 02 Feb 2021, 20:46

No.
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby martin007 » 04 Feb 2021, 20:54

Burgerman wrote:The AC side does not need a fuse in the UK as theres one in every AC plug. But even if not visible there may be one internally.



This?

britanico.jpg
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby Burgerman » 04 Feb 2021, 20:56

Yes.
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby ex-Gooserider » 09 Feb 2021, 04:13

martin007 wrote:
ex-Gooserider wrote:Worth noting that if something blows on the mains side with a modern switching type charger, the charger is almost certainly toast... The DC output side has the protection on it that limits how much can be drawn by the AC side. So short the output and the DC protection will limit the drain on the entire unit.... Only way to get excess draw on the AC side is for something in the switching circuitry to die. (nothing like that "magic smoke" aroma...)

Since we don't have schematics, a non-replaceable fuse isn't a problem as the rest of the unit is ready to be binned anyway.

ex-Gooserider



Do you have any kind of extra protection for PSUs?


Same thing applies to modern switching style PSU's, wall warts, etc... Remember that the typical 'mobility brick' charger is basically just a PSU with some added circuitry to give (supposedly, pretending they actually did it right) it the appropriate charge curve output when connected to a battery....

So the same basic thing applies, typically they will have some sort of protection on the DC output, either a fuse, or some sort of current limiting shutoff circuitry. Optional is a diode to prevent harm if hooking it up backwards... (often depends on the use case) This protects the AC side if everything is working right. The AC side will typically have either a component or circuit board trace very close to the input that will fail open if something in the supply itself fails... (generally it is considered bad to rely on popping the fuse / breaker on the mains, since the manufacturer has no knowledge / control over that.)

ex-Gooserider
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Jazzy 1100
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Re: Powerchair battery charger with fuse

Postby martin007 » 09 Feb 2021, 20:49

ex-Gooserider wrote:
martin007 wrote:
ex-Gooserider wrote:Worth noting that if something blows on the mains side with a modern switching type charger, the charger is almost certainly toast... The DC output side has the protection on it that limits how much can be drawn by the AC side. So short the output and the DC protection will limit the drain on the entire unit.... Only way to get excess draw on the AC side is for something in the switching circuitry to die. (nothing like that "magic smoke" aroma...)

Since we don't have schematics, a non-replaceable fuse isn't a problem as the rest of the unit is ready to be binned anyway.

ex-Gooserider



Do you have any kind of extra protection for PSUs?


Same thing applies to modern switching style PSU's, wall warts, etc... Remember that the typical 'mobility brick' charger is basically just a PSU with some added circuitry to give (supposedly, pretending they actually did it right) it the appropriate charge curve output when connected to a battery....

So the same basic thing applies, typically they will have some sort of protection on the DC output, either a fuse, or some sort of current limiting shutoff circuitry. Optional is a diode to prevent harm if hooking it up backwards... (often depends on the use case) This protects the AC side if everything is working right. The AC side will typically have either a component or circuit board trace very close to the input that will fail open if something in the supply itself fails... (generally it is considered bad to rely on popping the fuse / breaker on the mains, since the manufacturer has no knowledge / control over that.)

ex-Gooserider




I understand.
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