Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

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Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 10 Feb 2021, 20:09

Hello,
It's about a storm 4, suddenly it's going slow, about 3km/h, while the original speed is 6km/h, batteries are good, i tried them on another wheelchail, my doubts go arround the motors, something is wrong there abviously, i never repaired one, can you show how to detect exactly where the problem is, and i might need a generator to make motor tests, so please show me witch generator is the right one
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Burgerman » 10 Feb 2021, 21:05

Slow down! You are jumping to conclusions. Brushed motors? Or brushless. What control system?

Q. Does the chair drive normally other than being slow? For e.g. it goes straight wen you push the stick forwards?
Q. Battery lights. ALL lit?
Q. Does it have any seating functions?
Q. And are the motors making any strange noises?
Q. Suddenly going slow?
Q. How and when did it begin?
Q. Any odd lights?
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 11 Feb 2021, 00:55

i suppose they are brushless, i hope the photos down below would help you to define that
Yes the chair drives perfectly normal apart from being slow
the batteries are the same i've been using for years before, lithium one i guess (plz check the photo)
Seating function yes i have them, and they still work fine, lights as well, except that i lost the front leds for sometime ago
the motors are little bit more noisy than they used to be, especially when pushed to the limit
when i say suddenly goes slow i mean, i haven't been using it for about 3 months, during corona movie, first day i used it it was ok, second day it went slow, i tried to use it more ofen maybe it would adapt and recover by itself but no chance.
For the light they are originals, except the problem of loosing front leds (plz check the pics)

Image
Image
Image
Image
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby martin007 » 11 Feb 2021, 01:07

Take out the brushes and check them.
The contact surface must be flat, uniform and shiny.
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Burgerman » 11 Feb 2021, 01:12

i suppose they are brushless, i hope the photos down below would help you to define that
Yes the chair drives perfectly normal apart from being slow
the batteries are the same i've been using for years before, lithium one i guess (plz check the photo)

Your motors are brushed. And batteries the usual lead MK GRP 24 74Ah sized. They usually last 1 years hevy use, or up to 5 or 6 light use/sat watching TV.

Seating function yes i have them, and they still work fine, lights as well, except that i lost the front leds for sometime ago
the motors are little bit more noisy than they used to be, especially when pushed to the limit
when i say suddenly goes slow i mean, i haven't been using it for about 3 months, during corona movie, first day i used it it was ok, second day it went slow, i tried to use it more ofen maybe it would adapt and recover by itself but no chance.
For the light they are originals, except the problem of loosing front leds (plz check the pics)


I suspect you have the seat tilt not fully down, because of trapped cable in the way or something, or the tilt/riser microswitches are faulty or disconnected or whatever causing the same problem. Is there a snail or light lit?
Or you are in wrong mode or speed setting...
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 14 Feb 2021, 04:10

if i am gonna isolate the motors and do some checking, what's would be the right voltage and Amps to test them directly without going threw the control module, knowing that i need the maximum of power to reach the maximum speed so i would know if the problem is solved or not, if it is still slow or it got back to the old 6kph

check this tester plz and tell me if they both work and witch one of them would give better results

https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B077CL831Y/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AK9MKT1J0MOKC&psc=1
https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B077CP69P6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=AK9MKT1J0MOKC&psc=1
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Burgerman » 14 Feb 2021, 05:35

You cannot use that power supply. As soon as you connect the motor it will have 2 problems.
1. the brake likely needs 12V to release correctly.
2. The motor itself will instantly draw about 300+ Amps as it begins to spin. And the power supply will go bang.

You only need a 12V battery. And you already have 2. First power the brake. 2nd power the motor. Then count the RPM. It will be half the full speed 24V RPM.

And what you are doing wont find the problem A motor cannot suddenly go half as fAST! And certainly not 2 of them at once. So the problem is elsewhere as I said above.
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 14 Feb 2021, 16:25

you are right, i am conviced by what you said, i'will start checking the wiring and actuators right away
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 15 Feb 2021, 22:07

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

As you can see, i opened it all and checked it all, nothing out of the ordinary
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Burgerman » 15 Feb 2021, 22:15

Check the switches that tell it that it is not reclined. It not lifted up.
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 15 Feb 2021, 22:30

the chair has no lift option

by switches you mean the hub under the sit ?
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Burgerman » 15 Feb 2021, 22:34

A microswitch of some kind related to tilt.
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby martin007 » 15 Feb 2021, 22:43

Do you have a multimeter?
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 15 Feb 2021, 23:17

Do you have a multimeter?

Unfortunately no, but i can look for one if it's worth it, i still keep in mind that there might be a problem with the brushes, i'll have them checked during this week, but what about the fuse, could it be it
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby martin007 » 15 Feb 2021, 23:48

i still keep in mind that there might be a problem with the brushes, i'll have them checked during this week



You can check them yourself.
You need a screwdriver.


Question.
How old are the batteries?
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby steves1977uk » 16 Feb 2021, 00:51

I'm guessing it's a programming issue, as Dynamic joysticks holds some of it in the pod and other modules. If you plug in another joystick pod with slower speed profiles, these get copied to the PM and if you plug the original joystick back in, those slower settings now gets copied to that pod. :fencing Another user on here had a similar issue with Dynamics stuff.

So maybe it needs re-programming?

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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 16 Feb 2021, 02:23

How old are the batteries?


3 years ago, but they work fine on the other chair, full speed of 10kph..

So maybe it needs re-programming?


i did that yesterday night, but haven't tested the chair yet to see the result, coming tomorrow
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 16 Feb 2021, 02:38

i need to ask you all a couple of questions, can i for exemple do some changes to a left motor to make it work for the right side, i know that the mechanical part has to be removed and placed by a new one, but what about the electrical part of the motor, the black tube...
Image

Image

second question, i was surprised yesterday afternoon after opening the chair that the little Dynamic actuator module has no role at all in the game, just staying there watching
Image


At first i thought it's a lightning module, but now i need to know to know how does this one looks like
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Burgerman » 16 Feb 2021, 02:46

The black tube IS the motor. The mechanical part IS the gearbox.

The module does seating and lights.

The the inhibit that slows the chair down is a switch. It may be inside an actuator or elsewhere.
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 16 Feb 2021, 02:52

i have a proposition for you burgerman, how about i disconnect both of the actuators i have from the switch and test it again !!!
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 16 Feb 2021, 02:59

The module does seating and lights.


Image


Image
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Burgerman » 16 Feb 2021, 06:20

That may give a different error. Depends how it is programmed.
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby ex-Gooserider » 23 Feb 2021, 04:28

salam321 wrote:i need to ask you all a couple of questions, can i for exemple do some changes to a left motor to make it work for the right side, i know that the mechanical part has to be removed and placed by a new one, but what about the electrical part of the motor, the black tube...
Image

Image

second question, i was surprised yesterday afternoon after opening the chair that the little Dynamic actuator module has no role at all in the game, just staying there watching
Image


At first i thought it's a lightning module, but now i need to know to know how does this one looks like


The gearboxes on most chairs are mirror images of each other and if you can take them off the motor (the black can) it should be possible to swap them... Then depending on how everything works, you MIGHT find the motor runs backwards from what you expect. If it does, simply swap the two power wires (not the brake wires).... A brushed DC motor can be hooked up with the power wires in either direction, swapping them makes the motor spin the other way.

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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby salam321 » 24 Feb 2021, 02:56

SO there is no such a thing as left motor or right motor, they both can work on each side we want them on, with just a change of the gearbox and the polarity of powering the motors !!
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Rye » 27 Feb 2021, 21:55

Changing gearboxes isn't so easy. The bolts holding the electric motor to the gearbox are made to snap. I know this because I did it yesterday. It doesn't take much force to snap them either. There may be an insider secret though.
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby martin007 » 27 Feb 2021, 22:19

Rye wrote:There may be an insider secret though.



Can you explain yourself better?
I'm interested in the subject.
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Burgerman » 27 Feb 2021, 22:24

Was this permobil again?

I have undone and swapped motors and dissassembled linix motors from sunrise here no problem. Its actually easy. No loctite or anything. Just a simpe allen key. But it appears premobil dont want you doing this. Thay are a unit, complete with a part number. And they intend them to stay that way... They do seem to go out of their way to make everything as difficult or impossible as they can. Did you try heat?
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Rye » 27 Feb 2021, 22:32

Not sure where I would heat. The bolts are long and the threads start somewhere deep in gearbox. There may be a strategic location to heat though. Funny thing, though, the motor still won't unmount from the gearbox. It's possible the threads start in motor and go through to the gearbox. Not real sure.
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Burgerman » 27 Feb 2021, 22:48

Normally on linix motors, non permobil, its just few M6 allen bolts.

Permobil use different gearboxes/longer 2 pole motors. Maybe they had trouble with them coming loose? And loctited them. Or just dont want you taking them apart sothey can sell a complete unit/part number. Motors generally wear out as a unit so they see no need to allow dissassembly?

On other chairs with linix motors the 4 and 2 pole (longer) motors all use just 2 bolts per motor. Look at the pic. That M6 bolt and its opposite number, are all you undo. And that can even be done without taking the motor off the chair. I did find one thing though. All the gearboxes use the same ratios. Speed is determined by motor winding. So to make a 6mph chair into an 8mph one, you just undo 2 bolts, swap motors, and you are done.
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Re: Wheelchair going slow !!!! Why ???

Postby Rye » 28 Feb 2021, 00:12

That sounds convenient. How do they mount? I may be able to adapt them to my chair.
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