Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Updates

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Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Updates

Postby finna124 » 22 Feb 2021, 18:43

Has anyone here had experience using the Specialty Control Interface Module with a Quantum QLogic 2 Wheelchair? I'm specifically using a Q6 Edge HD.

For context, I'm trying to build an eye-tracking application, and am on the part where I need to send motion commands from my computer (Jetson Xavier) to the wheelchair base. I was advised to use an SCIM hooked into the back AAM (with an egg switch on the hand control to turn it on & boot into the SCIM). I am talking over the DB9 port to the SCIM. However, it seems my hand control is unable to detect my SCIM. When I plug in my programmer, it only shows 0x8842 in the System Information instead of the Speciality Control Interface Module. I am trying to update my Hand control (HW1.00) firmware to 4.60, but it is not appearing in my programmer when I copy the file on. I previously updated my powerbase and AAM firmware fine, so I know the programmer works.

I also have an Enhanced Display (ED). I can try using its DB9 port but am unsure how to get the ED to recognize my input signals as a valid Joystick, as I do not have the documentation for the signals interface.

Has anyone had experience doing this kind of thing? I would greatly appreciate any helps/docs!

Thanks,
Arjun
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby Burgerman » 22 Feb 2021, 18:59

I suspect that you may need an OEM programmer?

And pride will tell you there isnt one. They lie of course but very much under lock and key. I may be wrong. But because of the programmer problem pride isnt very popular around here. It might be possible with the Dealer programmer but if so I dont have any experience of it so cant help. Maybe someone else has.
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby finna124 » 22 Feb 2021, 19:38

I wasn't aware there were programmers with different capabilities, interesting. What is the programmer problem you mention about Pride? The programmer my team and I have it this one off of ebay:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Q-Logic-Curtis- ... 2749.l2649

It seems to function for most things we need it for but is not able to update the hand control and SCIM firmware. The files just do not appear when we do "Select Version" in "Firmware Upgrade", and I suspected it is because of filenames. The previous fw files were DWR... .cag, but the one's were trying now are CTL... .cag. I'm not knowledgeable on what the names and numbers mean. Does anyone have an idea of what could be happening?
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby Burgerman » 22 Feb 2021, 20:04

They are all dealer.

The OEM one "doesent exist" according to pride. It has far more capability. Since these are made by curtis instruments, and branded for pride then we know one does exist. Because we have a curtis instrument OEM version or 3 that are PC based here. It works on early quantum joysticks and not on the later ones unfortunately. Which is why people interested in proper control are usually advised to look at chairs with other control systems. Right now R-Net is the best, but there are solutions for many.
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby woodygb » 23 Feb 2021, 00:32

Pride Q-Logic is CURTIS...

https://cdn.curtisinstruments.com/produ ... eet_en.pdf

BUT ...as B.M. say's.... Pride like to have their own software twist , this often prevents the use of anything other than GENUINE Pride kit working .

So a Curtis 1313 of a higher level ( O.E.M. ) MIGHT work ...but it might not.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 1&_sacat=0
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby ex-Gooserider » 23 Feb 2021, 01:50

finna124 wrote:I wasn't aware there were programmers with different capabilities, interesting. What is the programmer problem you mention about Pride? The programmer my team and I have it this one off of ebay:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Q-Logic-Curtis- ... 2749.l2649

It seems to function for most things we need it for but is not able to update the hand control and SCIM firmware. The files just do not appear when we do "Select Version" in "Firmware Upgrade", and I suspected it is because of filenames. The previous fw files were DWR... .cag, but the one's were trying now are CTL... .cag. I'm not knowledgeable on what the names and numbers mean. Does anyone have an idea of what could be happening?


Essentially there are different 'levels' of programmer for most chair controllers... The difference is what adjustments are available and how much they do at different levels... While there are variations between systems, typically the two levels you will see mentioned most are "dealer" and "OEM". Dealer level is typically rather limited, with fewer functions accessible, and often those functions can have "walls" that limit the range of adjustments that are possible. OEM level will grant access to more functions, and those functions will have the full range of adjustment (and even allow changing or removing the "walls")

To paraphrase a movie, with increased power comes increased responsibility, and an OEM level programmer DOES have the ability to mess things up more than a dealer level, which is the excuse given for trying to limit access by "us peasants" to even dealer levels, let alone OEM level...

That said, the members here have figured out ways to get OEM level access to most of the systems used on chairs today... Some are easier to do than others, and some require purchasing or making additional hardware (which isn't always easy) but it can be done.

Pride is the biggest exception, (followed by Permobil,) they modify the Curtis controllers they use so that the normal Curtis OEM programmers won't work. Then they deny that an OEM level programmer even exists. However this is obviously false as their different products have different profiles and they can generate different profiles for the same product in response to user issues (Getting them to do this is a separate issue, good luck if you don't have "connections"....) Since those profiles can't be produced using the dealer level programmer, they MUST have a higher level programmer in order to make them.... However nobody has been able to figure out how to access the "non-existent" OEM programmer....

One of the basic things that WCD tries to teach people how to do is improving the performance and handling of our chairs by reprogramming them, and many of our suggested changes need OEM level access in order to make them. Because of this we advise people against getting chairs that we can't get them access to OEM level programming tools, such as those made by Pride.... (Many also have the opinion that Pride also is among the worst for build quality / durability / design, but that is a separate problem)

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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby finna124 » 26 Feb 2021, 01:18

Thanks everyone for the feedback. However, we ended up just giving up on the SCIM and using the DB9 port on the Enhanced Display. We bought one because I figured this might happen, glad we did.
There wasn't any docs on the internet about how the QLogic DB9 works electrically, but it was almost identical to R-Net so we followed one of those docs. Got the wheelchair spinning and controlling from my laptop in just 5 hours or so.
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby rover220 » 26 Feb 2021, 08:36

The db9 across the 3 main manufacturers are wired to tash standard iirc so should all work the same.
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby Burgerman » 26 Feb 2021, 13:33

Is there an exACT SPEC FOR THAT STANDArd? Damned keyboard!
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby woodygb » 26 Feb 2021, 14:00

Seems much the same as the PGDT OMNI

http://javafoundry.com/home/Q-Logic_Tec ... Manual.pdf

Page 19
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby rover220 » 26 Feb 2021, 14:52

Burgerman wrote:Is there an exACT SPEC FOR THAT STANDArd? Damned keyboard!


it is listed in one of the dynamic controls manuals, if i can find the page and diagram i will post.
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby rover220 » 26 Feb 2021, 14:57

pic
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby rover220 » 26 Feb 2021, 15:00

trace not tash sorry
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Re: Quantum QLogic 2 SCIM / Enhanced Display / Firmware Upda

Postby LROBBINS » 26 Feb 2021, 17:02

FYI - the Trace Center was at the University of Wisconsin (now at U. of Maryland https://trace.umd.edu/history/) and wrote the first group of accessibility tools for MS-DOS and later for Windows, Mac & Linux. You wouldn't know this from the Windowz "accessibility settings", however, as MS never credits anyone outside MS. As far as I know the accessibility group at MS has never done anything beyond telling handicapper software writers what rules they should follow (and then screwing them up by not following their own rules).
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