Quickie Q500H

[Swan T.W.]

i see - its very close - hard to tell but i can see it - - all this time - i would have never known - that settles it - i been using an Hybrid for a decade without knowing -

i never heard of the term Hybrid for wheelchairs till a few years ago with amysystem chair - till then - i never knew one existed -

MWD FWD RWD - all i knew - under sunrise here - the 6x6 and P222 chairs are under the RWD section - always have been - and never once you seen the word Hybrid -

how would one know giving that info. i knew i never liked the anti tippers on the chair - but i got them off the ground and that satisfied me enough - the rest of the chair is great - no wonder they were giving me a hard time to get them off the ground - they didnt want to do it

so tell me this now - is the P222se chair also an hybrid - or would that be a RWD ?

all i ever had was quickie chairs - P220 - P222se - same chair just faster - then 646 and 636 with the HS motors - and bounder -

the chair in stock form - i was able to get up the steeper hills without an issue or tipping back - front end lifted just a bit - in stock form

the chair became more unstable on hills after i changed to the tires which lifted it up higher - and moved the seat back a notch -

overall it feels better this way to me for about 95% of the time - its only when i run into steeper hills which it then is not as good and too tippy feeling -

i rather have it good 95% of the time and deal with the hills - i avoid the ones that i feel are too steep - sometimes i find other ways around it - but sometimes in parks etc, a few i went - i didnt like it much - i am not able to fully go everywhere because of the shorter base and larger tires

so this settles it then - i have a hybrid

our choices of RWD are getting worse and worse - i though sunrise was the best and now not so sure - if they dont bring a RWD here -

they are off the list - i dont count the Rival - its RWD but dont like it at all - invacare - never had one - dont like that either - no Rnet - no motor option -

only sunrise has a motor option that i know off - that leaves V4 RWD only chair left - i am glad i got my 636 now -

makes no sense to me - if a true RWD 500R - or what ever its called - is more stable - longer base - why not bring it here and forget the hybrid - why would anyone choose a H over the R model ?

in the city i dont feel limited with the short base - only on steeper hills - i have to watch out -

the only way to be more stable now with my chairs are to use stock size tires and have the anti tippers on the ground - i wont be doing it so i have to just watch the hills

i been using my chairs this way for over 6 years - the chair i got stuck with was the P222se on hill - thats a very light end - lifts easy

6x6 chairs - i have to ride the hill on the anti tippers which dosnt feel that safe - i avoid doing that if i can help it

no wonder the seating on these things are moved forward more - i will still move it back a notch on the new chair next week and try it that way for some time -

i want a RWD chair now -

Finally. Good luck finding a RWD.

[Burgerman]

Well there are some. Just that the choice in the US is limited to 3 mainstream ones.

Magic's V4 (all good other than rather wide...) and not exactly cheap.
Invacares aviva/avira or whatever its called which looks OK and wide set casters so great with seat moved back centre plate etc but uses that dynamic LiNX so hard to program (wont work properly on windows even with the $$ hack).
The pride RIVAL and again QLOGIC3 so no way to program that.
The bounder - big and heavy and chains... 1930s design.

Or import a true rear drive, quite a few options, from the EU or UK or elsewhere in the world.

[expresso]

the V4 is the only one here - other than Pride - invacare and bounder

bounder i have - pride i dont want - invacare i dont want either -

i would want a sunrise RWD

may have to end up with the V4 - if its still around by the time i do another chair

over here in the states - its a bunch of bullshit going on - the insurance and the companies are all in the same bed - they control it and we get shit to choose from - one by one they are disappearing - the RWD chairs -

[swalker]

the V4 is the only one here -

--- deleted ---

i would want a sunrise RWD

Magic Mobility (makers of the V4) was bought by Sunrise in 2018. Since then, Innovation In Motion has continued to be the rep for Magic Mobility products in the US due to an existing contract.

I have been told that contract expires in October of this year, so shortly, you may be able to get a "Sunrise" V4.

Steve

[expresso]

sounds great - i have alot of time before i get another chair paid for -

but still good to know - i have others who are due for a chair - someone may be demo the 500H - i can let them know to hold off a bit if they dont like it and wait for the RWD

or they may like it - not everyone likes a tippy chair

[Burgerman]

Finally.

With expresso we always get there eventually. Sometimes takes a LOT of repeated posts! He has his ideas and feelings and opinion and no amount of logic or facts or explanations seems to change. In spite of the fact that it SHOULD! Until something eventually clicks in his head after much frustration. I have been telling him this stuff repeatedly for years! And he couldnt see it. NOW he gets it... We are not just talking about expresso though.

[Burgerman]

not everyone likes a tippy chair

Theres 2 types of tippy. All chairs have both types. To a greater or lesser degree. This will go right over expressos head. For a year or two.

Theres the unstable tippy caused by short wheelbase/high CG position and that tips unexpectedly on slopes or ramps. Thats bad and nobody wants it. And what he is seeing on his short wheelbase hybrid type chairs. Basically you are driving a bar stool on hills.

Theres the 2nd type which many WANT. Thats where a normally stable rear drive chair, with longer wheelbase, and LOW CG (no high seat position no heavy seating options up higher than the batteries) is configured with a rearward but low CG. So it does not easily tip on ramps or hills. And is very pitch stable. But it wheelies at will easily for control, and drive tyres are under your backside so its easy to control and steer indoors, and theres low mass over the casters. Unlike the barstool this is more like a car. Where pitch stability is less affected by slopes. And only affected by power and CG position (weight distribution). With low CG and longer base you can move CG back safely.

A chair is a compromise between these two types of pitch stability. And so CG height, and wheelbase length are very important. An inch either way on CG hieght or wheelbase makes a huge difference. In other words the lower you can get the CG the less bad tippy you get. And the more rearward you can have it.

[steves1977uk]

expresso, why not get a Dietz RWD chair imported? You'll love the smooth ride it gives. But you will have to put up a fight and say you want no chair except a RWD one. Plenty here in the UK.

Steve

[Burgerman]

https://dietz-power.com/advanced/

Available in:
Australia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Finland
Germany
Hong Kong
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Norway
Russia
Spain
Switzerland
United Kingdom

But not USA. Why? Distorted market, over regulation, insurance etc.

[expresso]

it seems that i have the bad kind of tippy then - seating functions - i need - so that cant be helped - chairs to choose from - limited

6x6 chairs to me were the best of the choices - between style and speed - i do fine with my chair - for the most part - around the city etc,

its really only hills - steeper ones not good - only way to fix that - is leave it stock wheels - seating - thats not going to happen either -

so it is what it is - now i know why it behaves the way it does - its an Hybrid

the name itself dosnt bother me - and the chair is still great to me - i just know now why - its too bad - out of my control

i am good for many years - we see when the time comes -

[fishinjunky]

when the time comes for me to get a new chair im just going to get another Bounder with offroad tires but keep in mind i like the chains reminds me of my dirt bike days and they have been rugged and reliable. Many dont like the chains for understandable reasons. I also like the looks of Bounders some dont. Reminds me of a offroad jeep 4x4 not not a street car. BUT im in a situation where I live if you want to go anywhere you need something super rugged and offroad capable thats somewhat manageable indoors. The Bounder is perfect for where i live. If my bounder is still running good in 5 years. Then I would get a the q500r or q700r if they become avaliable in 5 years from now in the U.S or import one. But no invacare for me SCREW linx

[expresso]

https://www.magicmobility.com.au/wheelc ... heelchair/

this is called a Hybrid RWD also - dosnt look like it is

then this chair is the same chair with larger rear tires and its not called a hybrid - so what gives - ??

https://www.magicmobility.com.au/wheelc ... heelchair/


if you can point out the difference ? i dont see it other than rear tires - hybrid skinny - the other fat tires - thats all i can see -

here in the states - the insurance and the manufacturers are in the same bed - they work hand and hand - MWD and FWD or Hybrid - are considered good in home use chairs - according to them - not that they care what the user wants - there fore they offer and do them most often because its easier to get approved etc, funded -

what good would it do the manufacturer to offer RWD when the insurance gives them a hard time - vendors dont want to work at it - they want simple easy funding and done -

its easier to justify a MWD or Hybrid for indoor use - thats how i feel about it - may not be 100% correct but its somewhat - and the user wont get the straight answer anyway even if you ask -

sooner or later - not many options for RWD chairs here - not any good ones

[Burgerman]

By then who knows what wwill be available.

[expresso]

By then who knows what wwill be available.

if it keeps going the way its been - nothing RWD will be or the pride only which i wouldnt take for free - or maybe i will and sell it after

the experts are making the choices for us - by not offering them - so there you go - you cant get them - so your stuck with what the experts say you need - not what you want -

you have a choice - pick any MWD or FWD chair -- thats the choice soon - invacare is the only brand that always had a RWD -

too bad no Rnet with it - and slow

[Burgerman]

Then *CHANGE* the system. Dont sit and wait to see what happens do something about it.

[Jay_x]

Magic Mobility was bought by Sunrise? wow, I had no idea, interesting

As far as the chains on the bounder go, they are a pain in the ass in terms of constantly needing to be maintained, tightened up, greased up, etc. Also a tiny rock kicked up into the chain on my bounder and got into the gear housing and destroyed the chain, the braking system and a few other things. Its just weird their is no protective housing on it IMO

[Jay_x]

https://www.magicmobility.com.au/wheelchairs/frontier-v4-hybrid-rwd-electric-wheelchair/

this is called a Hybrid RWD also - dosnt look like it is

then this chair is the same chair with larger rear tires and its not called a hybrid - so what gives - ??

https://www.magicmobility.com.au/wheelc ... heelchair/


if you can point out the difference ? i dont see it other than rear tires - hybrid skinny - the other fat tires - thats all i can see -

I see zero difference at all and don't see why that one model is described as a hybrid. Both are RWD in my book.

[Jay_x]

Okay I figured it out, its not a RWD/MWD hybrid. that is not what they are referring to

Its an indoor/outdoor hybrid. The other one is listed as "off road" so it has big tires and intended specifically for off roading. The one called a hybrid has smaller tires and is meant for both indoors and outdoors.

[swalker]

Magic Mobility was bought by Sunrise? wow, I had no idea, interesting

Here is the announcement on the Magic Mobility site. https://www.magicmobility.com.au/magic- ... e-medical/

Steve

[Jay_x]

you know this would then explain why sunrise discontinued their RWD chairs!

They likely figured they will just replace their own RWD chairs with the V4

Makes sense now that I think about it

[Burgerman]

Does it? Why is the rear drive q500 and q700 available in the rest of the world then?

And they also sell the mid drive Q500 and V6 in the USA too and they have not stopped that?

[expresso]

right - and sunrise also stated under there RWD chairs - showing the 6x6 and its not a true RWD - as i just found out - how would anyone know or why would i not think its RWD when its under the RWD section

they do what they want - tell you what they want you know and nothing else

good luck - it will get worse in time - like everything else in the world - going to shit slowly

[Burgerman]

Is it?

We live in a time where lifespans across the planet have risen to the longest ever in the history of mankind. And still rising. And more of that is in health and comfort and security.

Where the least people starve, and breath the cleanest air of anytime in history. Try looking in any city in the days of coal. We have abundant food, sanitation, clean water, warm heated homes, transport, medical care, and more luxuries again than at any other time in human history.

Across the poor parts of the planet this is also true. Never have less starved or died from inadequate protection from the elements.Or ignorance and medical problems. All built on free market capitalism and oil. And here too lifespans increased imesurably. Less infant deaths, less starvation, heat, water, light and medical care all improved and still are doing. And you have the best and healthyist lives, with the least amount of work time and the greatest amount of leisure time and the highest living standards again of any time in human history. With the lowest deaths from desease, extreme weather, and every other possible measurable metric now than anytime previously.

What is going to shit again?

[expresso]

everything - health insurance - medical - its getting worse and worse to get anything done or paid for - customer service for just about anything - is a joke -

its all a machine - never get to speak to anyone - press 1 for this or that - its not what you need by the time you speak to a person - you give up most of the times

food is expensive - housing is out of this world - its almost across the board -


how does 8000 a night sound for a hospital bed - sound about right ?

is that an improvement you think - how much was it before then ? its all a joke - no one can pay either way - so whats the point

like wheelchairs 48,000 - or some show 75,000 who pays it - no one does - not those prices - in the end they may get 10,000 so whats the point - its stupid and retarded

[Burgerman]

All of that is actually just ONE thing. And as I said, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Did you read the post I just posted? Your issues are a microscopic problem in the face of a massive improvement over time of EVERYTHING that matters. You are sitting in a warm heated flat, with several powerchairs and money and food. And water and sanitation. And light. Thats the dream of people throughout history.

You dont look at the big picture. Why dont you attempt to do something about it? Get a huge group of insurers, suppliers, and users together for a meeting and discuss. And follow it up!!! Thats how stuff gets changed. Work at it.

[nld3]

I tried a demo of this chair & I Liked it a lot more than my Amysystems Alltrack R3 Hybrid. It drives so much better than the Amy especially in tight spaces. I am going to demo the Invacare AVIVA STORM RX next week.

[Burgerman]

The R version the rest of the world gets is coming to usa soon.

[steves1977uk]

I am going to demo the Invacare AVIVA STORM RX next week.

That will have the LiNX control system which is a pain to get set up right. I believe fishinjunky can tell you how awkward it is to program.

Steve

[fishinjunky]

I am going to demo the Invacare AVIVA STORM RX next week.

That will have the LiNX control system which is a pain to get set up right. I believe fishinjunky can tell you how awkward it is to program.

Steve

like Steve said its a pain. I would avoid anything with linx electronics as the only option for electronics. I would probably get the q500r with r-net or some rwd with r-net.

With linx if you ever break anything good luck finding used parts for a reasonable price you will have to buy very expensive new. Programming is sketchy hard to decipher. Could lose oem access at any time.

[nld3]

Did this chair get canceled? I was going to buy one in a about 6 months!