what is fishtail?

[Burgerman]

Where are you?
From sunrise its not cheap Around 1k?
From permobil its the same thing but
From PG drives direct not sure. How does your mobility gear get funded?

[Burgerman]

Its somewhat expensive!

But being disabled isnt cheap. And it appears that you NEED this. If the person that assessed you knew what they were doing you would be sat in a 4mph REAR DRIVE chair, with everything properly configured, and with this joystick, and the chair properly programmed. And you would have no issues. But you were assessed by someone that appears to have no idea what they are doing.

You could just try fitting a linger knob. On a stock joystick. But you are likely to damage it sooner or later. But you really need a REAR DRIVE chair for high speed stability. They are self correcting AS WELL.

[q700m]

https://www.amazon.it/Ritchey-Wcs-Manop ... th=1&psc=1
like this one?

[q700m]

Where are you?
From sunrise its not cheap Around 1k?
From permobil its the same thing but
From PG drives direct not sure. How does your mobility gear get funded?

it costs a lot for me, to be in Italy

[Burgerman]

Carlo67 is using this:

No idea what it is, but you might ask him.

[q700m]

I would need a joystich with a greater strength

[Burgerman]

Yes. The one I already showed you but was too expensive...
And a REAR DRIVE chair, and all the rest.

You follow the exact list of things that I keep on posting. Which you always ignore, and then think you can fix it with programming.

1. YOUR CHAIR is not a stable platform. It behaves as an unstable platform. The faster you go the more the chair WANTS to change turn.
A REAR DRIVE chair IS a stable platform. The faster it goes the more it wants to go straight.
So even without all the other things I suggested this will cure most your problem.

2. You dont have the hand or control capability or joystick skills to properly control a chair. So you NEED a different input device, possibly a longer joystick handle for e.g.
This too will probably cure your problem. Or make things MUCH better. This requires a different joystick.

3. You need lower geared (slower speed) motors. Because this will cure the stability issue at speed, but it also means that they will be better able to control the steering of your chair due to their higher torque. So turn speeds will be similar at all speeds.
This alone will probably cure much of the problem.

4. Your seating is all wrong!

5. Your joystick position and mount is all wrong.

6 You will never have any semblence of control with your legs waving around in mid air.

Sort out ALL of the above. Then your problems will be gone. You have everything possible wrong. No amount of programming will help unless you first sort out all of the above.

So as usual, here we go all over again.

ALL of this is needed.

[Burgerman]

Also watch this, this is carlo joystick. https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... p?id=19890

Its longer and so less sensitive and carlo needs that and so do you. But thats not ALL you need if you want better control and directional stability at speed.

[q700m]

Also watch this, this is carlo joystick. https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... p?id=19890

Its longer and so less sensitive and carlo needs that and so do you. But thats not ALL you need if you want better control and directional stability at speed.

this link makes me download Carlo's settings

[Burgerman]

Oops. Go to his thread.

[Burgerman]

Oops. Go to his thread.

OR https://we.tl/t-3lSV0Sldo5

[q700m]

AES rate ranges from 40 to 100
when it corrects more at 40 or 100?

[Burgerman]

Define CORRECT.
What is it that you think that this actually does?

AES will not help you. Your problem is that YOU put in too much turn or correction and the chair correctly responds. Because its mid drive it does this significantly at speed and you dont like it.

[q700m]

If I set it to 100, is it as if it were not activated?

[Burgerman]

3rd time. 2nd thread. #
What is it that you think that this actually does?

[q700m]

3rd time. 2nd thread. #
What is it that you think that this actually does?

if I ask you and you ask me, then there are also language problems

[Burgerman]

The reason I ask is because I do not think you know what it does. It will not help you. If you knew what it did exactly and set it correctly you would know this.

[q700m]

The reason I ask is because I do not think you know what it does. It will not help you. If you knew what it did exactly and set it correctly you would know this.

I don't know what it does exactly.
can I ask you the favour of explaining it?
thank you

[daveonwheels]

its been explained,in two threads.

[Burgerman]

I will do it again.
You wont understand it.
Then you will start all over trying to fix your control problems with programming. And that is not where your problems are.
We have been over this repeatedly.

What it does.
It increases motor load compensation when traveling in a straight line so that if a wheel sees more load (like some grass, or a rock/pot hole) it adds more power to the loaded wheel. In this way it attempts to keep the chair straight at all speeds (but mostly at low speeds as load compensation does nothing at high speed).
But this makes the steering MORE twitchy, more responsive to the joystick and the opposite to what you need. The more you add the worse this gets. So turn it off. Its used in situations where the person controlling the chair cannot correct the direction and is using say latched control or non proportional buttons.

[q700m]

tried.
At low speeds it has no efect.
At high speed ,with low settings as soon as I move the joystich the chair skids
by raising the settings nothing happens.
why?

[Burgerman]

I already told you what it does. Repeatedly. And why you DO NOT WANT IT.
And also how to fix your problems as best as is actually possible which you always completely ignore.

At low speeds it has no efect.

I does. But your programming settings and lack of control ability due to your joystick skills doesent allow you to feel this. You do not have the nessassary hand skills to tell what is happening.

At high speed ,with low settings as soon as I move the joystich the chair skids
by raising the settings nothing happens.
why?

For all the same reasons that I already explained over and over. It looks at wheel current, and adds to the heaviest loaded one. In an attempt to COMPENSATE to keep it straight. Or wherever you inadvertantly push the joystick. And you cant do it accurately. It doesent do anything you want. Turn it off. It will not help you.

[q700m]

front whell drive
How can I tell if it helps me or not?

[Burgerman]

I give up.
Go back, read all the previous threads. Already replied to this and all the other questions repeatedly.

And programming further, no matter what you do will not help you. You need to do a bunch of different changes. As already explained over and over. I ran out of different ways to explain the same things months ago!

Did you do all the things I already suggested? Because once you do, thats as good as its going to get.

[q700m]

I have to take back the rear wheel drive groove ma it is 12 years old,because the q700m at 1 year old and I don't think they change it

[Burgerman]

I have many chairs. Some are 23 years old. And with a little care as good as new.

The groove, it didnt have these problems did it?
And your control of that chair because it was rear drive was easier and it didnt "swerve" when you attempted to correct its control either did it?
That chair can be improved further by adding a LONGER stronger joystick.

Now that is what you needed.

There are plenty of new rear drive chairs. And quality new ones. I bought a chair with power seat (lift, tilt, recline, power legs) - which I changed to power centre mount legs in the price. And it had SINGLE DIGIT miles. Basically it was never used. £4200 inc a 120A power module, 6mph 4 pole motors, switches for seating, and a CJSM2 joystick.

Here. https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... 33#p171026

If you try you can find something similar.
And or fix and repair the Groove?
Sell the mid drive chair because its not suitable for you. Buy a rear drive 6mph (10kph max) chair.

[q700m]

the groove has the same alectronics as the q700m
13km/ h 4pole motors120A control unit
reclining and tilting footrest all electrically adjustable joystich lcd without paddle buttons
i will take it back to understand the difference of driving

[daveonwheels]

those 2 chairs are VERY different. it's sad you do not understand this

[Burgerman]

Rememember that list that I keep posting and that you keep ignoring?
Theres a REASON that I posted it.

The reason is that IT IS NOT ELECTRONICS or PROGRAMMING that is the problem here. No amount of adjusting it any further will ever help you. Programming must be correct. But it is a PART of the problem here. And no matter what you do you will never fix this completely with your joystick skills capability.

Bashing the joystick around whilst looking like you are having an epileptic fit is the problem. You have almost zero fine control or "feel". But you expect the chair to behave properly.

the groove has the same alectronics as the q700m

ALL chairs have either the same or very similar electronics, so what?

13km/ h 4pole motors120A control unit

The new chair has chinese linix motors, and the groove has 8mph AMT (13kph) german motors. They are very different. Groove has correct compensation when set to 45mOhm. Linix motors at 8mph (13kph) are normally 30 or 35mOhm. But you say yours are 45.
But with your control skills you do not want 13kph motors. You need 6mph 10kph ones anyway.

reclining and tilting footrest all electrically adjustable joystich lcd without paddle buttons
i will take it back to understand the difference of driving

The difference is that REAR DRIVE is a DIRECTIONALLY STABLE platform. MID DRIVE is not. It isnt even mid drive really as the CG is behind the drive wheels. So its not even neutral it is unstable. So mid drives EXHADURATE any turn input. Rear drive DAMPENS any turn input and wants to go straight.

Over and over and over and over and over and...

[q700m]

the first reading with the usb dongle from the groove control unit
the motor compensation was 45 mohm. it was right as you say yu.
the first reading with the usb dongle from the unit of the Q700M
the motor compensation was 40 mohm not 30 or 35 as you say.
if I set it to 30 it's not wrong because you know everything about electric chairs