Permobil F5 VS - Vertical Standing Power Chair

[Marcelo]

Hello, I bought a Permobil F5 VS - Vertical Standing Power Chair. I don't stand up, so I removed the support wheels at the front, removed the axle with tauador and everything; then the error that I already expected appeared, ''ICS: MODULLE ERROR 2179''. How to solve? simulate this actuator motor? or will I have to go back at least with the engine and connect to end the error?

[Burgerman]

Its a mystery. Its PERMOBILS ICS.

[Marcelo]

Its a mystery. Its PERMOBILS ICS.

I will replace the engine if necessary. lol

[Marcelo]

Its a mystery. Its PERMOBILS ICS.

I will turn the engine back if necessary.

[Flagmax]

Just googling, it seem the main/master controller Cannot communicate on the LIN bus with the module for the standing feature. So it needs to be plugged in or if possible disabled in software by dealer. Its likely part of the actuator if it has 3 wires. To emulate this module is not an easy matter as you would have to capture the packets and play them back. So try plug the actuator in. Then maybe you could separate the module out of the actuator. You also will likely have to bypass the limit switches so the module doesn't freaks out and reports a different error.

[Marcelo]

Just googling, it seem the main/master controller Cannot communicate on the LIN bus with the module for the standing feature. So it needs to be plugged in or if possible disabled in software by dealer. Its likely part of the actuator if it has 3 wires. To emulate this module is not an easy matter as you would have to capture the packets and play them back. So try plug the actuator in. Then maybe you could separate the module out of the actuator. You also will likely have to bypass the limit switches so the module doesn't freaks out and reports a different error.

Thanks for the information Flagimax! I went back
just the actuator module and reset the power plant, we tested it and it seems that everything is fine for now ok.

[Burgerman]

I'm confused. Which module have you added back in? And plugged it into what?

[Flagmax]

I'm confused. Which module have you added back in? And plugged it into what?

He is basically trying to remove everything has to do with the "stand up" function of his chair. I am guessing the module that is on the LIN Bus that controls the actuators that lowers/raises the front anti tip wheels.

[rover220]

you need to uninstall the actuator in wheelchair builder.

[Marcelo]

I'm confused. Which module have you added back in? And plugged it into what?

Hello Burguerman, in the actuator motor there is a mini module. I separated the engine module and came back with only it, understand?

[Marcelo]

I'm confused. Which module have you added back in? And plugged it into what?

Hello Burguerman, in the actuator motor there is a mini module. I separated the engine module and came back with only it, understand?

I eliminated the weight of the motor and actuator.

[Marcelo]

you need to uninstall the actuator in wheelchair builder.

I removed everything friend, I got rid of about 25 pounds and everything is fine, the error has not appeared anymore. Thank you brow!

[Marcelo]

Just googling, it seem the main/master controller Cannot communicate on the LIN bus with the module for the standing feature. So it needs to be plugged in or if possible disabled in software by dealer. Its likely part of the actuator if it has 3 wires. To emulate this module is not an easy matter as you would have to capture the packets and play them back. So try plug the actuator in. Then maybe you could separate the module out of the actuator. You also will likely have to bypass the limit switches so the module doesn't freaks out and reports a different error.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjbSa3vUAA&t=478s

[Marcelo]

you need to uninstall the actuator in wheelchair builder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjbSa3vUAA&t=478s

[Marcelo]

I'm confused. Which module have you added back in? And plugged it into what?

Hello Burguerman, in the actuator motor there is a mini module. I separated the engine module and came back with only it, understand?

I eliminated the weight of the motor and actuator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjbSa3vUAA&t=478s

[slomobile]

Nice!

I did a similar thing with my F3. Removed the legrest actuator because I didn't need it, but had to take the green controller board off the back of the actuator motor and plug it in to make the error go away. It is a LIN bus node for ICS. Everything works as expected without it, the blinking error just gets annoying.

Marcello, if you ever want to sell the standing parts you don't need, I want them. Especially the chest bolster mounts that go on the armrests.

[Marcelo]

Nice!

I did a similar thing with my F3. Removed the legrest actuator because I didn't need it, but had to take the green controller board off the back of the actuator motor and plug it in to make the error go away. It is a LIN bus node for ICS. Everything works as expected without it, the blinking error just gets annoying.

Marcello, if you ever want to sell the standing parts you don't need, I want them. Especially the chest bolster mounts that go on the armrests.

That's right friend, getting rid of unnecessary weight. I only have the support with wheels, the motor and actuator I will keep. Where do you live?

[slomobile]

I live in Memphis Tennessee USA. Maybe hold onto your parts until you are absolutely sure you won't need them. Front anti tip wheels aren't used very often, but sometimes they save you and you might want them back on. Sudden stops downhill, going over curbs, bridging over some potholes. Glad you are getting your chair the way you like it!

[Marcelo]

I live in Memphis Tennessee USA. Maybe hold onto your parts until you are absolutely sure you won't need them. Front anti tip wheels aren't used very often, but sometimes they save you and you might want them back on. Sudden stops downhill, going over curbs, bridging over some potholes. Glad you are getting your chair the way you like it!

Thank

[slomobile]

Can you post any pictures or video of the F5 VS support wheels removed so we can see how they are actuated?
Really, any info would be appreciated as the F5 VS service manual does not appear to be online and only the standard non-VS support wheels are shown in the exploded views. https://order-uk.permobil.com/en/content/exploded-views

This is my use case https://youtu.be/NKFM4EHsf84
With the standard anti tip front support wheels, I need them on the highest setting to get up my van ramp. But need them on lowest setting to prevent pitching forward when stopping on a downhill. Given my weight and forward center of gravity, it happens too often for comfort. I'd like to set up a gyro/accelerometer to sense when I am about to tip, then deploy the support wheels.

[Burgerman]

Why are you staying so far over the front?
Move the seating or whatever that is back. Or turn it around so it drives the right way and it will allow you to dump that permobil gyro and program it so it steers properly at the same time.

[slomobile]

I do have a seat reverasal profile for when I put my feet on the casters and ride it backwards for brief periods.
But I need to be horizontal and prone most of the time for my back. Flatter the better. That position fits my body within the length of the chair and it puts CG just slightly behind the drive wheels making excellent traction and very low resistance to turning because the casters are unloaded.

I've improved the design a bit since then, just never made a new video.

[slomobile]

https://wheelchairghost.com/Files/MakeItMine.mp4
shows an F5 VS with the front cover off at about 12:09 into the video.
Its fairly plain how the short actuator raises and lowers the support wheels.

I officially really want that assembly now. Don't need the motor control board, just the heavy parts.