BEST PLUG & PLAY LITHIUM WHEELCHAIR BATTERIES

[PayitForwardinLife]

Hands down the best off the shelf lithium batteries for wheelchairs is the Abyss 120AH 12V Group 24 Battery. I had a pair in my Invacare SP2 and Permobil F5 chairs. Top quality cells and German engineered BMS. Tripled my range. About $2,500 for a pair. Great tech support and US made in Florida. Has Bluetooth and works with iPhone. DO NOT buy Dakota Lithium batteries! Crap batteries. Horrible customer service. Tons of complaints on BBB website.

I live on steep hills. Because of the internal resistance on typical AGM or Gel batteries ALL my chairs in the 33 years I’ve been using them when going up steep long hills the battery cables, connectors and electronics get real hot and the chairs overheat, slowdown and turn off. Burned out tons off cables, connectors and power modules because of the internal resistance in AGM and GEL batteries. With lithium ever changed! No more overheating, fried connectors, power modules or the chairs slowing down under heavy loads. Lithium batteries (the right ones!) ARE LIFE CHANGERS! Period! Worth the money SOOO Much!

Working with a manufacture right now to build a universal 24V 200AH LifePO4 drop in replacement for wheelchairs. Should be available by March..

[Burgerman]

THIS would not work in my powerchairs.

Max. Continuous Discharge Current 120A

Because once programmed to "go" you can reach 240A drain for a couple of seconds say as you accelerate up a slope. 2x 120A r-net for e.g. The built in BMS will cut power completely. It can provide more but only for 0.3 of a second. This is why most drop in replacements are problematic.

But many here for years are already doing 230Ah replacement lifepo4, In a slightly more adanced setup with no limiting BMS and so works in all scenarios. Which gives approx 5x the range of the old group24 lead bricks they replace. So approx 100 mile. And at least a 20 year service life.

But for many that cant do that tech stuff, a drop in 200Ah would give them 4x the range even if it had to have a BMS on board (spits ) which isnt needed or wanted if done properly. If the prce was sensible (24V 230Ah can be around 1k fitted) then I might buy a set to test. As long as stock grp24 sized. And 240A continuous rated.

[Burgerman]

I might add that doing it properly as many have on this forum you can fit 230Ah lithium, no BMS, and charge at a much more realistic 40Ah an get at least 5x the range with no problematic BMS, for half of the cost of those batteries. That makes them 1/4 the cost per Ah, with double the range.

[martin007]

For what they cost, I prefer the cells that Burgerman uses.

[Burgerman]

Its really not just the cost advantage. Its the no BMS reliability problems and proper charge capability allowing us to set very advantageous cell balance settings and lower charge voltages and the ability to have 230Ah all at the same time. So cells can give a far superior lifespan than in a plug n play lead brick swap. I may have found some even bigger A grade cells that will be even better. That will still fit into the same GRP24 space too. Waiting for an email at the moment. These things keep on getting more and more energy dense.

100 mile range in real world conditions with some reserve is already pretty good though. And at 40A charge, proper smooth proportional 1 to 3A cell balancing we can recharge that 100 miles back inside of 5.5 hours. Or if you prefer I can put back 20 miles every hour! Going out in the evening? Just wack 20Ah back in in 30 mins. And I can do that from a car or at home while watching and graphing everything on my laptop...

You could easily do this too. You already have half the requirements, the ZXD 0-50A and 0-60V power supply being wasted on lead dont you?
So you would need 8 cells, a small balance lead, and a few cables making up. Depending on which cells, that can be as cheap as 2 sets of lead bricks. And thats for 5x the usable capacity! And a several decade long service life. So actually very cheap!

[martin007]

The problem is that lead bricks are subsidized after S.S...

[Burgerman]

Are they? But then you are restricted in range, have range anxiety, and retricted travel. You dont realize it but you subconciously restrict your behaviour and miss out on many things. I took about a year to fully change my attitude and to really understand quite how you can go literally anywhere you want. Once you lose the running out of battery inhibitions the distances and places you actually go to on a warm day increase by a massive margin. Next town 20 mile away? No problem. Go twice. And still have a 20% reserve remaining which makes them last decades. And no danger of running out.

I just DO more go much further than I ever did 20 years ago. I have had lithium starting with 98Ah, then 120Ah 15 years ago. Now we can fit enough that you CANT use it all in one day unless you are going up a mountain! I have 2 additional chairs still with lead. I didnt convert those so far. Those 2 will be getting 230Ah each in the spring. Because the stupid 80Ah (45 usable) lead bricks slow down my life. I have to say no too often. Cant meet people in town a few miles away for a meal or drinks. Because I went into town shopping/bank etc earlier. I dont get this with lithium. Ever. Even if I didnt charge for 4 or 5 days!

Yes the gov buy you useless lead bricks. Use them for solar storage etc. Or sell them. Dont let that restrict your chair use. You only live once!

[martin007]

Now the lead bricks (news) covers my needs.

[Burgerman]

Thats what I used to think in the 90s. Then I got lithium in the early noughties and realised that I WAS restricting my daily options. As I said, lead sort of calibrates your brain and you only attempt or think about that which you know you can do. And if you go far you keep looking at that battery gauge...

I never do now. It reads a full set of lights all day long. If you fit ENOUGH Ah it means that you dont need any means of battery metering. Because it will go much further than you ever could. That helps the battery life decades too. So all range anxiety gone! Always maximise Ah when fitting lithium as it has so many advantages not only range.

[martin007]

If I adopt lithium I think the best option is to use cells like yours.

[Burgerman]

You need:

8 of these:
These will fit where 2 group 24 batteries come out.
https://shop.gwl.eu/en/By-Brand-Manufac ... hparam=230

If you use a proper cell balancing charger, these quality B grade cells can also work. I have one. For testing. It measures the correct capacity, as tested by the PL8 and aparently these are quality cells. Also low resistance when tested with my 4 wire impedance tester. Super cheap at £79 each...
So £560 quid for a 230Ah pack. Thats crazy cheap. These may or may not be OK with a BMS but I wouldnt trust that to properly balance any grade B cell. Hobby style charger like the PL8 with PC control allows you to be sure that its all correct! And has far better balancing capability than a BMS anyway.

https://www.fogstar.co.uk/collections/l ... ll-grade-b

[ex-Gooserider]

Hmmm.... I may be paranoid, but this is sort of tripping my SPAM detector... Two posts, right after joining, and one is a product plug???

Because of the internal resistance on typical AGM or Gel batteries ALL my chairs in the 33 years I’ve been using them when going up steep long hills the battery cables, connectors and electronics get real hot and the chairs overheat, slowdown and turn off. Burned out tons off cables, connectors and power modules because of the internal resistance in AGM and GEL batteries. With lithium ever changed! No more overheating, fried connectors, power modules or the chairs slowing down under heavy loads.

This doesn't quite make sense - how do heavy loads 'burn out cables'??? I've seen cautions recently about spammers starting to use AI to generate semi-plausible content, and this sort of feels like that....

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Low battery resistance doesent really affect cables. It might warm the lead bricks a little. The actual high current bit is limited by the controller limit, at around 120A per channel. At least on a 120A system. But this remains the exact same regardless of battery.

Yes it sounds a bit spammy when you look at 2 posts, and both dropping the same link. Human or bot. But they will only work for a less powerful chair or a chair programmed like most stock ones anyway. 120A max is far less than actually needed by my chair for e.g. Saw my rnet system at around 160A in my hallway at the battery while wheelying! Clamp meter. I think that he isnt a bot but maybe doesent realise how many here have been using lithium for at least a decade so is excited by the result!

[Burgerman]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006 ... 00819155_9

Super cheap lithiums.

And the last time the original poster logged in was when he dropped the 2 links. So I am going to delete them. Dont like spammers.

[Burgerman]

Also, forget the limited power levels or amps that the spammer was trying to push, these are:
BIGGER Ah, can do plenty of current and can in fact start a car. And on top of this they are much higher C rate cells, so last longer, charge faster, and give better range.
And they can be used below zero C in icy conditions as they are designed WITH a heater pad in them for use in a car.

So these make 3 of those ones the spammer linked to.
https://dakotalithium.com/product/dl-pl ... rformance/

Those are the ONLY ones I might be tempted to give a try. All the rest cant do the current levels that many of use need.