Plug and play

[martin007]

This topic is about joystick control modules.

Suppose I have 2 identical powerchairs.
Both powerchairs have a VR2 joystick.

Is it possible to replace (P2P) the joysticks with 100% confidence that everything will work correctly?
I think that in case of doing so it may be necessary to configure it again.


Now suppose I have an RNET joystick and I connect it to the two powerchairs.
RNET is plug and play.
I think it should work correctly in 100% of the cases in both powerchairs.



Am I reflecting correctly?

[Burgerman]

Yes. Because all the programming settings on all PG systems is in the power module. Usually under the seat. The only time that may not work is on the tiny toy like all in one units where the joystick IS also the power module. Those are not used on serious powerchairs though.

[Burgerman]

Yes. Because all the programming settings on all PG systems is in the power module. Usually under the seat. The only time that may not work is on the tiny toy like all in one units where the joystick IS also the power module. Those are not used on serious powerchairs though.

[martin007]

What if the powerchair has a VR2 (or Pilot) but lacks a power module?

[Burgerman]

Then the programming is wherever the power module is. So these are called all in one units. Those are rubish anyway. Not used on any serious powerchair.

[martin007]

Then the programming is wherever the power module is. So these are called all in one units. Those are rubish anyway. Not used on any serious powerchair.

I have been using one of these for 25 years.

[Burgerman]

They dont have enough power. Restricted in current and many cases in programming options and some cannot be programmed.

You need to get with the flow! Move on!

Why are they restricted? Because realistically you cannot sensibly send 2x 120A up to the joystick, and back to each motor down long thin cables as the resistance is too high. Or there would be a bunch of massive cables! And then while trying to control this current heat is produced. When its under the seat in a big metal power module it can lose it faser. Its bolted to metal. Its got a large surfae area. On the joystick it would be really hot!

So these things are limited to short term use up to around 25 to 40A typically. Thats nowhere close to making adequate torque for proper control. That requires 100 to 120 Amps per motor.

[Burgerman]

Its why I have 3X 100A units on chairs.
2X 120A units also on chairs.
And 3 spare ones all preprogrammed up ready to plug and play if any fail...

[martin007]

I agree with you.
I'm aware that it is a way to reduce costs.
I'm just a powerchair user with little money.

[martin007]

Sorry.

[Burgerman]

And in fact 3 complete spare 120A systems complete with cables, battery looms, seating actuators etc while the going was good/cheap.

[Burgerman]

No the configuration is not in the joysticks. Those are plug and play.

The configuration is all in the power module. LAST PHOTO ABOVE and I labled them!

Those are all programmed ready to swap out in case of failure.

You say you dont have the money. But doing this my way actually works out cheaper! Batteries last at least till I am dead. Whatever fails on my chairs I have spares. no waiting, complete instant security. And I bought all of the spare r-net stuff for around 1.2K several years back. I have sold some parts for more that PAID for it. It owes me nothing. Likewise I bought a complete lift/tilt module for 100 from memory. It will fit 3 of my chairs n the event any actuators fail. Likewise I have spare sets of motors, seating parts, tyres, wheels, etc. All plug and play just in case. I hate to rely of others that seem slow and incapable.

You have to get organised!

[martin007]

A clarification.

VR2 with power mudule -> The programming is in the joystick.

RNET with power mudule -> The programming is in the power mudule.

[Burgerman]

A clarification.

VR2 with power mudule -> The programming is in the joystick.

RNET with power mudule -> The programming is in the power mudule.

OK I will try a different way.
In every case if theres a SEPERATE power module, which is all serious powerchairs for 20 years, then the programming is in the power module.
If its an ALL IN ONE joystick, then there IS no other place that the programming can be right? So in this case it is inside the joystick because that is where the power electronics live as well!

This is PG stuff.

Dynamic controls for e.g are the opposite and very complicated best avoid.

[martin007]

OK.

So a VR2 with control module is also plug an play?

[Burgerman]

I have run out of ways to explain this.
EVERY part of R-Net is plug and play.

But if you change a POWER MODULE for one that is not programmed for your chair then theres a good chance it wont work. Or will zoom off out of control, or only go backwards or whatever. At very least you need to set up motor compensaion and brake voltage correctly.

And the POWER MODULE is inside an ALL IN ONE JOYSTICK.
Or a seprate part under the seat like most proper powerchairs depending on the system/powerchair.

Now I give up!

[martin007]

Sorry.
Thanks.

[Burgerman]

No need to be sorry! Quite funny actually!

So do you now get it?

[martin007]

In the case of RNET, yes.

[Burgerman]

OK well all PG products work exactly the same. So on VR2 if theres a SEPERATE power module thats where the programming lives And joysticks can be freely swapped.

[Burgerman]

EVERYTHING here https://www.cw-industrial.com/getmedia/ ... m?ext=.pdf
Works just the same as R-Net.

Never saw an all in one VR2. Didnt even know they existed. But if they do, and theres no seperate power module, where exactly do you think the programming lives?

[martin007]

https://es.wallapop.com/item/vendo-sill ... -413475200


F35 (old)
VR2 with the integrated power module the the joystick.

[Burgerman]

So then, i cant read spanish, but if theres no seperate power module then where do you think its programming could be?

Waiting for the obvious realisation to hit...

[martin007]

You just have to look at the photographs.

[Burgerman]

The photographs do not tell me anything. It doesent look like VR2 and I cant see under the seat...
Nor does it answer my queston!

Lets say you were right and a VR2 can be an all in one single joystick module. Where would you think the programming now goes? There is only ONE place right? It has to go in the joystick.

But as I said, I never saw a VR2 that had no power module under the seat. And I have had little to do with VR2 as its not got much power. 50 to 90A maximum and thats not really enough.

However a quick look at the PG Drives website allows me to look at their tech sheet for VR2.

On page 26 it clearly says:

1.5 CONTROL SYSTEM MAKE-UP
The VR2 Control System is made-up of a minimum of 2 modules, the Joystick Module and the Power Module. The following
table shows the relationship between the two modules.

So I am still not convinced that PG make an ALL IN ONE VR2 but they do make all in one VSI systems.
Take a look.
http://sunrise.pgdrivestechnology.com/m ... 898-05.pdf page 25, and 1.5:

[martin007]

Maybe it's an all in one VSI.

[Burgerman]

Ah well then thats possible!

So now we established that its not got a power module, where exactly does this leave to store all the programming and settings?

You cant store them in the battery. You cant store digital code in the motors. Theres no power module. SO have a guess...

[Burgerman]

VSI is dead jim. Now we have new vsi...
https://www.cw-industrial.com/getmedia/ ... e?ext=.pdf
With a mind blowing improved 50A and has cooling holes etc which still wont pull the skin off a rice pudding.
But it will overheat easily and throttle back even further!

[martin007]

I want to raise a related question before I forget.
Suppose I have a power chair and a motor is break.
The control module is in perfect condition.
I get a motor exactly the same and replace it.

I think the powerchair should work properly.
Am I 100% correct?
What could possibly go wrong?

[Burgerman]

Nothing. If it has the same motor impedance, same brake voltage. All is great.
Or else everything goes wrong! Unless you re-set this correctly in programming to match new motors. Takes minutes.