Sure Grip Spinner knob defect wrecked my van!

[ex-Gooserider]

I had a serious accident with my van this afternoon, fortunately I was not hurt but the van has major damage...

This was caused by what seems to be a clearly defective A600 spinner knob from Sure-Grip https://www.suregrip-handcontrols.com/s ... heelattach This is a knob that was sold to me by Mobility Works as part of my adapted van hand controls.... SureGrip is one of the big name hand control manufacturers, so we are not talking some sort of 'cheap Chinesium' off of Amazon (or maybe we are???)

This afternoon while making a tight turn at about 35mph, the plastic knob pulled off the steel shaft that is what goes into the steering wheel bracket... This caused me to lose control and bounce off a guard rail....

The shaft is just a slick piece of steel with no grooving or knurls that the knob could have been molded into, so the plastic knob is obviously just a press / friction fit....

I have already filed a complaint with the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) and hope that it will lead to a recall... In the meantime I'd strongly advise folks w/ adaptive vehicles to look at their knobs and consider asking about replacing them if they are aSure-Grip A600, at least the one with the plain 'golf ball' style knob - I'm not sure about the other sorts, but would definitely be asking some hard questions....

ex-Gooseerider

[Burgerman]

Nice!

[woodygb]

https://www.automationmag.com/getting-a ... -printing/

Howell expects that installing cobots will help the company to stop relying on less-expensive labour in China, and to save on some costs precipitated by the COVID-19 lockdowns. Before March, Sure Grip employed 39 people. Now they’re at 33 – but at their lowest point on March 31, they were down to 12.

[Burgerman]

Well thats working out great.

[slomobile]

I'm so glad you are OK. Hoping no one else was hurt.

Will the van be taken care of by insurance and Mobility Works and have you back on the road soon?
Its not like you can just get a rental van from Enterprise till yours is fixed. Kind of curious how that gets handled.

I imagine your insurance company will pay a body shop, mechanic, and Mobility Works to evaluate and repair any accessibility equipment. The insurance company may want to file a claim for reimbursement against Mobility Works, the "manufacturer" of the van since they modified it from its OEM condition and recertified it to the FMVSS (federal motor vehicle safety standard). There is probably a sticker in your door jamb stating something to that effect. You will want a photo of that evidence before the van is totaled. Then Mobility Works may want to make a claim against Sure Grip. In theory.

Seems like Mobility Works has deeper pockets and greater liability due to a higher standard of care since they sold and certified the whole van (with the knob). Subjecting them to many testing requirements and federal consumer protection laws that would not apply to the manufacturer of a plastic knob subject to only state law. That affords you a greater opportunity for discovery. Demand the test reports, videos, etc, done by mobility works.

When Mobility Works sold the van, they were saying in effect "this knob meets or exceeds the federal standards for a steering wheel". If they supplied the knob, it is OEM equipment, not just an accessory. If your Ford van had the steering wheel come off in your hand, would you go after the subcontractor that made the steering wheel for Ford, or would you go after Ford?

The best outcome overall (maybe not for you personally) would probably be if Mobility Works were encouraged to work together with Sure Grip to develop a safer spinner knob ASAP, tested by NHTSA, recertified to FMVSS, and Mobility Works issue a recall to replace the defective ones.
The worst outcome would probably be Sure Grip executives being scared of liability, going out of business ending 33 jobs and availability of spinner knobs in the US.

The major threat to Sure Grip comes from you and your insurance company. Maybe the better outcome happens if you allay their fears and try to get all parties working together. Maybe that is naive.

I'm not a lawyer, may be very wrong in my opinions and knowledge.
I do have a beef against Mobility Works in the way they install rear manual ramps that block access to the rear interior door egress handles. It effectively blocks wheelchair users inside unless opened from the outside by someone else. Van makers successfully lobbied to be excluded from the FMVSS mandate for interior trunk release because they argued that the interior handles serve as that release. It was seperately determined that the interior rear space of a van is topologically similar to a trunk, thus the trunk law applied and an exception was necessary. I've been trying to figure out how to file a complaint about that but just get sent to voicemail that never gets returned. Perhaps there is a way to bundle several complaints against Mobility Works safety practices together into a class action.
The person at Mobility Works that sold me my van claimed to personally be an engineer that selected and installed prototypes for several of the systems they use. I later learned that he is a liar in the grand tradition of used car salesmen and would say anything to get the sale.

This is what I gathered looking for door handle info. Perhaps there is something in there that will help you. Maybe 49 CFR § 38 Subpart A

Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 206, Door locks and door retention components.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... components
"Today's final rule also eliminates an exclusion from the requirements of the standard for doors equipped with wheelchair platform lifts."
"The Executive Committee of the 1998 Agreement charged the Working Party on Passive Safety (GRSP) to form an informal working group to discuss and evaluate relevant issues concerning requirements for door locks and door retention components and to make recommendations regarding a potential GTR.[7]"


49 CFR § 38 Subpart A- General "alternative designs and technologies used will provide substantially equivalent or greater access to and usability of the vehicle."
§ 38.2 Equivalent facilitation.
Departures from particular technical and scoping requirements of these guidelines by use of other designs and technologies are permitted where the alternative designs and technologies used will provide substantially equivalent or greater access to and usability of the vehicle. Departures are to be considered on a case-by-case basis under procedures set forth in § 37.7 of this title.

§ 37.7 Standards for accessible vehicles.
(a) For purposes of this part, a vehicle shall be considered to be readily accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities if it meets the requirements of this part and the standards set forth in part 38 of this title.

Citations gathered from https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/s ... -A/part-38

[swalker]

When my wheelchair van was stolen, my insurance company paid for a rental wheelchair van, which was about $150 per day (in 2019).

The only reason they paid was that when I signed up for the rental vehicle rider on the policy, I specifically asked if it would provide for a wheelchair van if my van was unusable due to a valid claim. They told me (over the phone) that it would.

When it came time for the claim, the insurance company said they would pay for a normal rental vehicle, not an expensive wheelchair van. I reminded them of the conversation. They reviewed their records (they said they kept copies of all the phone conversations) and apparently found they had made this promise. To their credit, they honored what their agent had said over the phone and did pay for the rental wheelchair van.

I was glad they did so!

Steve

[Burgerman]

One way or another someone else is liable. I suggest a legal expert would do more good here and probably end up getting you a new a brand new van and some compensation. Keep recepts for all additional costs regardless of how incidental too. Costs soon add up. Losses due to lack of wheelchair transport, missing apointments, missing a hobby or ball game, having to eat the wrong things as no way to shop, etc. Being disabled without a vehicle is far more life changing and difficult than if you were able bodied. Make sure your soliciter understands this.

[fishinjunky]

wow thats terrible. Glad your ok. That would have scared the shit out of me. It really is a pain to not have a van or personal transportation

[ex-Gooserider]

For what it's worth, I got contacted by Cody Howell, the Sure-Grip CEO, and he claims that I'm the first person this has happened to w/ over 50K of those knobs sold... He has been promising to do what he can to make it right for me, so far money hasn't changed hands however.

According to him, all of their products are tested to existing standards, but that there are NO STANDARDS that apply to spinner knobs - so he can't test to a standard that doesn't exist...

The insurance company (USAA) is insisting that it's my fault because "I failed to maintain control of my vehicle" (W/O explaining how I was supposed to do that under the circumstances) Cody has said not to fight them, and that he would reimburse me for it. He has also promised to pick up the cost of a rental, and tried to arrange a van rental for me - but it seems none are available So I have now made arrangements w/ Enterprise to rent a 'full size' standard car w/ hand controls, which I can do if I use my manual chair and do the 'hang out the door and take the chair apart" drill... Sucks but better than nothing...

I've gotten the appraisal (finally) and initial estimates are just under $8,000. MobilityWorks (Londonderry, NH office) said they don't do bodywork on customer owned cars, and that I should have it taken to a local shop - which I have just arranged to have done.

I will see how it all works out, but will hopefully not need to get a lawyer - seems like they are the only ones that end up getting rich out of these situations. However I'm keeping the knob and shaft from the broken spinner knob, and if I get any problems will start making more trouble...

At any rate, I will NOT be wanting to use another SureGrip knob when I get the car back, I just looked at Amazon, they list over 500 - many are visibly crap, but some look as good or better than the SureGrip product.... (Or I might just make my own...)

ex-Gooserider

[slomobile]

Even if you are the first person to report a spinner failure, it is not the first failure. They now know unequivocally that their current design is insufficient.
They have no excuse if they do not redesign.

[Burgerman]

Well unless someone forces them to do that it becomes a cost/profit/risk analysis. The way I see it is that theres no vast money made from those things so having to fork out for compensation and a replacement van on ONE occurence would more than wipe out any profit they ever made and a risk of more at any time. So they WILL fix it or they must be stupid. To the extent that they should issue a warning and free replacement to every person they ever sold one to. Its financially stupid to do anything else.

[ex-Gooserider]

I now have a Nissan Maxima as a rental - no vans available, but possibly will be later this week (if so I'll swap) I have to do the whole manual chair transfer drill but at least I'm rolling...

I'm not real anxious to make some lawyer rich, but it would be good to see him do some sort of recall....

Will see how things work out.

ex-Gooserider

[ex-Gooserider]

Latest word (earlier today) from the body shop is 39 days estimated time to repair it... However hopefully (it is promised) I will be able to get a rental van on Monday - I'll still have to transfer between the power chair and the drivers seat, but at least I'll be able to use the power chair instead of the manual...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

And who compensates you for the time out, extra struggles, paperwork, phone calls and extra costs? Hopefully that will be the company that made the thing. They will have public liability insurance for such eventualities. If you push them...

[ex-Gooserider]

Well I'm now getting jerked around by Mobility Works, the only available source of accessible vans close to where I live...

Back when I first went through all the 'disabled driver' BS after getting hurt, in order to get Mass. Rehab to help pay for my first van, and also to get my drivers license back, I had a "driver evaluation" done by the adaptive driving instructor, which was required to get the van subsidy... Part of the initial evaluation was actually done using a left-hand push-rock control, because the instructors right hand control had broken on him....

However when discussing what I wanted for controls, because I had long experience as a biker, I said I wanted as close as possible to a 'motorcycle interface' since that was what I was used to.... So he wrote the evaluation saying 'right-hand' controls... The eval was given to Mobility Works as the specs for my first van...

Now Mobility Works is saying that because my evaluation says right hand controls and their rental vans only have left hand controls, that they won't rent to me....

My valid Mass drivers license only says 'hand controls'... I'm currently driving a rental car with left hand controls... I've used a 'universal' control system (left handed) so it isn't a big deal for anyone else...

Complaints have been filed w/ Mass Commission on Disability, and the US Department of Justice....

I'll be looking at other potential sources for help tomorrow...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Sounds like a right mess about and over complication.

When I became paralised, no evaluation, no anything. Just wrote to the licence agency and informed them. They said carry on. I already was. Then I drive anything that I have a licence for which includes bikes, trikes, cars, vans, tractors, and anything inc trucks minibuses up up to 7.5 tons and with a trailer less than 3.5 tons. lots of groups on my license. Nothing changed. I have used temporary hand controls and permanantly fitted hand controls and always on the right. Cant say it would bother me on the left? After a few mins practise...

[ex-Gooserider]

Still getting jerked around by the people at Mobility Works... Do any US members have any contacts with ADA lawyers???

ex-Gooserider

[Dan]

The man on youtube keeps about 100 lawyers on retainer
https://www.youtube.com/@TotallyNormal-/videos
https://twitter.com/everyoneisdumb

[ex-Gooserider]

Good news - I finally got my van back on Friday, which means I've gotten rid of the rental, and am back to being able to use my power chair...

The body shop did a pretty good job, looks almost like new, except a slightly wider gap between the hood and front fender on the accident side... They also took off the BIG vinyl stickers I'd made on the ramp door to tell people not to park me in (hopefully, if not they couldn't convincingly say they didn't see them...)

I seem to have an intermittent problem with the ABS and traction control dash lights coming on (and keeping the cruise control from working) which they have promised to work on in the next few days....

Now I just need to deal w/ finding a replacement spinner knob (I am NOT going to get another Sure Grip knob!) and getting some money out of the Sure Grip guy...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Do you actually need one? I had one 20 years back and found it worse than not having it.