EV charging for chairs?

[slomobile]

I just ordered one of these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CSBC995C

Until now I had not thought it possible to charge non road going vehicles at EV chargers, but it looks doable now. I haven't received it yet but wondered what other equipment I should pair with it.
I assume the PL8 and ZXD will work, but don't have those.

Shirley, do you have a setup that might maximize ease of portable use and charge speed from J1772 Level 2 chargers? A compact package connected to this plug that can start just by plugging it in. LTO batteries preferred by me, but I could switch to whatever would work.

Standard overnight chargers should work, but too slowly to make any sense.

Tesla Superchargers are more common and less frequently broken, I hear, so I wonder if I could use the supercharger Tesla to CCS magic adapter to connect to this J1772 adapter(I think J1772 is CCS without the DC link) to Nema 5-15/20 plug (US household 240v 60Hz AC up to 20A) to AC-DC charger to chair batteries.
I don't know if the Tesla to CCS adapter passes AC or just the DC part.

There is a park near me with long trails and a Supercharger I am itching to try out.

Edit: just added this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CTZHP415 to the order to try that scenario.

[slomobile]

Now added https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CJC6X2NP
QPQ Level 1 Level 2 EV Charger, 16A Portable Electric Car Charger, 110-240V 21FT Electric Vehicle Charging Stations with NEMA 6-20 Plug & NEMA 5-15 Adapter for J1772
So I can do testing at home.
How that actually operates with the pilot signal is a little unclear to me.

[Burgerman]

As far as I am aware all electric car chargers are not chargers at all. Just a power connector that puts the house power (240V AC and either 13A from any wall socket or 30, 40, or 45A from a heavier cable) to the car.

[martin007]

As far as I am aware all electric car chargers are not chargers at all. Just a power connector that puts the house power (240V AC and either 13A from any wall socket or 30, 40, or 45A from a heavier cable) to the car.

Some people are satisfied with the name...

[slomobile]

My understanding (very limited) is that there is AC level 1 and 2 charging that is, like you say, not a charger at all, just a connection to the AC mains and a +12/-12 1kHz square wave pilot signal from the vehicle to charger that indicates when the plug is connected securely.

Then there is also DC level 1 charging which can be delivered over the same pins that AC uses. The vehicle tells the charger how much power it needs by varying the duty cycle of the pilot signal. Up to 48kW. This is the mode I hope to use, a real charger variable power supply at least, but doubt will be available on the equipment just ordered.

Then DC level 2 provides massive power via 2 separate pins that I don't have or need.

[Burgerman]

All I am saying is that its basically a connetor at one end and the house power on the othe and a fancy box with an elcb in it for safety. In the UK we can get enough power from a normal wall socket and extention lea to charge at 3.2KW without a "charger" as such which many do. So basically you can just fit an outdoor plug someplace near the car for convenience. Its a bit slower, but its enough unless the car is completely empty, and yo are in a hurry. A model 3 with a 50 kwh battery will take around 16 hours. But generally they are not close to empty. Most people ust keep them topped up. And if in a hurry can unplug and go wherever even without a full battery. You can fit a "proper" charger, on the wall. With a dedicated cable, and charge much faster if you need that too.

So to use a normal EV charger in the street, you would just need a power supply set to your battery voltage that is AC powered like the ZXD. It will charge at 3KW at up to 60V. But teslas may be different. At least as far as making it turn on or getting high charge rates. Dont know.

[slomobile]

So to use a normal EV charger in the street, you would just need a power supply set to your battery voltage that is AC powered like the ZXD. It will charge at 3KW at up to 60V. But teslas may be different. At least as far as making it turn on or getting high charge rates. Dont know.

Ok, so the ZXD will work for the 48v chair I am slowly building.
In the mean time, I'll want to try charging my MK gel 75AH as fast as possible. The ZXD ought to work for that too,
but what do you think of this https://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-SC163 ... 0BFJMRKSH/

I know it sounds absurd but I'm getting most of this stuff free to review. Also a 27KW 240Volt tankless water heater for the garage and some ebike parts. Time to get an elechicken to add some circuits.

I'm wanting the water heater to fill a small therapy pool in the garage on demand. If anyone knows of a small walkin pool that can be setup in a garage let me know

[Burgerman]

What do I think of this? I think its great to boost a battery to stat a car but likely useless as a deep cycle battery charger.
Plus its got half the power of the ZXD. It can only do 50A at 12V. It drops to 25A and is an old style taper charger at 24V. It has a capacitor inside so it can give intermittent boosts to add to this to help start an engine. So its 600 watts max. ZXD is 3KW max. So has 6x as much power!

But for less the ZXD charger can be properly configured and can also boost charge at 50A at up to 60V at the correct voltages and work as a 3 stage charger or power a hobby charger as well. And is about 10x smaller and likely much more efficient and cheaper too.

Sounds like an old style fixed current/voltage charger that will total your betteries.

Reviewed in the United States on October 15, 2022
Vine Customer Review of Free Product( What's this? )
If you are looking for a smart charger, you are in the wrong place. If you read the description, and ordered this, expecting a smart charger, then go get new glasses. This is a dumb charger. It gives you the voltage and amperage you asked for and that's it.

This is not a battery maintainer. This is a manual battery charger and jump starter. If that's what you want, you are in the right place.

Don't buy this one and then complain that it isn't what it says it isn't.

[slomobile]

Thats quite helpful, thanks.

[shirley_hkg]

If LTO is your choice, a decent BMS with an adjustable psu will work best.

JK bms (up to 24S) has most of the parameters we need. It has 0.4a - 0.6a - 1A - 2A balance power .
https://youtu.be/-xKw2atL7oM?si=fLjAqHT9ydKTeEkn

ZXD2400 psu (0--60v 0--50a). It can charge your battery and let you do lots of maintenance and testing things.

[ex-Gooserider]

I'd be concerned about using the ZXD as a mobile charger - at least some of the docs I've seen warn that it should not be subjected to rough handling, and what I've seen of the interior makes me very much agree... There are several large (heavy) inductors in the ZXD, and while there is a good bit of hot-melt type glue holding them down, basically they are only really held on by the solder connections...

I've seen a fair number of electronic devices destroyed because a heavy component broke loose from the board, usually by pulling the pads and / or traces off.... I would definitely consider the ZXD to fit in the "high risk" class for this sort of failure...

Keep in mind that the ZXD was originally built to be a RACK MOUNTED stationary supply, and would have been shipped in a box designed for shock absorbing, etc... It was never intended to take the kind of bouncing around that it would get siting on the back of a chair....

You should be looking for a charger / power supply that is rated for getting bounced around, and is either heavily potted or designed with all the heavy bits solidly anchored...

ex-Gooserider

[slomobile]

Very good point.
Do you have any in mind?
Everything I've found so far is either too small (for Ebikes) or too large for EV cars.

https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/tsm250 ... wMEALw_wcB

[Burgerman]

That thing costs 5x the price for half the power. It only does 25A. And not sure its programable etc.

[shirley_hkg]

…
I've seen a fair number of electronic devices destroyed because a heavy component broke loose from the board, usually by pulling the pads and / or traces off.... I would definitely consider the ZXD to fit in the "high risk" class for this sort of failure...

Bear a few things in mind when picking a charger for lithium via bms.
1, It should always restart. Most of them won't as pack's volt is high, when bms undergos on & off, during balance at end of charge.
2, Adjustable voltage and residual current to let you manage soaking period.

That's why I recommend ZXD, not because I want to sell (it was brought to this forum for fun, until experts here dig out its Versatility) .

Robustness ? No sure. No one mounted it on his chair yet.
Carried in your car ? Probably yes. Dozens of units went through the roughest and violent shipping across the world. Not one broke , though a few had dent.
8 years since introduced here, not one die. Few stopped due to mistakenly used, but all recovered after redo the self calibration program built in.

Hard to beat at this price tag (competitive candidates are very welcome by all us here) , let alone it could also be a decent, super compact 3kw bench psu for testing/repair works.

[shirley_hkg]

Bear a few things in mind when picking a charger for lithium via bms.
1, It should always restart. Most of them won't as pack's volt is high, when bms undergos on & off, during balance at end of charge.
2, Adjustable voltage and residual current to let you manage soaking period.

That's why I recommend ZXD, not because I want to sell (it was brought to this forum by me for fun, until experts here dig out its Versatility) .

…
I've seen a fair number of electronic devices destroyed because a heavy component broke loose from the board, usually by pulling the pads and / or traces off.... I would definitely consider the ZXD to fit in the "high risk" class for this sort of failure...

Robustness ?
Not sure. No one mounted it on a chair yet.

Carried in your car ? Probably yes. Dozens of units went through the violent and roughest shipping to the other side of the world. Not one broke , though a few had dent.
7 years now since introduced here, not one die. Few stopped due to mistakenly used, but all recovered after re-doing the self calibration program built in.

Hard to beat at this price tag (competitive candidates are very welcome by all us here) , let alone it could also be a decent, super compact 3kw bench psu for testing/repair works.

[Burgerman]

And while its 3kw and 50A and 60V capable on 240V it can still do 25A and 60V on the low voltage US power system too. And you set the voltage, termination current, Amps, and float voltage if wanted. This thing is electrically flexible and robust and extremely compact for a 3kw capable device, designed for telecoms rack mount use. Its built. But can be noisy (fans).

[slomobile]

Thunderstruck has a bunch of stuff I'm trying to figure out. Maybe I should use that instead.
So I went to a forum familiar with such devices and apparently stirred up some controversy, at least with 1 guy.
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/ ... st-1122513
What do you all think? Are our wheelchairs plug in electric vehicles?
Are we legally allowed to plug into a public charger on the sidewalk?
What if we are grabbing a charge inside our van?

Obviously it would be incredibly rude to hold up a busy charge point for 8 hours with an 8 amp charger. I don't think anyone wants to do that.
But if we can get our charge time down to the same or less than a car, why not?

Really, I'm asking.
These EVSE chargers are cheaper than an old Dolphin charger. Highway rest stations might be willing to put one inside a building, knowing they wont have to pay the much larger electric bill incurred by electric cars. Should public wheelchair charging be a thing? If not like this, how should it be implemented.

BTW, charged my 24v MK gel prone chair inside the van last night using the J1772 charger. Uneventful, worked totally fine.

[Burgerman]

J1772 charger ?

Just looked it up. They are not chargers just an AC connection. So obviously any chair charger or your kettle or drill or anything needing AC can be connected. They do 120 and 240V. Most things here and the ZXD for e.g. can use both. So you are quite safe. As long as you have the right connector you are good to go.

You can charge lithium or lead on a chair at 40A with the PL8. The difference is that a lead battery starts at 40A and soon starts to drop. Once it reaches CV stage, which doesent take long at 40A it will tail off fast and take another 8 hours or more. So its just not practical other than to boost it some during the day when needed.

With lithium, I charge at 40A and it stays at 40A right up to around 99% charged. So way faster. But with a different BIGGER charger you can charge at a much higher current. But bigger and heavier... Up to 1C is possible on most lithium ion phosphate. So with a 230Ah pack you can charge at 230 Amps. So empty to full in 1 hour. I charge hobby lipo at 8C regularly so if you used those dangerous things you can get a complete 100% charge in 12 mins...

But at 230Ah you will need your own power grid to charge at that rate. And charge at 1,840 Amps... Which begins to explain why charging faster than tesla do now just isnt practical. Remember this when you see the next charge in 1 minute miracle battery nonsense on the interney looking for investment...

[slomobile]

10C safe charge rate is one of the reasons I was looking at Toshiba LTO. They even have preconfigured industrial packs with a suitable high current BMS but don't sell to the general public. 2 20Ah packs simultaneously could be up to 400A going in or out if I can keep them cool.

But as this idea gets bigger, with more and more things I'd like to try, I could maybe have more than 2 LFP packs, but can barely afford 1 LTO. I'm definitely getting a ZXD, but questioning the rest.

Can anyone recommend specific brushed motors for 48v?
3-13HP range, 2kw-10kw
Forklift motors keep coming up in searches.
And brushless QS motors for cars/motorcycles and ebike brushless motors.
But I don't have any anecdotes that say "this is a good one". Except Grin. Everyone seems to like Grin Ebike motors.

[shirley_hkg]

At 4:40

https://youtu.be/YlTbq57leGM?si=gwXos0bu3JWEvILU

[Burgerman]

Thats cool.

[slomobile]

-48v redundant hot swap power supplies for telecom would be so much easier if we can get the frames they slide into.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325612924585?e ... R5bp1cLNYw

Looking for a DWE PF3200-PS48-AI

[LROBBINS]

The ZXD supplies that many of us are using thanks to Shirley are modified telecom supplies that have been modified to provide variable voltage and programmability. By themselves they can handle different lead batteries with the correct charging scheme for each. For other chemistries, we use the ZXD to power a programmable, balancing charger. Although no longer in production, the PowerLab PL8 seems to be the best balancing charger, Burgerman has provided well thought out presets for many battery types, and Shirley keeps coming up with new or barely-used examples.

[thamesmud]

-48v redundant hot swap power supplies for telecom would be so much easier if we can get the frames they slide into.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325612924585?e ... R5bp1cLNYw

Looking for a DWE PF3200-PS48-AI

Before I got my ZDX I used a pair of HP 750w server computer supplies in series. you have to float the earth on at least one of them, there is plenty of info online on how to do this. These psu's are only £9 on eBay so it's a cheap option. As they are only 24v I limited the charge current to 25A to reduce the strain on the PL8. They are also smaller and lighter than a ZDX ( 9" x 3" x 3" for the pair ). The ZDX is the best option in my opinion.

[slomobile]

I think the 2 power supplies in that scooter video were https://www.ebay.com/itm/404649020813?i ... R_z38IfPYw
4kW each, at the same time. I couldn't see if it was series or parallel, but 8kW either way! 8k/(16*3.65) = 137Amps into a 16s LFP
In a package not much larger than 2 of those 750w 12v server PSUs.

The difference is I happen to have an old dead server with redundant 12v supplies and didn't know that 24v trick. Thanks!
Mine are only 350W but I think the larger ones may still fit the same slots in the server.
Now to extract the slots from the server.

Edit: Still going with ZXD. My energy to tear up that server didn't even last as long as the edit window.