Pride Raptor motor has a voltage limiter and won't allow ove

[mrgus2u]

Does anyone know where the limiter circuit is located and how to disable it.
I bought this motor with the intention of using it at a higher voltage, but it doesn't run with any voltage above 24 volts. I would like to disable the limiter, but I am unfamiliar with these transaxle , and can't find any info on the motor. The motor powers a transaxle used on Pride's Raptor mobility scooter. Its ratings are 1200watt continuous.3000-watt peak at 24vdc.Part number 2000288.Can someone help me with my dilemma?

[Burgerman]

What controller and what voltage are you using? What makes you think it has a "limiter"? More likely I am guessing that you are trying to feed the scooters controller a higher voltage than stock and the controller is giving an error. If you keep connecting a higher voltage to a stock controller you will kill it and maybe explode its capacitos internally. I never saw any "voltage" limiter on any DC motor. Not even sure how it could work. Because the controller sends a reduced average voltage as you set off, via pulsewidth, so the motor wouldn see a higher voltage until you exceeded original max speed anyway. So that would just end up being a speed limiter.

[mrgus2u]

Iam feeding the motor directly , without a controller. This is a 24 volt 1200 watt nominal, 3000 watt peak at 24 vdc brushed motor. If I power it with anything over 28 volts, the motor won't run. It is some limiter inside this motor. I have never seen a brush motor limited in this way, but there is no other explanation .
I am going to break open this transaxle . I will figure it out. (I just wanted to know if somebody else had run across this problem and found a solution.

[Burgerman]

That makes no sense.
Does it spark, etc? Does it move? At all?

WHAT ARE YOU POWERING IT WITH?
A power supply will likely have an over current shut down if you try to power it with that. So that the supply doesent start.
If you are powering directly with some kind of battery then you may damage or blow the brushes away. Because without some form of current limiting the stopped motor will draw 300 to 500A as an initial starting spike.

Which is likely why it wont start...
As you increase voltage the current spike increases. So your supply will shut down to protect itself. It will see the low impedance motor as a short circuit.

So please xplai exactly what you are doing and how and with what?

[mrgus2u]

I know it makes no sense. But there is a small current draw when the higher voltage is applied, like a relay coil is being energize, which is what i believe is happening. Those guys from Pride have always seemed a little sneaky to me. And I always use
35 amp sla batteries in series to provide the voltage. This motor is quite massive, reminiscent of a golf car motor.

[Burgerman]

How are you getting more than 28V from two batteries? Theres never a case where 2 lead batteries will give more than 29.4V even when on charge at maximum possible allowed CV voltage. And there are no scooter motors that are not fine at this level. And most scooter motors are fine at 36v nominal including some pride scooters that use 3 batteries..

Added...
You should never connect 2 batteries directly as the motor will draw an initial spike of hundreds of amps of inrush current and damage the brushes or burn the little wire that connects the carbon brush to the connecting cable. Its very thin...

You should use a variable supply and gradually increase voltage like the scooter controller does. That has a limiter set to whatever the controller power max is. And it starts at a pulsewidth on zero and increases this over time and limits current by restricting pulsewidth.

[daveonwheels]

the motor is likely dead b/c of inrush current

[Burgerman]

Well its unlikely, and I have done it too. But it is a possibility. The newer the motors are the lower the impedance seems to be. They figured ut over time that lower impedance = greater efficiency because it means less battery amps at any given motor amps. So more range. Motors have been getting more efficient over the lat 30 years. But that does mean that inrush current if connected direct to a battery spikes at an extremely high figure. Can also break the gearbox.

Baffles me how he is getting over 28V from a couple of wheelchair batteries. A set of batteries direct from the charger are 26V. And thats wat the motor is designed for. He also says a small current flows.

Question.
Are you also sending the correct 12 or 24v to the brake solenoid?

[woodygb]

I have never seen a brush motor limited in this way, but there is no other explanation .

Is it possible that the voltage / amps you think you are supplying has catastrophically collapsed ?

E.G. 30v at 0.5 amps would not be enough to rotate the motor.

And I always use 35 amp sla batteries in series to provide the voltage.

If you are using 3 in series to get your 28v , then at least one of them is DEAD.

[Burgerman]

By which he means that one or more may be very high resistance so when you tryy to "short" out the batteries with a very low impedance big scooter motor the voltage and current just collapses. Easy to test with a voltmeter.

[shirley_hkg]

He said it ran well under 24V.

[Burgerman]

Which means 2 batteries. So maybe those are more healthy. But if those are below 24v then even then one or both are pretty dead.

2x lead batteries at 12V each means they are around 90% discharged. And so less than 24V means pretty much completely dead or at least one is.
2x lead batteries FULLY charged means around 26.2V.

3x lead even if all three are at 1% means 33 volts minimum...
3x lead when charged means 39V max.

How do you get 28?
Or lss than 24? Unless at least one battery is completely dead beyond 0%? And if one is then it may be super high resistance hence voltage collapse, and low current seen.

[woodygb]

He said it ran well under 24V.

He has said that he is using batteries in series to test his motor.... so I assume that the quoted 24v is from 2 off 12v batteries.

I have no idea what combination of batteries he used to get his 28v, but I am guessing at 3 batteries in series one of which is DEAD and cannot give any amps.... I doubt that the bad battery would even light up a bulb.... hence this

there is a small current draw when the higher voltage is applied

.

[Burgerman]

Of course these are guesses based on litte information...

But thats what I am saying too! Detective work based on what we know partly.

[shirley_hkg]

That's why an adjustable power supply is a good investment.

[Burgerman]

Yep. Thats how i tested the BM3 motors from about 3 to 60V. And supplied 12v for the brake release.

[Burgerman]

Yep. Thats how i tested the BM3 motors from about 3 to 60V. And supplied 12v for the brake release.

[mrgus2u]

I have an Astron 30-amp variable supply when I realized the motor would run with two batteries, but not with three, and 28 volts was the magic number. With no load the current draw of this motor is just a couple of amps. I worked as an electronic technician for forty years, and I know what I am witnessing is some added circuitry designed to discourage overvolting. There is probably a zener, or other voltage sensitive device, that triggers after the preset voltage is exceeded.
I just hate having to open up a brand-new transaxle to undo something that should have never been added to this motor. I just don't have time for such nonsense.
And by the way, I have powered up hundreds of brushed motors the way I am doing it, and I have never had a problem happen because of it.

[mrgus2u]

And I am using four 35-amp sla new batteries when i don't use the power supply.14.1 volts each, when fresh off of the charger.

[Burgerman]

They might be 14.1V on the charger at CV.
If they are anywhere near 14V when off the charger then you must be severely overcharging to the point of destruction. A lead based battery at full charge such as a AGM or sealed lead acid, or Gel bettery should be a fraction over 13V Up to around 13.25V. It may read 14V for a couple of seconds as the overvoltage decays away. After a few mins it should be below 13.4V.

After 24 hours it may be between 12.95 and 13.25 depending on type. And that is still 100% charged. And should stay that way for a few weeks. It will eventually decay away as the state of charge drops due to self discharge currents internally.

If there IS any zener in there it isnt to discorage overvolting. Its to either prevent a runaway downhill at speed. Or to protect the controllers output from overvoltage spikes while the scooter is decending a slope or hill. OR its there to prevent a downhil from over volting the battery on regeneration downhill. But that would show up as a sudden high current at your 28V. And you would see this on your power supply.

[mrgus2u]

True. Voltage settles at 13.25 volts. When this first happened, I thought that the motor was bad, so I made resistance checks and pulled out the four brushes.Then, to check the motor with voltage applied, plugged a single battery to it, and it ran perfectly.
Off topic, need a good and cheap source for 100 volt caps, 220uf and 470uf, to run 60volts on a 48volt bldc controller.

[Burgerman]

I normally check out ebey for those kinds of bits.