PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

Nope. Too many possibilities. You will need to experiment.

[shirley_hkg]

Exspresso, and other lithium/rnet users.

These are the settings you might get best warning from.
Also once I have a word with PG drives I think we can adjust the calibration to read "just" full, after the first few yards. And then the auge wont be accurate, but will start to drop after some use so you know where you are. If they wont tell me then I will break out my meter when I convert the new rnet chair to lithium in a month or so. Since I think I can get it working. At least to a degree.

You can set 6 or 8 bars if you wish. So it warns you before any damage.

Beware ! This is only viable with an assumption that all GROUP of cells are of the same capacity , that their voltage difference are only minimal through out the entire discharge .

However, only John's pack could perform this way , as all his cells went through the tideous capacity screening and thorough matching process .

I haven't seem anyone else has done the same yet .

[shirley_hkg]

THE weakest group will always hit the bottom , long before the battery volt gets lower than 25V .

All lazy users like me assemble our packs at will , WITH DISCHARGE RESULT AS BELOW NATUALLY ..

[shirley_hkg]

A voltmetre + cell alarm are safe .

Eventually will go to cell phone via bluetooth

Original battery gauge is never meant for lithium after all ..

[shirley_hkg]

[expresso]

I may just make a cell monitor this winter - just to see - - but in my case - i have two packs - the full 105ah in the chair and the ADD ON 30ah in the rear - now if i make a cell monitor - i would connect it to the full pack in the Chair ? i know it would only show the Cells from that pack only - but that would be the most important to me - the ADD ON is my insurance to keep my Full pack in shape -

so far its going on my Third summer coming up and i just been using my JS Milage - with a 135ah pack - i am good for easy 45 Miles and cells are safe - never below 3.1v after 45 Miles - thats the most i have done so far in one Trip - now i understand it can change depending how you ride etc, - 45 Miles one trip can be different from another 45 Mile trip -

but theres still enough room and the lowest cell group never went below 3.1v during my usage so far - i feel fairly safe this way for now - now if i started to do 50 miles and more - then i would have to be concerned - i had my chair sitting for about 2 months - i used it here and there short trips to store etc, - about 10 miles over a 2 month period - in the house just moved if in the way -

i recharged and balanced just fine - i used 27 ah from the 105ah and 12ah from the 30ah pack - so far so good - well see this summer coming - my way is not the best way for sure - but its working for me at the moment - i have to make a cell monitor just to see now -

[expresso]

Nope. Too many possibilities. You will need to experiment.

i wont mess with it - since its not giving me any issues - i have no need to touch those settings - but i will adjust the battery section - and lower the low voltage time etc, - raise the cut off point to 23v or 23.5v - that should bring it to about 2.8v or 2.9v a cell - 24v should be fine also at 3v per cell ?

i never noticed it getting lower than 25.6v or 26v after a full days use - when plugged in to recharge - thats how i check it - - 23.5v or 24v ? which is better to make sure it dosnt cut off when riding

[Burgerman]

Its actually easy to set inhibits, battery calibration etc. But you need the chair connected, and in drive mode. Then go to diagnostics on the top bar, and play! Real time voltages etc. And real time inhibit and module figures. Allows you to figure out which seating actuator uses what settings.

[expresso]

Its actually easy to set inhibits, battery calibration etc. But you need the chair connected, and in drive mode. Then go to diagnostics on the top bar, and play! Real time voltages etc. And real time inhibit and module figures. Allows you to figure out which seating actuator uses what settings.

Ok - i am not worried about it that much at the moment - i leave it alone for now - but the battery low voltage cut off - - i have it set to 22v - -would it be ok to raise that to 23.5v or 24v ? and lower to 60s instead of original of 255s - ? Up till now - they never showed below 3.1v when i get home and connect to recharge -
and i believe 25.6v was the lowest it reached on the pack - or 26v - i cant recall which it was for sure - -

[Burgerman]

You cant. 22v is the highest. They are expecting lead. Yes 60s.

I want to know what "calibration" actually changes I nned a chair and a voltmeter to find out.

[expresso]

You cant. 22v is the highest. They are expecting lead. Yes 60s.

I want to know what "calibration" actually changes I nned a chair and a voltmeter to find out.

ah - didnt think of that - i just tried - it wont let me go past 22v - ok so i guess thats that - it was originally at 18.5v

i am not too worried - i know 45 Miles is pretty much safe limit - going to 50 miles and more - then its cutting it close - maybe too close - i dont intend to find out either -

i may have to just make a cell monitor and use a Subd - - if i ever make another pack - i may just add an extra set of balance wires and use it for Cell monitor only - i just hate to use more wiring than i need

[Burgerman]

As I said all along. If you fit a big enough pack, non of this is ever an issue.

Big enough, and C rate, depth of discharge, all help with longevity, range, stability, etc.

Look at snaker, he ran out of country, and was about to pass out unconsious and was rescued by a stranger!

[expresso]

As I said all along. If you fit a big enough pack, non of this is ever an issue.

Big enough, and C rate, depth of discharge, all help with longevity, range, stability, etc.

Look at snaker, he ran out of country, and was about to pass out unconsious and was rescued by a stranger!

yeah he did great with his 150ah pack - the best i can do is 150ah also if i add another 8 cells to the 30ah pack - but for now i feel 135ah is good enough for me - afterall - i am the only one with lithium here - i was hoping my friend would get his new chair lithium also but they already denied him that option which sucks -

with out them - he can never ride with me on my long trips - hes the kind who really just wants a plug and play - dumb charger - to work with his chairs - i tried to get him started and think about crossing over to learn how to charge with PL 8 etc, - so far got nowhere trying - hes not willing to change nothing about his routine in order to gain the freedom of lithium - its been two years i been trying - theres no other solution other than lithium - at the very least a ADD ON - i know he cant do the whole chair - cost and hes so worried about touching it - if they find out or if he needs repairs - hes just too worried to do anything -

[Burgerman]

You just described 95 percent of society. I call them the normals. They want everything but are prepared to learn or do nothing or accept any responsibility. Thats got to be someone elses job. And responsibility.

[steves1977uk]

after a 44 mile ride - i have all my greens on my JS - so not sure where to set it etc, - i figured i set it to flash at 3 bars warning me its getting low and cut off at 22V - should i change that to 22.5v or 23V ? -

even if my wires are thicker - i used 8AWG - i dont know if my Chair wiring for power is the same or thinner - i am sure they are not thicker - but if they are thinner - shouldnt i leave that alone ?

the thing is this - the seating part of my chair - is not stock from Sunrise - its from another company - Motion Concepts - adds the upper part to the sunrise frame
and the program settings i am sure are from Motion and not Sunrise i would think -

i think this is the current settings i am using - i have so many saved that i am confused what i am using - when i connect it again to check - i will save the current on the chair and the original i have and delete the rest - getting to confusing now - i have dozens of settings saved-

i only need the original - and what ever i am using now -

take a look at this -

Expresso, these inhibit settings MAY BE the ones you need to up on channel A to make your chair go faster while raised... Like BM said, you need to experiment a bit with these.

Steve

[Burgerman]

If you go into DIAGNOSTICS you can see which is which. As you are sitting in it.

[expresso]

yes steve thats the section - but i am not in a rush to play with it now - its not a big deal for me - i dont ride when i am lifted - i used it twice outside just to see - thats it - i use it to transfer only

the reason i like to know is - if i just lift up one inch - its goes to slow mode already - i was just curious if i needed it removed - its working fine - dont fix whats not broken just yet - with my luck - i been on a bad streak as of late -

[Burgerman]

if i just lift up one inch - its goes to slow mode already - i was just curious if i needed it removed

Theres a bunch of different actuators, and actuator control modules, or on some the power module is also an actuator module. So its hard to guess whats set up on yours. But I used to always keep an old chair kicking about with lift. (And tilt, legs/back etc). Since about 1999. Various ones as they materialised cheap. Used occasionally. As the extra weight makes them horrible unless you need the van washed or something. In every case there was a way to do two or three different things on all the used actuators one way or another.

The first thing was to be sure that the system didnt error if a module or actuator was removed. (Faulty, unplugged or whatever) so that there was a way to get home even if it meant cutting a cable with scissors! And so that in the event of failure, it allowed me to drive at 50 to 100% max speed. The last thing a paraplegic needs is no way to get off a deserted train staion at midnight or be trapped in some pub or something unable to get back to your van or home. So I made sure everything, fails safe and good to go. Even if 12 inches in the air, or with my legs horizontal!

Then I always made sure that the low speed inhibit was set to a relatively high(er?) speed globally. Then I get to choose a low indoor speed (or otherwise as I see fit) when aviated. Or in an unstable position. For eg, I want full power, full speed available in the event I tilt the seat back to climb a very steep ramp in reverse. Its safer! I dont want any speed inhibit with tilt at all. Or recline for similar reasons. If you dont do this, you can add a little EXTRA motor compensation on just one slow indoor profile to get it to climb at low "throttle" input values. So I would have more compensation set on INDOOR profile than on the outdoor one.

[Burgerman]

If you want to really understand the programming, modules, seating setup, possible options and the PROGRAMMING properly, I suggest you readthis over a few days end to end at least 3 times. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/program ... /R-Net.pdf

[expresso]

i got the manuals - - its fine as long it works as it always been - i was just curious - i always ride all the way down - - i use the seat lift to transfer only so not a big deal - i dont ride around lifted in home or out -

it should be more simple to do -

[Burgerman]

Expresso, if you plug in your sunrise r-net OEM programmer, and set the BATTERY/CALIBRATION to 140 you will find that your battery gauge starts to drop at 25.6 or 7 volts. So should be usable when out. At least thats what I see testing here with an rnet system and power supply.

It works in reverse. So if you find the gauge isnt dropping as you would expect, INCREASE the figure to a higher number. If it drops more than expected and it may, then decrease to say 130 or 120...

[expresso]

Expresso, if you plug in your sunrise r-net OEM programmer, and set the BATTERY/CALIBRATION to 140 you will find that your battery gauge starts to drop at 25.6 or 7 volts. So should be usable when out. At least thats what I see testing here with an rnet system and power supply.

It works in reverse. So if you find the gauge isnt dropping as you would expect, INCREASE the figure to a higher number. If it drops more than expected and it may, then decrease to say 130 or 120...

that would be nice if its at least close - i will do that next time i plug it in - motor comp. will set to 40 - and now put the battery to 140 - i wont really know till much warmer days - months from now - - usually if i recall last time over 40 miles - still showed 25.7 V i believe in that area -

i will start soon to making another charge cable and will try making the cell monitor also - if i can manage that - then i can use them both to get a better idea when the green light on the JS goes out - i would know more or less check the cell monitor and see what level its at - i got a few of those volt meters Genomatic used -

i can try making one of those with the XLR plug also - or maybe i can add two wires in the same Subd i will use for the cell monitor - in exchange of the power wires - use those for the Volt meter - i would have to add a toggle switch to both volt meter and cell monitor in order to not drain the battery - since i will have to leave it attached to my Charge Subd on the chair and lay it near my side near me so i can check it - should work if i make it correctly -

i also want to make a charge cable for the lead with XLR plug - in case i wanted to use it with the PL8 to charge - but slowly lead is dying out here at some point i wont have a lead chair period -

very good - i like this - i will give it a try - i am sure you will be riding sooner than me there - i need to wait for June to feel nice and warm to ride again - a few short trips before then but June should be perfect

[Burgerman]

Gets warm sometimes mid april. But you gotta live! First time off my bed for several months tomorrow. Eye test, bank, shopping, pub, configure and adjust new chair, etc...

[expresso]

Gets warm sometimes mid april. But you gotta live! First time off my bed for several months tomorrow. Eye test, bank, shopping, pub, configure and adjust new chair, etc...

True got to live - glad your ready to get off that bed - i go crazy just not being able to get out - once i open my eyes in the morning - i cant stay in bed even i am tired - unless i am sleeping - anyway - looking forward to more tricks you figure out on this Rnet now that you have one - - i think i may be coming tru to one of my friends about lithium Add on pack at least - i think hes finally realizing there is no other way and may not get lithium on our new chairs so he has no choice -

i hope he decides to do it - i would like to get them now and have them ready for him when he gets his chair new - so we can add it to a new set of batteries - hes still no committed yet - and knowing him - he wont be till the end and then will take time to get the batteries and make the pack etc, - i told him this may be the last of it with these chairs - not getting younger here -

at best - i can make him a 45ah ADD ON - - still better than lead alone for sure -

[Burgerman]

One of the things the R-Net software does is allow you to see MOTOR amps, and MOTOR voltage. So you can move the stick, to turn say, and hold it still and read the figures.

3.0 Volts reads about 38A on these linix 4 pole motors.

The motors therefore would try to take 304A or so at 24V if stalled. Thats great for efficiency as battery amps are about 1/3 of motor amps at stall speeds. Very low impedance motors. So... the 45 mOhm setting doesent make sense! Unless you add cables, connectors etc to the measurement.

[expresso]

One of the things the R-Net software does is allow you to see MOTOR amps, and MOTOR voltage. So you can move the stick, to turn say, and hold it still and read the figures.

3.0 Volts reads about 38A on these linix 4 pole motors.

The motors therefore would try to take 304A or so at 24V if stalled. Thats great for efficiency as battery amps are about 1/3 of motor amps at stall speeds. Very low impedance motors. So... the 45 mOhm setting doesent make sense! Unless you add cables, connectors etc to the measurement.

My Chair stock settings - its 30 for motor comp. - i was going to try 40 - not sure what i would be expecting from 40 as opposed to 30

[snaker]

Expresso, if you plug in your sunrise r-net OEM programmer, and set the BATTERY/CALIBRATION to 140 you will find that your battery gauge starts to drop at 25.6 or 7 volts. So should be usable when out. At least thats what I see testing here with an rnet system and power supply.

It works in reverse. So if you find the gauge isnt dropping as you would expect, INCREASE the figure to a higher number. If it drops more than expected and it may, then decrease to say 130 or 120...

I want to try this too but how can I drop the voltage to 25.6 for testing now
Last week I drove to my dad's homeland, 90km/107Ah. The voltage was still 26.1X

[Burgerman]

I suggest you try 150. And see what it does as you use it. The thing is theres no documentation for that parameter so not sure xactly what its doing. But it seems to work.

[expresso]

i guess have to use it alot to get that low and see if it works - i guess i have to change the settings and see if i can use it till its low enough - or discharge it till its 26v and see if it works - i guess a few ways can be tested

[shirley_hkg]

I want to try this too but how can I drop the voltage to 25.6 for testing now

It does no better than a voltmetre , which will alert me chair is under load / drag , say voltage drops 0.5V . It used to 0.15V & 0.25V on flat ground and pickup respectively .

It can't tell the weakest cell too . Why bother .