PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

What are we banning? Lead?

[steves1977uk]

Lead should've been banned a decade ago!

Steve

[Burgerman]

Bought a lead brick - pc65 odyssey - in summer. For my van, to replace the 2007 one. Retired after 10 years. New one has 50w roof solar / charge controller should last longer. And always be full.

[Gnomatic]

Strange. I plugged in my chair last night to charge. I knew it wasn't empty but I wanted to be topped up for today. So I unplug my chair this morning thinking the chair had finished charging several hrs ago. It hadn't. The charger was still in the CV stage. Not expecting this, I unplugged the charge cable and the PL8 protested. Realizing it was still charging at that point, I checked the PC graph and saw this:

What the heck? Usually CV lasts ~2hrs. Here it had been going 6hrs and still wasn't finished!

[expresso]

that is strange - are you using the same preset i am using ? charging up to 3.6v and then let it balance ? this is another reason why i like to watch it and finish it before bed -

if you charge at 20A - you should be done in 4 hours times on a close to empty pack - the balance part dosnt take long - maybe 20 mins for me or 30 mins at most i think - i never really paid attention - since it never acted funny out of the norm before - lets see what BM suggests - maybe easy fix with the preset used

[Gnomatic]

My pack 90Ah, and the preset I'm currently using charges to the 500thC at 14A with CV set to 3.55v.

[expresso]

this is the preset i always used - i have a few of the same with different charge speeds - for the 105ah pack - you can adjust the term. point if needed - based on charge results -

i think that may be your problem - i recall BM saying if start to balance too early - will take a long time - but you didnt have this problem before ? could be this time around there were out of balance more -

either way - you can try this one and see - i would watch it this time -

[expresso]

also - maybe the cable - is it too long ? could be a combonation of things - cable - preset - cells out of balance - etc , use shortest cable with my preset - which is BM's preset - he made them all for me - i havnt had to touch them at all -

just charge speeds i adjust -

[Gnomatic]

i think that may be your problem - i recall BM saying if start to balance too early - will take a long time - but you didnt have this problem before ? could be this time around there were out of balance more -

Perhaps my Dsubs haven't been making good contact on previous charges and messing up the balancing? And on the charge graph posted above, perhaps the Dsubs finally got connected well and good for the first time in several charge cycles, and my pack was finally being properly balanced last night.

The reason I throw this out there as a possibility, is that on multiple previous charges, the graphs had not looked so hot - the lines weren't all together, kind of messy. Not so on the graph above with super long CV stage, all the lines suddenly together as one again.

The preset I'm using is one BM made for my pack.

[expresso]

OK - that can all have an effect - you may want to try making another cable - or use the one thats giving you the best results - in that case - if that is whats happeneing - then yeah it could have been out of balance - makes sesnse about the cable -

i will make a few extra myself this winter to have as spares - its good that you found this out - now you can keep an eye out on the cable - it should show like the above graph all the time - i know with my packs - early on the charge after about 10 mins or so - theres one line that goes off for a short time and loops back on and thats it - continues charging all together - happens on both my packs - and it depends how discharged they get also - i actually notice its dosnt happen as much or less when discharged deeper - it varies - i always look out for that - its early on the charge - its really minor but i still notice it - by the end of the charge - the graph is perfect line - and you cant even see that little bit from the start of the charge -

since i know my packs now how they charge and discharge - i use that as my guide - baseline - if i ever see it differently - then i would look into it - once you get it charging right each time with the graphs showing it - then you can get used your pack to notice when its good or when something can be off -

[Gnomatic]

Here's the graph from the preceding charge cycle to the one above. As you can see kind of sloppy. Recent charge cycles had a frayed graph look like this. Until the one last night with all lines together and super long CV.

[expresso]

this is my last charge graphs - 40 miles done - but over time - over a week - the chair was used here and there and sat for a while - in between etc, -

i charge two packs - 105ah with one charger and the 30ah ADD ON - with another charger - same time - 12A for 30ah pack and 20A for the 105ah pack -

when used steady in the summer - the graphs are tighter also - the important thing i feel is when i get home and check the level of discharge with the PL 8 - when i first start the charge - the Line is ONE - all even - i like to see that all the time

deeper the discharge - that one line would start to turn to 8 lines - at some point they will all do that -

[expresso]

Here's the graph from the preceding charge cycle to the one above. As you can see kind of sloppy. Recent charge cycles had a frayed graph look like this. Until the one last night with all lines together and super long CV.

11082017 Volts.JPG

big difference - use the same cable you used last night and make sure its connected good - see if that was the issue - may very well be -

[expresso]

Strange. I plugged in my chair last night to charge. I knew it wasn't empty but I wanted to be topped up for today. So I unplug my chair this morning thinking the chair had finished charging several hrs ago. It hadn't. The charger was still in the CV stage. Not expecting this, I unplugged the charge cable and the PL8 protested. Realizing it was still charging at that point, I checked the PC graph and saw this:

111217 Volts.JPG

What the heck? Usually CV lasts ~2hrs. Here it had been going 6hrs and still wasn't finished!

this graph looks good - just needed to be balanced like you said - i think your right about the cable connection or cable itself -

[Gnomatic]

I've been using the same charge cable, but I do have a spare. I might give that a go if it continues acting up.

But I'm inclined to think its just a matter of the Dsubs not getting good contact. Sometimes when I go to start a charge, the PL8 throws a fit. When that happens I just give the Dsubs an extra shove and it charges fine after that. That's what makes me suspect the connectors.

[Burgerman]

Make sure theres a 4 hour CV limit set. Unless balancing a fresh or old stored pck.
Make sure that you have a 4mV balance deadband set.
Make sure that you have a balance start 3.500V set.

Buy a tin of switch cleaner, do chair end, cable both ends, charger.
If it still miss behaves check all bolts tight.

[Gnomatic]

Make sure theres a 4 hour CV limit set. Unless balancing a fresh or old stored pck.
Make sure that you have a 4mV balance deadband set.
Make sure that you have a balance start 3.500V set.

Buy a tin of switch cleaner, do chair end, cable both ends, charger.
If it still miss behaves check all bolts tight.

I take it the CV limit is the CV Timeout setting in the Termination tab? I set that to 4hrs. Balance Start and Deadband already set as above already.

I will pick up some switch cleaner and go from there

[Gnomatic]

Which one of these?

https://smile.amazon.com/WD-40-Speciali ... ch+cleaner

https://smile.amazon.com/CRC-5103-Quick ... dpSrc=srch

https://smile.amazon.com/Hosa-D5S-6-Deo ... dpSrc=srch

[Burgerman]

I use, https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-D5S-6-DeoxI ... pldnSite=1

[snaker]

My maddest range: 83km/89.5 returned Ah.

In fact I was nearly unconscious in the last 4km A kind guy along the road gave me a 'red bull', it saved me. I should better prepare for long ranges, e.g some

You see the avg speed is 14.29kph. Its max speed must be greater than 15kph because I had to run at very low speed in some dangerous roads. That great speed was achieved just by increase motor voltage from stock 21.5V to max 25V.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zVOpR ... sp=sharing

[Burgerman]

89km is 52 miles. And you used just over half the battery.

And these are real world measured figures. (not ISO test dreamland ones).

Thats good!

[expresso]

well you beat my record - that must take at least 6 hours nonstop -

what time did you start and what time was it when you got back home -

[Gnomatic]

That is fantastic snaker!

[Burgerman]

6h 20m download/file.php?id=7309&mode=view
And 32 mins not moving.

The average speed is always accurate. Even over say 30 yards. As long as its got a few sats locked. But short term short distances can read high or low. Thats why you see silly max speeds.

[snaker]

well you beat my record - that must take at least 6 hours nonstop -

what time did you start and what time was it when you got back home -

Yes, it was 6 running hours. I started at 7:30 and got home at about 14:00.

Time in VN is different from in EU/US. We usually wake up at 5AM, working time starts at 7-7:30. Some farmers even have to start working at 4AM to bring their products to local markets. At 7AM, streets are already crowed. In bigger cities, working time starts later, about 8AM. In opposite, 10PM means very late here. If a young girl gets home later than 10PM, she would be accused as a 'bad girl'

[expresso]

5am !!! - sometimes i am not sleeping till 3AM - forget waking up early

[shirley_hkg]

I'm interested in your chair rather . It seems ultra efficient and fast . You said it is a CHINESE brand .

Would you let us share your super good pick ? Post photos of it here .

[Burgerman]

Main reason, hes under 50kg. And no fancy heavy seating...

Remember it takes double the energy to push twice the mass the same distance.

His chair is now lighter. Has no weight doubling seating. And he is under 50kg.

[shirley_hkg]

My maddest range: 83km/89.5 returned Ah.

I think you've created a GUINNESS WORLD RECORD already .

Truely , 83km in less than 6 hours for a wheelchair is hard to break .

[Burgerman]

Hes only just warming up!