PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

Only if you melt the grids and paste into flat dense sheets.

Could you bust open a couple of old batteries and use the lead plates?

[Burgerman]

Lead cut to size.
Code 8 is 4.6mm so 2 bits is 10mm approx. Close enough.
Choose 340 x 260mm

£11.25 per sheet, cut to size, and ready to drop in.

https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/leadtool.html

[Gnomatic]

Those cells look good!

[Burgerman]

So for grp24 replacement on most chairs we have 2 easy sensible options.
Price works out about the same, as does capacity.

The 90Ah ones here (180Ah with 18 cells once fitted)
The 176Ah ones (176Ah fitted, 8 cells), so for all intents the same. Here: https://www.lifepo4-batteries.com/sale- ... f-car.html

In both cases they are about 4mm wider than a set of 260mm grp24 MKs. That isn't usually a problem.

In both cases, used and charged correctly, they should give about:
7x the lifespan in cycles and time.
And about 5x the range of lead.
And can charge at a much faster rate or run for a week at a time uncharged.
Half the weight.
For 2x the cost of lead...

Why would anyone still be using lead?

[shirley_hkg]

How much to UK for 16, no bars, total cost?
I may order 16 of these in place of the 176Ah ones?

Found this

Yes that's them . Shirley quoted about £952 landed,

Over 40%of it went to shipping . Regret not able to find cheaper transportation .

[shirley_hkg]

Put back 87,113mAh totally .

[Scooterman]

Put back 87,113mAh totally .

WOW! I'm already dreaming of (all day, and possibly an overnight) road trip/s this coming spring and summer. This is the main reason I wanted lithium. And with 2P8S the scooter range in a day will far exceed my daily physical riding endurance.

Over 40%of it went to shipping . Regret not able to find cheaper transportation .

It is what it is Shirley. I'm just so grateful all you've done for me

[Burgerman]

So... What was total battery price? 16 cells? Inc shipping?

[Scooterman]

So... What was total battery price? 16 cells? Inc shipping?

I don’t know I haven’t paid for them yet, I’m bracing myself

The thing that annoys me is the likely possibility of getting hammered by UK customs with 20% VAT. I don’t think it’s fair having to pay 20% tax on something that is genuinely for a disability/mobility product

[Burgerman]

You will be unlucky if that happens. I have been a couple of times. But 2/3rds of the time you never get charged. Unless from the US, in which case because the US postal service hands over to the UK postal service you get screwed every time. Anything to do with parcel force, royal mail, and so on is basically the remnants of a socialist gov run system, they charge VAT and rip you off by charging a huge amount for "collecting from customs" and then they dont actually deliver, they make you pay first while holding your parcel hostage for another week or two. Then they ring the bell and before you can answer the door, they are gone leaving a number you can call to collect it yourself. Because thats easier for them. Never use them for anything. The sooner they go bust the better.

[Scooterman]

You will be unlucky if that happens. I have been a couple of times. But 2/3rds of the time you never get charged. Unless from the US, in which case because the US postal service hands over to the UK postal service you get screwed every time. Anything to do with parcel force, royal mail, and so on is basically the remnants of a socialist gov run system, they charge VAT and rip you off by charging a huge amount for "collecting from customs" and then they dont actually deliver, they make you pay first while holding your parcel hostage for another week or two. Then they ring the bell and before you can answer the door, they are gone leaving a number you can call to collect it yourself. Because thats easier for them. Never use them for anything. The sooner they go bust the better.

Thank that's given me a bit more confidence. You reminded me, I once bought a slimline titanium skagen watch from the US for about $70-$80, and what you say happens, happened!

I really hope the cells get through customs without having an additional 20% tax slapped on them.

As you probably know Shirley is getting me a few other bits and bobs as well; the soldering iron, solder, insulators, links, screws, and some connectors, etc.

I didn't know whether to ask him to send the soldering iron separately. And the cells, links, cables, etc. with a dispatch note saying something like "disability product for electric wheelchair conversion?".

But I don't know... I know nothing about global shipping. And I'm sure Shirley knows how to send them to stand the best chance of avoiding the dreaded 20% VAT on the cells, they're the most expensive item.

But if I get hit with the VAT, I'll just have to suck it up and pay

[shirley_hkg]

Is it good to use brass screws etc ?

[Burgerman]

I prefer stainless as it doesent oxydise and is much stronger. But they will work.

[LROBBINS]

Brass has much higher conductivity than stainless, so if there's any doubt about the resistance of your connections, brass is the better bet. Brass is not a great choice if immersed in salt water as that leaches out the tin leaving a soft copper sponge - bronze, inconel and stainless are better choices for marine use. Some real high tension, high current wiring may even use copper hardware - even weaker than brass, but still higher conductivity. Just about impossible to find in normal commerce, so don't even bother to search for it.
https://www.bluesea.com/resources/108/Electrical_Conductivity_of_Materials

[ex-Gooserider]

Could you bust open a couple of old batteries and use the lead plates?

Possible, but not recommended... Serious haz-mat issues starting with lead contaminated sulfuric acid electrolyte, followed by all the paste on the plates, etc... Major toxic fumes when melting... Unless major efforts are made to remove it, the resulting lead will still have all sorts of sulfur compounds that can turn corrosive when they pick up atmospheric moisture....

At least in the US, battery recyclers are heavily regulated and have to go through a great deal of stuff to minimize environmental impact....

Not a good place to try to save as you risk much greater medical bills, not to mention environmental remediation costs if you get caught....

ex-Gooserider

[Mechniki]

BC Lithium Batteries BCTZ14S-FP-S LiFePO4 Motorcycle Battery £90 - they're 4Ah
Could I jumper these across to a pair of Lead acid batteries and still charge them with the standard wheelchair charger?

[Burgerman]

180 uk pounds for FOUR Ah? Are you crazy?

They will work, they will not be reliable, and they will give you about 1 mile extra. They will die very fast if your lead battery isnt really healthy too. And by the sounds of things it isnt...

You are putting sticky tape on a burst pipe. There are various threads here on addon packs. From 30Ah to 80Ah extra. Those work.

[Mechniki]

Yes a lot
i'm the kind of wheelchair user that thinks if I am in the road crossing, I have right of way over a car

[Mechniki]

You will be unlucky if that happens. I have been a couple of times. But 2/3rds of the time you never get charged. Unless from the US, in which case because the US postal service hands over to the UK postal service you get screwed every time. Anything to do with parcel force, royal mail, and so on is basically the remnants of a socialist gov run system, they charge VAT and rip you off by charging a huge amount for "collecting from customs" and then they dont actually deliver, they make you pay first while holding your parcel hostage for another week or two. Then they ring the bell and before you can answer the door, they are gone leaving a number you can call to collect it yourself. Because thats easier for them. Never use them for anything. The sooner they go bust the better.

I had 6 eagle eyed LED fog light ordered from the US £26, and 2 red
Got a card from Royal Mail asking for £14+ as there was a custom fee and their charge was £8 +vat - and I told them initially by returning the card with a second class stamp, that under the Act of 1968 it was illegal to charge VAT on a disability intended product. They sent back the card to me with franking all over the stamp, so I know they received it - i put another second class stamp on it and sent it back telling them they may as well send the parcel back
, that also got returned back to me, only with their writing I had 3 days to pay £14+ or they would send the parcel back

I shredded their card

[shirley_hkg]

You recommend thread lock to hold the bolts against vibration. Loctile 243 cures in 30 mins .
With HEADWAY 40152 , we have 144 bolts . All bolts are to be in place first, before we move forward to tighten them .

What's the trick？

[Burgerman]

Loosen 1 at a time. Add loctite. Tighten.

[shirley_hkg]

Do you recommend flange bolts to hex socket cap one ?
Need bolts to do EVE-LF90 connections .

[Burgerman]

They are loosened easier but make better contact. So maybe...

[Scooterman]

Would this do as a cheaper alternative to the 180A Turnigy? It's big enough for the scooter (Amps), the scooter being single channel and drawing a max 120A.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FT08-RC-150A ... :pf:0#rwid

I was thinking of mounting and hardwiring one on the scooter body work, as an Ah out fuel gauge so I know when best to recharge the batteries.

Do you think it could be reset by breaking just the live feed with something like this?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1000-Amp-Fix ... :rk:2:pf:0

[Gnomatic]

I think that switch would be fine to reset the counters of the watt meter.

Here's a watt meter I'm thinking of getting. 200A

https://smile.amazon.com/HTRC-Precision ... er+rc+200a

Specification:
Operates from 4.8v to 60v or 0V to 60V with optional auxiliary battery.
Measures 0 to 200A with a resolution of 0.01A
Measures 0 to 60V with a resolution of 0.01V
Measures 0 to 6554W with a resolution of 0.1W
Measures 0 to 650KWh with a resolution of 0.1Wh
Measures 0 to 6554Ah with a resolution of 0.01Ah
Cable:8AWG
Display:16 x 2 backlit LCD display
Color: Black
Size: 110 x 45 x 26mm
Net Weight: 150g

[Scooterman]

Thank you Gnomadic. Funnily enough the 150A version of the one you are thinking of getting looks visually identical to the one I’m thinking of getting on eBay. Although I haven’t compared the specs

[Burgerman]

With all of those things it all comes down to the software and who wrote it and how good it is. So better to get the turnigy one since its a known quantity or it may or may not be good!

[Scooterman]

With all of those things it all comes down to the software and who wrote it and how good it is. So better to get the turnigy one since its a known quantity or it may or may not be good!

[shirley_hkg]

Move on.

[Gnomatic]

shirley that looks great!