PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[shirley_hkg]

[Burgerman]

Are you sure you dont have a cables or cell connection issue? Looks very erratic.

[shirley_hkg]

No. It's the IN and OUT of an external 8A dump .

[shirley_hkg]

[shirley_hkg]

Sign , seal & deliver .

[LROBBINS]

Shirley, I have a non-battery question. Where did you get that jack - it looks quite sturdy.

[shirley_hkg]

It's from Italy , 10 years ago , 60kg load .

[LROBBINS]

Is their a brand name on it? I haven't seen anything quite like that around here - and I live in Italy, but in a "citta' d'arte" rather than an industrial city.

[Burgerman]

http://www.scissor-lift-tables.co.uk/ta ... ft-tables/

[shirley_hkg]

Lost .

[Burgerman]

OK info about the PL8V2 and the new one with the bump thingy...


Hey John
tks for the email:

Please can you answer 3 questions:
1. Is the PL8V2 about to be discontinued any time soon?
NO

2. Does the new one, with bump controller (that I don’t want or need) have the same level of
adjustability as the PL8 with its CCS software?
Yes definitely

3. Will the new windows software (when available) be as comprehensive as the current CCS/PL8?
Actually it does not change and the same software can be used

So you are all safe regardless. But we still dont need a silly bump controller. Thats for the flying site so you dont inadvertantly charge the wrong pack with incorrect settings when things are busy/hectic. Already burned a new lipo that way!

[expresso]

thats good to know - either way - i got a spare in case - they say one thing and do another

[Burgerman]

Me too.

But that info was from the horses mouth. http://www.leo-energy.com/

[expresso]

either way - we should be good for a while with the current charger and one spare - by the time we need to get new ones - should be all sorted out hopefully and if its true what they say - should be fine with new one when time comes - or by then another one to replace the new one they just made

[shirley_hkg]

OK info about the PL8V2 and the new one with the bump thingy...


Hey John
tks for the email:

Please can you answer 3 questions:
1. Is the PL8V2 about to be discontinued any time soon?
NO

So you are all safe regardless.

That's a relief to me .

[Burgerman]

In the hobby world the lifespan of products is usually measured in months. Esp tech products like this. Newer, updated, more powerful variants or cheaper copies come along fast. So far this has been available for about a 8 years. Which is pretty amazing. However for the first 5 years it wasnt much use to us as it had too many firmware issues regarding lead charging, and lifepo4 charging. Making it useless for us.

I bought one to charge hobby lipos, and to get a better look and then started emailing them. I wanted about 8 or 9 changes. They did about 5 of them. But fortunately those were the most important ones. So after a lot of argument we sort of won. It now does almost everything we need. Still has no float for lead. But thats not essential. Still cannot charge lithium ion without cell taps/balancing for safety reasons. Some packs have BMS an so have no cell balance taps. So we are still screwed there. But I have been harrasing them to do this. But theres a workaround. Use LEAD set to 2.1V and DOUBLE the cell count. So charge a lithium ion cobalt 6S type pack, as Lead, 12S set to 2.100V per cell.

[expresso]

what are we going to do without BM

Most important is the lithium for our chairs first - Lead second - once you go lithium even on a ADD ON pack - you never go back

[robert97]

in august i built a pair of 7S5P packs using 70 Headway 38140S 12Ah LiFePO4 for 46volts.
i started with best intentions of balancing the groups after 4 weeks of
letting full cells sit. but i made mistakes and ended up with random groupings.

my "front" pack is not well balanced:
cell group 7 hits max voltage before the rest, and cell groups 1 and 2 lag behind.

i am prepared to rebuild the pack. besides loose bolts,
is there anything i should look for?
or just start over: disassemble, charge each cell, sit 4 weeks,
recharge, note leakage and rebuild groups with same average leakage?

[Burgerman]

After 4 moths? Not that bad. But you have one group that seems better than the rest. So maybe that one has the loose bolt...

Retighten all. Charge at 3.65v once for at least a couple of hours after all cells reach full voltage.

Remove say 10Ah. Recharge after 10 days. See what happens.

[ex-Gooserider]

FWIW, a while back I wrote to Revolectrix with some questions about hardware / software requirements on running a PL-8, given my objections to things Microsoft.... I got a very nice response, relevant bits copied below, with my questions and the responses in red...

1. I normally run 100% Linux on all my machines, I do not like or trust any Microsoft products as I find them
consistently insecure, unreliable and generally a pain to use. Do you offer any Linux support? No, only Windows and
the CCS also requires MS .NET.

2. Do you know if it is possible to run the Revolectrix software under Wine or any other similar emulator? Will
it work on a machine using KVM or other virtualizing software? We do not know.

3. What is the minimum version of Windows that is absolutely required? If I have to use it, I do own a couple
of 32-bit machines that run XP, and I'd like to use one of those rather than being forced to go out and buy a dedicated
box with something newer... it will run on Win XP; no problem. Recommend you update .NET to the latest version before
you install the PL8v2 CCS App.

4. Is it required to have the Windows machine connected to the Internet to install the software? Is there some
way to download everything onto my Linux box and sneakernet it to the Windows machine? I believe that connecting a
Microsoft product to the Internet is about as safe as unprotected sex with a partner you KNOW has every STD in the
book... We do have special, local install versions of all our software products.


1) Go to: http://www.revolectrix.com/downloads.htm

2) Scroll down to the Software Updates section

3) Click on the first link "All Products Software (CD Install versions)"

4) Follow the instructions under the link to perform a local install. Local installs are not eligible for automatic
internet updates which sounds like what you want. The CCS app you install using this installer program can not be
updated and I am not sure how old it is. If the firmware packed up in this installation is v3.31, then it is likely the
current CCS version. Since the PL8v2 is a mature product, it is not likely there will be any new firmware offered or
CCS upgrades. I think you should be happy with this method of installation.



5. Similarly, is it necessary to have the machine connected to the Internet to USE the software? (I am not all that
worried about getting updates, and really don't want ones I don't know about...) No. If you install from the website,
you should still be able to run the CCS without being connected …

So looks like I should be able to use the same mini-notebook with XP (all it can handle) that I use for the Hyperion, the P&G software, and other such limited use applications...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Thats a copy and past letter for other people with a hysterical and frankly rediculous attitude to windows. With XP though, that was rubbish, and almost 20 years old I also wouldnt connect to the web. 7 or 10 are fine. And free. And make the thing you use look like a half finished antique. Anything running XP should have no problem at all with 7 or 10.

How do I know the letter is mostly copy/paste? Because the updates and fixes for charging lead, and lithium ion phosphate, that was essential to properly charge both, that were instigated by about 75 emails and much descussion are in versions 3.32 and the current 3.33. If you attempt to charge either with 3.31 then I wish you luck!

[Burgerman]

Actually when I think about it, unless your charger has been in stock over 2 years it should have firmware 3.33 on it already, so you dont need to connect to the web.

[ex-Gooserider]

I've been forced to use 10 a few times and really hated it, not even close to anything normal... They even broke 'press start to stop'....

I'm not putting anything from Microsoft on-line, so XP is fine for my needs...

Also as I understand it, 10 is a 64-bit system, I don't think the old mini-note I'm using can do a 64-bit OS, I know it wouldn't take the 64-bit version of Libre-Office I tried to install on it...

At any rate I think I've downloaded everything I need, and gotten it onto a stick, will be trying to get the software set up on the mini-note in the next day or so.

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

I've been forced to use 10 a few times and really hated it, not even close to anything normal... They even broke 'press start to stop'....

32 or 64...
Start stop is exactly as before.
And completely safe on the web if the user is even remotely competant. Never mind, keep convincing yourself its crap ifit makesyou feel good. XP will definitely help there! You are living in the 1995 and keep on reinforcing your over exadurated hysteria...

[Gnomatic]

Win 10 is fine with me. 8.0 and 8.1 were shit. Unless you modded the UI.

[Burgerman]

7 ok too, easier to get into a usable state and less unwanted crap that you have to get rid of, but 8 was really for touch screen devices. 10 does both well.

[steves1977uk]

*Ahem*... https://www.cvedetails.com/top-50-products.php?year=0 Linux is more secure???

Steve

[ex-Gooserider]

*Ahem*... https://www.cvedetails.com/top-50-products.php?year=0 Linux is more secure???

Steve

Note the graph down the bottom of that page - consider how long Linux has been around, vs. W10... Glancing down the list, Linux is the OLDEST product there (IIRC, it predated XP. I know that I went from MS-DOS plus Windows (actually I used Desqview more often) to Linux), so has had more time to accumulate problems for that counter.... Perhaps more valid comparison is Linux (1,999) vs Microsoft (8,917)....

Also the question can be asked about how many of those vulnerabilities were 'Zero-day' exploits, with actual 'in the wild' use made of them... Also what the time from announcement to patch for each is... How many of those vulnerabilities gave 'root' access? (Since most Windows versions all but required running as root, most MS vulnerabilities automatically gave root access, Linux systems make it much harder to get root...)

==============
At any rate, I believe that I have now gotten the PL8 software running on my very slow XP mini-notebook (It is a Dell "Inspiron Per label "Designed for XP", and using an "Atom" CPU, I just found a 2009 date on the board under the only removable access plate....)

As a quick test, I used the 'factory' preset with the cable I made for charging via the XLR plug to charge my Jazzy for a few minutes, and it seemed to work OK...

However I now need to get all the presets to do the Lithium conversion, charge my lead bricks properly, and so on... Do we have a central collection, or do I need to dredge through the PL-8 thread???

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

It actually "runs" on a daft atom? I am amazed. Must be frustratingly slow.

I can do you some presets to suit your lead/lithium if you tell me what they are exactly. And you can then use those to change settings and resave for different types and sizes or charge cables etc. (EG I increase termination current when charging my van because its already got 140mA cont draw... And increase again because its not deep cycled to around 150mA, and reduce CV time out to 2 hours and charge at 14.4V and 12A. These are better suited to a top up.)

Whats the difference? About half a dozen hidden settings. But once you have 1 lead, and 1 or 2 lithium presets, then you can use those for everything. As long as you know what you are setting and why.

They all need 3.33x firmware.

[ex-Gooserider]

Ok, I didn't think it was that individualized... Right now I see four presets as most needed -

1. Chair w/ Group 34 Odysseys, going either through the XLR plug or directly to my 24V / 45A Anderson outlet.

2. Chair w/ Group 24 MK-Gels, unknown vintage, but pretty hammered.

3. Individual charge on Headway cells for pack construction

4. Chair w/ Headway pack - 6P 8S, so 24v nominal... (when done it will be replacing the MK-Gels)

If it matters I'm using a 24V / 63A power supply, but in order not to blow fuses, I'm limiting the PL-8 to 20A max in.... (I'm usually sharing circuits with others, so don't want to draw more than 5-6A on the 110V side...)

(And yes, the Atom mini-note is VERY slow when doing anything intensive, but if all I'm running is the PL8 SW it seems OK... For the price (free) it does an OK job...)

ex-Gooserider