PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 08 Mar 2018, 23:18

And its grp27 sized and the same capacity as group27 lead.

The point of going to lithium is that its possible to add additional Ah, often by a large margin. This has many advantages.

Range increases can be huge! I dont think any of us here are using less than a 30% capacity increase, and usually more.
For eg nandol swapped 73Ah for 180Ah lithium. I just swapped 68Ah for 120Ah lithium. In new york, expresso swapped73Ah lead for 90Ah + 36Ah addon lithium. Snaker has 200Ah and so ran out of country to drive in.

Longevity. A big pack is charged maybe weekly in winter. So sees the high charged voltage, and the low discharged voltages that it hates less often. So your 1500 to 2000 cycles last many, many years. Also if you increase the Ah you are taking half the amps from any cell (C rate) which they like. Lives longer. So lead brick replacements as linked (if the BMS or cell C rate doesent cause issues) are both going to be problematic, and dont offer much in the way of range or lifespan gains.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby shirley_hkg » 09 Mar 2018, 03:24

QUADPHONICS wrote:what I mean is I use a lithium ion battery in my Bounder plus power chair .

Why not ? They offer lithium package themselves .
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby shirley_hkg » 09 Mar 2018, 03:57


John , I'm planning a 7S126P with these top grade PANASONIC 3400mAH cells ; 24V420Ah.

One thing would like to know is, there will be quite some period of time , the voltage will linger 28--29.4V . Will the electronics survive , other than the regeneration issue ?
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 09 Mar 2018, 04:23

I dont think there will be a problem. But I for one may be tempted to do a very compact energy dense addon with those cells. But I wouldnt sit on them. Saw some burst into a nice firework display at xmas. On an indoor flying quadcopter. Also the energy density looks great. But you will only get a tesla style service life if you avoid full/empty as they do. So you will only really have 60 to 70 percent of rated capacity. Or you will get about 300 to 500 cycles.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 09 Mar 2018, 04:37

Found this. So you can see what I am talking about. http://blog.evandmore.com/lets-talk-abo ... ncr18650b/

To get good cycle life tesla/volt use a lower limit of 17%, and a max charge of 80%. Meaning that 37% of the capacity isnt ever used. So only 63% of your 3.4Ah is usable. This is why phone and laptop batteries die. So you wont be using 29.4V charge! A 90% charge would be 4.150V. An 80% charge is 4.10V approx.

Or you would be down to only 70% or rated capacity in just over a year... Or just 350 cycles at 80% remaining capacity.
Not quite the battery you want! Also they do not like fast recharge esp when cold / 10 Centigrade. That really damages them.

In other words, a 300 mile range tesla, really has a 500 mile range, but they never use more than 63%.

Please note... An error by the writer:
There seems to be some misunderstanding regarding the linked study. It definitely does not indicate a number of cycles in the range of 40000. Instead, Table 2 shows e.g. the total amount of charge taken from the battery is 3610Ah, corresponding to 1128 equivalent full cycles, when a partial discharge of 60% total capacity starting at 75% state-of-charge is used, i.e. from 75% to 15%.


So with those cells, using 60% available capacity increases cycles from 350@80% capacity or 500@70% remaing to 1128 cycles...
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby shirley_hkg » 09 Mar 2018, 05:11

Roger .
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 09 Mar 2018, 09:59

QUADPHONICS


I think he is saying he already has a lithium bounder with their stock setup. And wants to know if the headway/pl8 charger will work?

Yes!
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby garriew » 01 Apr 2018, 01:15

I've decided that no matter how much I read, I'll be confused. Well, I learn better by doing so I'm just going to jump in.

I have a Permobil M300. It will hold group 24 & 34. One in the front and one in the back. But I need a charger first. What would you recommend?
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 01 Apr 2018, 01:17

PL8v2 celpro.
The red/black things...
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby garriew » 01 Apr 2018, 17:38

I found this one.

http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... 04?whence=

Is there anything else I need like the USB Interface Module, Plier Clip Assembly?
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 01 Apr 2018, 18:01

You need a couple of 36 inch balance extentions as thats the only connector that fits, a USB interface, and ebay some of the safe 32A banana plugs.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby garriew » 01 Apr 2018, 21:16

I just ordered the below from usastore.revolectrix.com

(4) Cellpro (JST PA) PowerLab 36" Extension Cable
(1) FUIM3 USB Interface Module for 2-way data communication
(1) Revolectrix Cellpro PowerLab Plier Clip Assembly
(1) Cellpro PowerLab 8 v2 with EC5 input cable, 1344W, Multichemistry Battery Workstation

I also ordered a "PowerLab 60A Plier Clip Assembly" from another site.

The extention cable looks different than the one Bergman has at:
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-con ... -pl8v2.jpg

Lastly, I couldn't find "safe 32A banana plugs." But how many will be needed when I do find them?
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 02 Apr 2018, 01:52

(1) Revolectrix Cellpro PowerLab Plier Clip Assembly


This is for what? It would only be used if you connect the charger and power it from a battery in a car as hobby flyers do at the flying feild.

Otherwise yes.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Connector-Br ... 0005.m1851

Only use these. To connect the charge cables to the PL8. Tested at 40A and cannot short out your battery in error! Everything else will melt as the contact area and construction cant cope.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby garriew » 02 Apr 2018, 02:08

I got it because it looked like you was charging single cells with it.

What power supply do use/suggest?
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 02 Apr 2018, 02:17

That cable goes on the other end of the charger. You can cut the blue connector off, and use 2 of the banana connectors I linked to, instead. Then you can use it on the output of the charger to charge single cells or a a car batery etc.
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Re: Step by step lithium conversion?

Postby garriew » 02 Apr 2018, 04:01

Burgerman wrote:I have these. Well made. http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/20110 ... try-nickel
>>>Singapore store?
Yes.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/272368556008?ul_noapp=true

Would these be good? The seller said they are a Zink Alloy.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 02 Apr 2018, 04:12

Should be.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Mind The Gap » 04 Apr 2018, 09:48

Hi All

Just ordered 50 ea. 4 holes connecting plate for 38140s
76 ea Headway 38140S 12ah LiFePO4 Cell - screw tab.
Can't wait to get stuck in getting them ready :D

Regards Paul
Otto Bock B500 with 105ah lifepo4 main, 48ah lifepo4 addon. 153ah total.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 04 Apr 2018, 11:34

76?

8x8 64
9x8 72
10x8 80

:eh:
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Mind The Gap » 04 Apr 2018, 12:31

Hi BM

4 spares

Paul
Otto Bock B500 with 105ah lifepo4 main, 48ah lifepo4 addon. 153ah total.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 04 Apr 2018, 14:20

I bought 2 spares. 7 years ago. I still have them.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby expresso » 04 Apr 2018, 17:04

i had a few spares also - i still have them - but i did end up using one spare after the first year - just my bad luck maybe - but glad i had the spares - i had extra spares and made a 12V pack for another item i use it for - its great to have spares - never know - you dont want to wait around if you ever needed one -

i got extra spares with the intention of using 4 of them for something else also if i didnt use them for the chair - i still have 2 spares which i hope i wont have to use - been going good for close to 3 summers now - this summer will be the third with lithium :clap:
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby garriew » 04 Apr 2018, 18:04

Do I need a power supply w/ the Cellpro PowerLab 8 v2?
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 04 Apr 2018, 18:22

A battery in a car, anything from 12 to 30V works fine. You need a 35 A or more and 24V up to 30V to get maximum power which is a lot. But you can also run it from a smaller supply.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby garriew » 05 Apr 2018, 04:14

Burgerman wrote:A battery in a car, anything from 12 to 30V works fine. You need a 35 A or more and 24V up to 30V to get maximum power which is a lot. But you can also run it from a smaller supply.


Would this be a good PS?

http://lipoconnectionsolutions.com/HP-2 ... 241500.htm

If yes, what would you chose for the charger type? and other options?
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Mind The Gap » 05 Apr 2018, 09:25

Update

Hello Paul,
We have received your order online. Thanks for your business.
For the reason that Headway facotory temparily stop their plan to produce more 38140S 12Ah model since Jan(they said the demand is much lower than their other models), right now we only have some stock for this model. They don't produce it and may no longer produce this model even we order a lot.
So we are sorry for the inconvenience, and we suggest you to think about if you can use 38120S 10Ah model or 40152S 15Ah model which we can ship immediately.

Sorry for the inconvenience. And please kindly let us know your advice and we will work on it accordingly.


Have updated order to 58 40125s with 4 hole connecting plates, waiting for repy.

Paul
Otto Bock B500 with 105ah lifepo4 main, 48ah lifepo4 addon. 153ah total.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Gnomatic » 05 Apr 2018, 15:47

garriew wrote:
Burgerman wrote:A battery in a car, anything from 12 to 30V works fine. You need a 35 A or more and 24V up to 30V to get maximum power which is a lot. But you can also run it from a smaller supply.


Would this be a good PS?

http://lipoconnectionsolutions.com/HP-2 ... 241500.htm

If yes, what would you chose for the charger type? and other options?


I have that PSU with an EC5 connector. It works well enough with my PL8.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby expresso » 05 Apr 2018, 16:03

Mind The Gap wrote:Update

Hello Paul,
We have received your order online. Thanks for your business.
For the reason that Headway facotory temparily stop their plan to produce more 38140S 12Ah model since Jan(they said the demand is much lower than their other models), right now we only have some stock for this model. They don't produce it and may no longer produce this model even we order a lot.
So we are sorry for the inconvenience, and we suggest you to think about if you can use 38120S 10Ah model or 40152S 15Ah model which we can ship immediately.

Sorry for the inconvenience. And please kindly let us know your advice and we will work on it accordingly.


Have updated order to 58 40125s with 4 hole connecting plates, waiting for repy.

Paul



If you can fit those 15Ah - you be better off anyway - more juice :) since you ordered them i am guessing they will fit -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby garriew » 05 Apr 2018, 16:21

Gnomatic wrote:I have that PSU with an EC5 connector. It works well enough with my PL8.
Did you order it w/ bullet connectors?
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby garriew » 05 Apr 2018, 16:43

garriew wrote:
Gnomatic wrote:I have that PSU with an EC5 connector. It works well enough with my PL8.
Did you order it w/ bullet connectors?

I figured it out.
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