PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 22 Apr 2019, 10:15

Could a DIY PSU be as simple as a 240/30v transformer, bridge rectifier, smoothing capacitor, and say zenner diode for volt regulation? Or is it a bit more involved than that?


Yes if you want an old style massive transformer that can supply 1700 watts with a bit of reserve. It will be about 18 inches square, and about 50lb. And super inefficient. So as big and heavy as the battery. Shirleys suppy is 3000 watts, so plenty in reserve, way more efficient. And 10% of the weight and size. And better regulated, adjustable and much cheaper.

This is the wrong voltage, but about the right size and weight a transformer would need to be.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/3kva-Transform ... 2196479941

Plus your rectifier, voltage regulation etc.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Scooterman » 22 Apr 2019, 10:44

Ah! We used to use them at work for power tools. They also do a 25v version which is mauve. I’ll have a look later
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 22 Apr 2019, 10:49

Remember you will still need 1700 watts into the PL8, DC. So you need to also add a regulated 50A output at 24V to it... Way too big and heavy.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby shirley_hkg » 22 Apr 2019, 12:01

Burgerman wrote:
Could a DIY PSU be as simple as a 240/30v transformer, bridge rectifier, smoothing capacitor, and say zenner diode for volt regulation? Or is it a bit more involved than that?


Yes if you want an old style massive transformer that can supply 1700 watts with a bit of reserve. It will be about 18 inches square, and about 50lb. And super inefficient. So as big and heavy as the battery. Shirleys suppy is 3000 watts, so plenty in reserve, way more efficient. And 10% of the weight and size. And better regulated, adjustable and much cheaper.
etc.


Yes. Shirley has bunch of them to offer.

Let's say a £15.00 one .
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby shirley_hkg » 22 Apr 2019, 12:06

German quality, with no fan needed. :clap:
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Scooterman » 22 Apr 2019, 13:36

Ooh they’re cheap Shirley :thumbup:

I’m sure there’s room under scooter’s bodywork to mount one of them, I shall have a measure this week. But if not, at that size and weight they a lot more portable than the zxd2400?

It would only be for recharging away from home. For everyday charging I will continue to use the zxd2400
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby ex-Gooserider » 23 Apr 2019, 06:30

Burgerman wrote:Correct NYLOC nuts. Not NYLON nuts!!!


Yes, but there are also nylon nuts that lock - very useful in applications where there is a lot of corrosion concern... When I was growing up the parents sold a sailing catamaran called the Aqua-Cat, which at the time was the world's biggest one-design catamaran class. (and IMHO is still one of the best sailboat designs I've ever seen...)

It used to be called the 'plumbers nightmare' because it was made with a lot of aluminum tubes fastened together w/ castings - the tubes slid into the castings and were held in place by stainless cross-bolts... The factory used nylon self locking nuts, which were easily removed if needed... The trick was not to put to much torque on them as they stripped easily... We had many encounters where the owners had replaced the nylon nuts with steel or stainless nuts, and they were ALWAYS corroded in place - if the boat had been used in salt water or for more than a season in fresh, it wasn't even worth trying to remove, cause it wasn't happening....

The nylon nuts would absolutely NOT be good for building packs, or anyplace where there was a significant torque spec, but for low torque applications where corrosion is a concern they are great...
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby ex-Gooserider » 23 Apr 2019, 06:31

Scooterman wrote:Ooh they’re cheap Shirley :thumbup:

I’m sure there’s room under scooter’s bodywork to mount one of them, I shall have a measure this week. But if not, at that size and weight they a lot more portable than the zxd2400?

It would only be for recharging away from home. For everyday charging I will continue to use the zxd2400


Basically there are two methods of changing AC voltages to different DC voltages.... Transformers and 'switching supplies'

The oldest method is the simple transformer with two coils of wire where the ratio of the coil windings determined the input and output AC voltages, feeding through one or more diodes or a bridge rectifier which produced a 'ripply' DC, that you then smoothed by use of caps and / or coils, and possibly a voltage regulator.... This worked, but was very inefficient and needed big bulky equipment.... The basic problem is that a lot of the time you were either getting to much voltage or not enough, but the input coil was always 'on'....


The modern method is to use what is called a 'switcher' supply that turns the power from the input side on and off several thousand times a second in order to give an 'output' of the desired voltage - at each 'switch cycle' the supply turns on if the voltage is lower than the target and off if it's higher - (this is a gross oversimplification but that's the basic concept) They are MUCH more complex from the electronics circuit design standpoint, but are hugely more efficient, along with being smaller and lighter....

It is a big enough difference that it is almost impossible to find anyone still making pure transformer type supplies - they are just to expensive (copper costs...) as well as bulky and heavy. The power companies also really want you to use switcher supplies - a 'good' transformer supply might be 25% efficient, while a switcher is typically over 80% and good ones over 90% efficient....

The supplies that Shirley just posted about are switchers, judging from the pictures, intended as 'rack-mount' in electronics cabinets (this was also what the ZDX supply started out as)

However I would NOT recommend trying to mount one as an 'on board' charger.... As noted in the ZDX documentation, there are a lot of relatively heavy components in these supplies, most noticeably the several transformers you can see in the photos... Unless extreme measures are taken (typically 'potting' everything in place) these will bounce under rough treatment and cause failed solder connections and / or broken boards....

I would only consider mounting a supply that was specifically marketed as intended for vehicle or other rough service mounting and use.... Typically those tend to be lower output, but if all you need is an emergency 'get home' boost......

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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 23 Apr 2019, 12:29

Do as I do. Make up a 2 meter cable, from 10sqmm with a couple of large battery clamps on one end. And whatever you have on the input to the PL8. Andersons of course on mine. Wrap up neatly, put with the PL8. If you are ever stuck, call up a freind, or dial a taxi, or abreakdown company and use their cars engine/battery as a power supply for say 10 or 20 mins to power the PL8. Enough to replace whatever you need to get home.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby shirley_hkg » 23 Apr 2019, 13:43

shirley_hkg wrote: Going to get hold some EVE-LF105 cells , directly from factory . 105Ah rated and brand new .

It has M4 threads , 6mm deep only , and recommend 8Nm.
drunk2


Brand new from factory
@2019-04-19.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby shirley_hkg » 23 Apr 2019, 13:49

Will keep me busy for weeks . cheers .
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 23 Apr 2019, 13:53

Size and price for 16 delivered please!

210 Ah -- keeps getting better. :fencing
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Gnomatic » 23 Apr 2019, 16:19

Wow, that's awesome shirley! 105Ah per cell that is nuts! czy
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 23 Apr 2019, 16:55

We dont actually know the size, as in mm yet!

Found it. http://www.dcmax.com.tw/LF105(3.2V105Ah).pdf

Specs are good.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby expresso » 23 Apr 2019, 23:32

How Much ? 105ah Cells
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby granian » 24 Apr 2019, 00:09

I am unable to open the link you put up BM it is showing as unable to open url with additional 404 fault, Showing as not secure.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby expresso » 24 Apr 2019, 00:15

http://www.dcmax.com.tw/

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... .com.tw%2F

go to product description - same as other cells - 90ah etc, just 105ah -

the cost is the key --
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2019, 04:31

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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby granian » 24 Apr 2019, 19:23

Thanks all up and running.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby terry2 » 25 Apr 2019, 09:38

I've been trying to get these imperial thin nyloc nuts in M6 but having no luck.
If anyone spots them. Could they post a link here please?

The thinnest M6 Nyloc nuts I have found are 6mm in length.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zinc-Plated-Ny ... way&sr=8-2
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 25 Apr 2019, 09:40

Dont think you will get thinner than that.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby terry2 » 25 Apr 2019, 09:47

Burgerman wrote:Dont think you will get thinner than that.



I can't find those nuts in metric(M6) anywhere. Only Imperial.
That's I am hoping someone in the world sees them.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby woodygb » 25 Apr 2019, 10:04

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby terry2 » 25 Apr 2019, 10:26

woodygb wrote:https://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/Metric-Nuts/Nyloc-Nut-Type-T-Thin-M6-A4-Stainless.html
https://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/Da ... exNy_M.pdf

"Thin" seems to be defined as height of 6mm.... my standard m6's nylocs measure 7.5 mm

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nylon-Insert-N ... B00816QSUG



Thank you for those links.

I agree that 6mm is what they call thin in metric.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby Burgerman » 25 Apr 2019, 10:30

And 3 of those mm are the nylon locking part. So that leaves just 3mm of thread :fencing which isnt much. So very few turns. So thinner isnt practical.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby shirley_hkg » 27 Apr 2019, 02:49

First half of a 2P8S pack @EVE-LF105.

No surprise , but still good as this is the first cycle.

100.02Ah weakest cell #4 @3.00V , C.C. discharged at 8.75A

Voltages began to vary at the last 4 amp.
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby snaker » 27 Apr 2019, 03:06

More than perfect :thumbup:
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby snaker » 27 Apr 2019, 03:13

These 105Ah cells are sold here too.
http://lifepo4.vn/product/pin-eve-lf-3- ... le-dod-80/
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby expresso » 27 Apr 2019, 03:25

those are the best of the best - :thumbup:
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
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Re: PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

Postby expresso » 27 Apr 2019, 03:26

how much ?
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
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