PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 28 Mar 2012, 16:56

Any joy Scott/Brax?
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 28 Mar 2012, 17:46

If you wish to check that the cable is working download DACIO

http://www.freewarefiles.com/DACIO-RS-T ... 39574.html

and perform a loopback test ...you simply type something on the screen it's transmitted ( BLACK) AND recieved ( GREEN )...an echo of the letters TYPED....

screenshot with display settings and also my COM port settings.

dacio11.jpg
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 28 Mar 2012, 21:54

Another driver download link ..this includes a win7 specific file

http://www.jvp-com.biz/drivers/pl2303hx.zip
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby brax » 29 Mar 2012, 11:05

woodygb wrote:If you wish to check that the cable is working download DACIO

http://www.freewarefiles.com/DACIO-RS-T ... 39574.html

and perform a loopback test ...you simply type something on the screen it's transmitted ( BLACK) AND recieved ( GREEN )...an echo of the letters TYPED....

screenshot with display settings and also my COM port settings.

The attachment dacio11.jpg is no longer available


I was typing in the blue data entry pane and hitting send. I had to start each line with a /, #, or a ! . I

dacio2.JPG
dacio2.JPG (33.15 KiB) Viewed 4626 times


The comm3 seems to be working with everything but the software i want it to talk to.

It's 5 am here now and i've been at it all night i have to catch a few hours sleep.

i'll look at it again after some zzzz s

thanks for your help.
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 29 Mar 2012, 12:14

OK

That looks right.

So ..I'd pass the lead as working.

Chat again later.
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby brax » 30 Mar 2012, 18:17

Since i did the loopback test with the dacio utility I have tried giving the program administrator privileges. Woody sent me a link to permobil specific dealer level software, i really had my hopes up that that would at least get me a comms active reponse, It left me stranded at the same point as original installation. I have used window 7 utility to look for compatibility issues. It suggested i set it up under a xp service pack 2 virtual OS, which i tried. I have tried different usb jacks and different comm ports. Looked for and tried different drivers. I have set it up on a 64 bit win7 (34bit win7 on desktop) laptop. I always make sure to reboot after all the changes, which turns this into a time consuming endeavor.

The program sees and connects to the comm port, at least it doesn't give me the "cannot open serial port" message that i get with the cable out or the wrong port set. Woody's loopback test suggests that the lead is good. I'm beginning to think there is a fault in the chair, or the lead is not sending the voltage at a high enough threshold for the controller to respond? I have to get out in this slow chair and get a multimeter my old one seems to have sprouted legs. Any suggestions appreciated.

peace
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 30 Mar 2012, 18:21

I'll post you mine if you like...
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby brax » 31 Mar 2012, 09:12

Woody,

Lead is on it's way to you. Nice lady at the post office said 5 to 10 days.

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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 31 Mar 2012, 10:27

Mine/Yours is packaged up ... just got to get Wife and Grandson sorted ... then I will trundle down and post it.
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby brax » 02 Apr 2012, 12:19

Woody,
I was looking at the data sheets for the pl2303 chips. The older version (which they have discontinued) operated at 3.3 to 5v (usually set at 5v) The new versions operate at 1.8 to 3.3v and will not accept 5v.

Correct me if i'm wrong but the original serial cable powered the Rx Tx at 5v, so the controller chip in the pilot+ is looking for that voltage. Most micro-controller chips i have looked at have a minimum voltage level somewhere around 0.6 or 0.7 times the operating voltage. If our 5v pilot+ chip is similar it would need at least 3v at ??mA to illicit a response on it's Tx.

Unfortunately my multimeter was in hiding, and still has not revealed itself, while i was working on the cable. I was wondering if you made any measurements of your cable voltage or amperage.

I wanted to know if you thought this cable would work.

https://www.futureelectronics.com/en/te ... 5V-WE.aspx

My usb port can supply 500mA at 5v. This lead uses 450mA at 5v. Looking forward to your advice.

Thanks
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 02 Apr 2012, 14:17

The logic level conversion RS232 too UART TTL is a complete knightmare..

RS232 SEND ... logic 0 = High voltage level + and becomes Low voltage level ( 0.0 - 0.8v ) = TTL logic 0

and the reverse is true on the RECEIVE ... So logic levels are reversed.

I'm now of the opinion that the comms is just RS232 serial logic based....both the puter and controller talking RS232 level logic.

It would seem that the USB comms order should be RS232 Serial logic level .....which is converted by PL2303 to TTL logic level ... this then needs inverting and combining into one wire comms ... Serial port of Controller.

This inversion is borne out by the CURTIS Controller KPG lead diagram that I found ....
In which the KPG lead colours and signal inversion chip connections were correct ..but the LT1081( RS232 Dual Driver/Receiver) chip weren't.... (TX and RX were in fact erroneusly marked)...I had assumed they were CORRECT and this has caused me no end of grief!

I suspect that I got lucky with my KPG lead and some programming / extra components took care of the MISS MATCH IN LOGIC LEVELS.

Once I get your cable I can play with the above premise that I need to invert the TTL logic and combine the resulting RX/TX.


http://www.best-microcontroller-project ... works.html
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 02 Apr 2012, 14:25

.
Original CURTIS pic with my alterations ..feel free to check my premise.
kpg4curtis.jpg
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 02 Apr 2012, 17:14

Brax...The voltage level I measured was 4.8v

When you get the lead I've sent you could pop the cover ...it's only held on with a cable tie ... and take a close look at the 4 components in this awful picture I took....I believe that they may constitute the equivalent of a one wire interface.

http://www.findchips.com/ref/2N7002

possible.JPG
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby brax » 03 Apr 2012, 06:11

The single line Rx Tx is what has kind of thrown me in this set up. Not that i'm any kind of a electronics guy. I'm pretty good at looking for blown caps and amateur stuff. I've had a hard time getting my head around just how that works.

This schematic helps a little with that, but other than assuming the 4 FET's are performing switching actions to condition the signal either by switching or amplification. I assume the Schottky diode is performing some type of back flow arresting or barrier function. I'm a ways from understanding exactly what's going on in that circuit.

The data comes in on the Rx from the Rs232 hits VT3 and then VT2 which could be amplifying or switching then it flows through the shcottky diode out the single data line. When data flows into the circuit from the other direction on the single data line the shcottky diode forms a barrier which channels it to VT5 and then VT4 which is also conditioning the signal either through switching or amplification an then on out through the Tx.

That is my take on the circuit.

It does indeed appear to be the circuit that combines and separates the single data line. I would have to do more research to figure out what else it is doing to the signal, if much of anything. Please educate me if you know more about it's function.

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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 03 Apr 2012, 09:41

I'm NOT sure.

The original pic of the PGDT Serial port plug shows 2 opto couplers... I've now decided that they are inverting the serial logic signal....thus the controller is talking TTL level logic.

YOU have a look and decide what happens to the serial port logic signal.

http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/HC/HCPL0534.pdf
http://talkingelectronics.com/ChipDataE ... oList.html
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 03 Apr 2012, 10:20

Brax ..Your lead has just arrived!!!!!!!
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 03 Apr 2012, 10:39

It works for me Brax... connected straight away!
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby brax » 03 Apr 2012, 14:46

woodygb wrote:It works for me Brax... connected straight away!



On an individual level that is bad news for me, although good news in the larger picture. There is something in my chair that is stopping communication. Did you connect to a pilot+ controller? My software would see the lead just stayed Comms Inactive.

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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby Burgerman » 03 Apr 2012, 14:57

It worked on my Pilot Plus systems. I suspect that your serial port was either shared (change number) or higher than 8. The software only goes to 8...
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby brax » 03 Apr 2012, 15:04

No i made sure it was set to correct port change it do a couple different ports, tried different usb ports, even tried it on different computers.

something in my chair, must be.
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 03 Apr 2012, 15:13

I'm at a loss ..we covered all the port settings etc by email.

Any chance of a definitive id of your controller model?

Once you get mine we can only review everything again in the hope we spot an anomaly.
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby brax » 03 Apr 2012, 15:25

I'm going to tear into my chair later. I don't have a spare and need it so not sure exactly how long it will take me.

I also got a pilot+ controller off of ebay the other day, not even sure if it works yet, but i may try and see what it would take to set up a system to program on the bench.

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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby brax » 03 Apr 2012, 17:52

Woody,

Did you hook that cable into a chair? I looks like it works fine on just the computer side of things.Installs fine and the software sees the comm port. Just never did communicate on the chair.
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 03 Apr 2012, 18:01

I don't have a chair... but have a controller...

pic of your lead connected.


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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby Burgerman » 03 Apr 2012, 18:23

Some manufacturers (Like pride?) sometimes have custom firmware so that only they can connect with custom software?
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 03 Apr 2012, 18:39

His is a Permobil.... we even went to the trouble of loading Permobil dealer software ... just in case there was an encoding "trick"...but no dice.
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 03 Apr 2012, 18:48

BM ..What is your bench programming setup?

Joystick plus the controller to be programmed..or...
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby brax » 03 Apr 2012, 19:11

Sure wish i could see that comms active display here. Must be something in my chair. I need to get some type of bench controller programing here set up here, as i have this spare pilot+ off of another permobil machine. Do you use batteries or a power supply on your bench programing?

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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 03 Apr 2012, 19:27

I use a 24v supply consisting of 2 small 12v gel batteries in series.
The controller I have is an all in one joystick/controller combo and initially I powered it up AND programmed using the charger port ....I've since found the correct multi plug kicking about in my shed and now use that to connect battery power.
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Re: PGDT Serial interface cable ...USB Alternative :D

Postby woodygb » 03 Apr 2012, 19:58

Brax ...has your Permobil chair got ESP (Enhanced Steering Performance) ?

The WARNING may just apply to programming of the ESP ...it could possibly be global and apply to the complete system.
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