PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby ebc » 14 May 2019, 01:10

hi burgerman! Thank you so much for your help.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Tech » 15 May 2019, 00:57

I'm trying to track down the software for an old VSI controller (chair is a Jet 3 Ultra, made in 2004). I have the cable and XLR connector on order, so will be making that when it arrives. Thanks to woodgb for the schematics in the thread. I have a set of LiFePo4 batteries already installed. Test drove the chair and found out exactly what Burgerman means by 'stirring pudding'.

Also, wanted to drop a Thank You for everyone who has contributed to the site. I've been reading through everything for a few weeks now and soaking up all that I can.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Tech » 17 May 2019, 12:56

For the record, I had an FTDI breakout board from Sparkfun on-hand and was able to use that to make a interface cable stub instead of needing to purchase a cable for it.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby ex-Gooserider » 20 May 2019, 23:59

Looks like a nice build job, and I agree that those SparkFun FTDI boards are wonderfully handy items for connecting to all sorts of things...

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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby broken_slinky » 23 May 2019, 18:58

Does the TTL-232R cable assembly (diode and resistor in line) with the Neutrik connector work with all of the PG controllers? My Grandma's chair is a Heartway HP6RT with what I think is a VSI controller. The controller works as it should but the speed is set to the lowest value and does not seem to be adjustable. Shy of buying a handheld programmer or taking it to a dealer, I'd like to be able to adjust the speed back up to a sensible level for her.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 23 May 2019, 19:24

Tell me. How do you know its programmed to go slower?
Its only going to go at 7 to 8kph or 4.5mph at max speed. That does feel slow.
But you may be correct. Never tried programming a VSI as they are a little toy like. But it should be doable with the right cable. What you will be able to do is make it steer 100 times better. By increasing turn acceleration, minimum turn acceleration, turn deceleration, and minimum turn deceleration all to max. 100. And reducing turn speed as needed. It removes all the delay from the steering. And suddenly you gowhere you want.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby broken_slinky » 23 May 2019, 21:02

Burgerman wrote:Tell me. How do you know its programmed to go slower?
Its only going to go at 7 to 8kph or 4.5mph at max speed. That does feel slow.


I'm assuming it's at its lowest setting because the "speed" indicator LEDs are at the lowest value. Pressing the increase or decrease buttons does nothing. I pulled the controller apart to verify the conductive buttons were making good contact with the circuit board traces. Cleaned up the contacts while it was apart. Powered up the unit with it apart and shorted the traces to see if it would increase the speed LEDs. No joy.

Yeah, it's brutally slow. She can outrun it using her walker. :) Did a bit of a speed check on the thing. 10 to 12 feet in a minute sort of slow. Works out to roughly 0.25mph. Reminds me of the George Costanza scooter episode.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 23 May 2019, 22:18

Not sure those have inhibits for seating etc, could it be that? An inhibit?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby rover220 » 24 May 2019, 08:55

broken_slinky wrote:
Burgerman wrote:Tell me. How do you know its programmed to go slower?
Its only going to go at 7 to 8kph or 4.5mph at max speed. That does feel slow.


I'm assuming it's at its lowest setting because the "speed" indicator LEDs are at the lowest value. Pressing the increase or decrease buttons does nothing. .


you can operate the vsi in 2 modes just like vr2 and rnet.

mode 1 is profiles where each 'speed' light indicates which profile you are in. mode 2 is speed mode where each 'speed' light means the chair will go faster upto its programmed maximum.

you need to plug it in to confirm what its currently set as
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby broken_slinky » 24 May 2019, 12:12

rover220 wrote:
you can operate the vsi in 2 modes just like vr2 and rnet.

mode 1 is profiles where each 'speed' light indicates which profile you are in. mode 2 is speed mode where each 'speed' light means the chair will go faster upto its programmed maximum.

you need to plug it in to confirm what its currently set as


I'm assuming that the speed profiles cannot be changed by some sequence of button presses or joystick moves? Looks like I'll have to fab a cable and source the software. Thanks for the help!
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby broken_slinky » 24 May 2019, 12:45

Burgerman wrote:Not sure those have inhibits for seating etc, could it be that? An inhibit?


The wiring is pretty straight forward on this one. Batteries tied in series with a circuit breaker connected between the two. The other two battery leads run up to the top 4 of the 9 pins on the Beau connector. Off the Beau connector, the 4 bottom pins are dedicated to the 2 motors and the brake comes off the center round pin and the top two pins of the Beau. From the Beau, it runs directly into the VSI controller. On the nose end of the VSI is the 3 pin Neutrik connector for charging the batteries and programming. Between the motors and Beau is a 4 pin Anderson connector. Coming off each battery is an Anderson connector with an inline fuse holder. I couldn't find any signs of wiring that was removed. Heartway manuals are not worth the paper they're printed on but I did find another manufacturer (Sunrise Medical) that had almost the identical controls and wiring layout on their Quickie S-11 model. It has no provisions for lights, linear actuators, Brens, etc...
Rather nice layout and you're able to isolate individual components without ripping apart connections.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby rover220 » 24 May 2019, 17:00

broken_slinky wrote:
rover220 wrote:
you can operate the vsi in 2 modes just like vr2 and rnet.

mode 1 is profiles where each 'speed' light indicates which profile you are in. mode 2 is speed mode where each 'speed' light means the chair will go faster upto its programmed maximum.

you need to plug it in to confirm what its currently set as


I'm assuming that the speed profiles cannot be changed by some sequence of button presses or joystick moves? Looks like I'll have to fab a cable and source the software. Thanks for the help!


afraid not, it will need programming.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby broken_slinky » 24 May 2019, 17:29

rover220 wrote:afraid not, it will need programming.


Happen to know of an open source or freeware programming app?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 25 May 2019, 00:00

This whole thread shows you how. You need a cable, DIY or from woodygb here, and some easy to find software.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby broken_slinky » 27 May 2019, 20:13

Burgerman wrote:This whole thread shows you how. You need a cable, DIY or from woodygb here, and some easy to find software.


Made up the cable using the TTL-232R-3V3 and a Neutrik connector on the other end. The 33k resistor coming off VCC and the 1N4148 coming off the TX worked perfectly. Tried a few uploads and downloads and had zero comm. issues. The entire cable length is less than 2' so that helps reduce the chance of noise, line loss, etc...
Was able to download the original parameters before making any adjustments. Looks like they had set it for 1 profile speed. Max forward and reverse speed was set to 5%. The acc and turn acc were set to 15% and the dec and turn dec were set to 50.
I played with the parameters and was able to get it functioning a lot better. As much as I'd like to leave the unit programmed with values at 100%, I'm afraid it's too much for a woman in her mid-90s, 100lbs soaking wet that drives this just inside a retirement home. She seemed comfortable learning slow, medium and fast so I settled on 3 speed profiles. The fastest being a steady walking pace and the slowest allowing her to easily maneuver around furniture and through doorways. I also shut off the lock-out function.
Thanks to woodygb for the cable information and link and Burgerman for this fantastic wealth of information all at our fingertips. My Grandma and I are very appreciative.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby ex-Gooserider » 28 May 2019, 01:47

Sounds like you got things working much better, and I agree you probably don't want to have grandma driving like BM.... :o :lol:

However there is a big difference between turn SPEED and Turn ACCELERATION...

Turn SPEED limits how FAST you can turn - and I don't believe any of us have that set to max, as at it's fastest you would have trouble staying in the chair, or keeping your hands and feet on the rests... It is something you set at whatever the fastest you feel comfortable / safe turning at. Probably pretty low for her...

Turn ACCELERATION basically sets how fast the chair reaches the speed that is set by the joystick position - which boils down to how precisely the chair 'follows' the stick movement - the result of it being set low is 'mushy' controls with slow response - which is something that nobody really likes... Setting it to 100 does NOT in itself make the chair turn faster, instead it just gives 'crisper' more precise response to the joystick.... I've never really seen a good reason to set it to anything LESS than the highest value the programming allows....

However turning the acceleration up may make the chair enough more responsive that you will want to turn the SPEED down a bit.

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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby evigh » 12 Jun 2019, 16:20

Hi, Found this thread when I was looking for a way to make my friends mobility scooter go a bit faster.
Im also changing motor, batteries to lifepo4, and tires.
I normally program and build batteries to golf carts.
But I cannot find the software for the s-drive controller.

I was offered to buy the hand programmer, but since I already build my own cables for the curtis controllers it seems like a waste of good money.
Can anyone link me the software?

Also does it work in the same way the curtis software works? With different access levels and reg keys?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 12 Jun 2019, 17:01

You cannot make the scooter faster by programming...UNLESS it is already programmed slower.

Software is available as are the cable build pics.

NOTE:- The Curtis cable is NOT suitable to plug straight into the S-drives Molex programming port.

Different access levels..YES ..but not via the registry.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 12 Jun 2019, 17:22

I PMd him a link.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby evigh » 13 Jun 2019, 23:20

Ok. So I cannot make it go faster with software. It is limited to 11km/h. Wich is really slow.

I guess i program the cable with right hex code and serialnumber?

How to make it go faster?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 14 Jun 2019, 05:06

Higher voltage battery meaning different controller. Lower impedance motors. Taller gearing, which increases load, amps, decreases torque and range.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby evigh » 15 Jun 2019, 20:29

Ok, but it is limited to 11 km/h right now.. I guess it is turned down right now,, what is the max speed this controller can make?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby evigh » 15 Jun 2019, 20:30

I am gonna change motor to a 1500 watt one. and also the battery.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 16 Jun 2019, 00:51

If you fit higher watt motors it may go slower. Or faster.
Motor watts is an average max power level that can be sustained without overheating. It is not a measure of motor power output. It easily possible that a 1200 watt motor is much more powerful than a 1500 watt motor.

What you need is a little maths.
You need to know motor stall current. At a given voltage. That allows you to see which is the most powerful.

If you change the battery to 36V you will go 50% faster. But will require a different controller too.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 16 Jun 2019, 09:57

evigh wrote:Ok. So I cannot make it go faster with software. It is limited to 11km/h. Wich is really slow.

I guess i program the cable with right hex code and serialnumber?



The PGDT programming cable requires NO SERIAL NUMBER OR HEX CODE....just the addition of a resistor and diode.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby expresso » 19 Jun 2019, 15:34

https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Prod ... or-Control

This JS setup can be programmed with the same program for the Pilot Plus software ? not the Rnet with the dongle ?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 19 Jun 2019, 19:30

I'm fairly sure that the answer is ..Yes ..NO dongle required.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby expresso » 19 Jun 2019, 20:44

it would be the same software as the Pilot plus models - which means no options to adjust voltage ?

if i a Chair comes with tilt as the only power feature - - how hard can it be to swap out the VR2 90A PM etc, and replace with Rnet 120 - i am thinking ahead a bit - since i may end up with the VR2 90A model on my next chair - if i do - i may just leave it alone anyway not to bother - but just to know how easy or hard it will be - then programming the tilt feature etc, till now i never programmed from scratch - just adjusted from a Rnet 120A system already
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jun 2019, 21:07

if i a Chair comes with tilt as the only power feature - - how hard can it be to swap out the VR2 90A PM etc, and replace with Rnet 120 - i am thinking ahead a bit - since i may end up with the VR2 90A model on my next chair - if i do - i may just leave it alone anyway not to bother - but just to know how easy or hard it will be - then programming the tilt feature etc, till now i never programmed from scratch - just adjusted from a Rnet 120A system already


Physical swap, simple plug and play.
You may need to add a ISM module.
Programming? Well that depends. Its easy. If you understand what you are doing. And like everything in life very hard if you dont. That however is HOW you learn. And of course if you dont understand, RTFM. :D

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/program ... 981-14.pdf

And all will be rvealed!
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby expresso » 19 Jun 2019, 21:34

i have whats needed - all but the cables - i got them as a spare set for my current chair that is already Rnet 120 - thats an easy swap - but going from VR2 to Rnet 120 - then reprogram - i never done that - i would wonder if i just used one of my settings file from my current chair - even though it has seat lift etc, but maybe not since tilt only and it will come from sunrise this way - i have to see when time is here and think about it -

just good to know a bit ahead of time in case - have options - i most likely leave it and use it as i get it for some time and if i feel i am lacking something - then i may consider it - i just didnt realize it was not the same programming as the Rnet120 and dosnt have any option for motor volts - i assumed it was the same programming with the dongle -
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