PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 13 Aug 2019, 14:16

The only thing that should happen if you set max volts higher than the actual battery volts is that it will go faster downhill.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Scooterman » 13 Aug 2019, 14:24

I did wonder that.

Also I don’t know how the electronics work, but can the controller output more volts than it’s input through some electronic jiggery pokery? I.E. If set to output 42v can it deliver 42v to motor with only a 24v ish supply? When riding on the flat?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 13 Aug 2019, 14:40

Also I don’t know how the electronics work, but can the controller output more volts than it’s input through some electronic jiggery pokery? I.E. If set to output 42v can it deliver 42v to motor with only a 24v ish supply? When riding on the flat?


No. It can only deliver the battery power (voltage). CHOPPED UP to control speed.

As in on/off at approx 16 to 20 thousand times per second.

If the battery voltage is 24V is turned ON for 25% of the time. And OFF for 75 percent of the time, then the AVERAGE battery voltage sent to the motor will be 6V. And you will travel at 25% of the maximum speed.

Read that a few times till you get it... On/Off thousands of times per second.

With a 3 volt battery:
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Scooterman » 13 Aug 2019, 18:05

Burgerman wrote:Read that a few times till you get it... On/Off thousands of times per second.


I get it!

The faster the voltage is switched on and off, the smoother the (reduced) voltage output is. And the amount the output voltage is reduced by is determined by the pulse/width ratio :dance

Good explanation and diagrams BM :thumbup:
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Irving » 13 Aug 2019, 18:28

Yep, PWM is one of those simple ideas that gets everywhere now. It's the basic mechanism behind virtually every power supply, motor controller (brushed or brushless DC and AC), lamp dimmer, even some high-power audio amplifiers, solar power converters, single phase -> 3 phase inverters, etc etc.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Scooterman » 13 Aug 2019, 20:49

Irving wrote:Yep, PWM is one of those simple ideas that gets everywhere now. It's the basic mechanism behind virtually every power supply, motor controller (brushed or brushless DC and AC), lamp dimmer, even some high-power audio amplifiers, solar power converters, single phase -> 3 phase inverters, etc etc.

:thumbup:
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Scooterman » 14 Aug 2019, 09:03

10.7 after I took this photo :shock:

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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby ex-Gooserider » 20 Aug 2019, 03:26

Scooterman wrote:I did wonder that.

Also I don’t know how the electronics work, but can the controller output more volts than it’s input through some electronic jiggery pokery? I.E. If set to output 42v can it deliver 42v to motor with only a 24v ish supply? When riding on the flat?


NOT while being driven by the battery, as in riding on the flat... However every electric motor is also a generator if it is being spun by outside force, so if you are rolling down a steep hill, the motor can and will produce more voltage than the batteries - Some of the excess the controller will feed back to the batteries as regenerative power but after a certain point it will start wasting the extra power as heat - unless rolling down a VERY steep and long slope it doesn't happen often...

Purely speculating here, :ugeek: but I wonder if that voltage setting might also control how / what voltage the controller will feed BACK to the batteries in a regenerative situation? If so, you might not want to set the value above the maximum rated charge voltage for the pack to keep it from getting overvolted.... Just guessing, but I probably wouldn't set it higher.....

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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 20 Aug 2019, 07:14

Yes. It does. At any time the motor volts is higher than the battery volts, (inc pulsewith multiplication) you get braking and regen. Happens at 1mph if throttle is reduced and the overun slows the chair in your kitchen. Or if motor voltage exceeds battery voltage at 100% pulsewidth downhill no matter what the voltage is set to above battery voltage.

Setting higher like 30V will allow the scooter to go faster downhill before regen (braking) occurs. But setting to 40 wont change anything. But it will occur anyway without educing pulsewidth ig generated voltage exceeds battery voltage. Even at 100% pulsewidth. It wants to be set to a sensible figure or you may over rev the motors if its steep enough. But, I already use 24V motors at 45V and the revs dont hurt them.. So all you loose is a little regeneration as you go downhill. Traded for more speed... If you set above 28.8V (3.6V per cell) on a lithium battery you could potentially exceed the battery safe volts if you went down everest on a full battery!

If set to 100V you will still get regeneration as soon as motor generated volts exceed battery volts. You cant really avoid it.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby stefanturbo » 25 Oct 2019, 12:06

With PGDT each Profile has 5 different speeds, but with wheelchairs from Pride Mobility each profile has 1 speed. Is it possible with PGDT to have a Profile with one speed?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 25 Oct 2019, 12:27

stefanturbo wrote:With PGDT each Profile has 5 different speeds, but with wheelchairs from Pride Mobility each profile has 1 speed. Is it possible with PGDT to have a Profile with one speed?

Yes...select 0 profiles with the programming software and you get just ONE profile ...or you can have 5 profiles with the same speed if you want...the programming software lets you choose.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby stefanturbo » 25 Oct 2019, 13:54

woodygb wrote:
stefanturbo wrote:With PGDT each Profile has 5 different speeds, but with wheelchairs from Pride Mobility each profile has 1 speed. Is it possible with PGDT to have a Profile with one speed?

Yes...select 0 profiles with the programming software and you get just ONE profile ...or you can have 5 profiles with the same speed if you want...the programming software lets you choose.


I mean to have 5 profiles with 5 different speeds. No I have 5 profiles, each profile has 5 different speeds. Now I want to kown of its possible to have 5 profiles, and each profile to have 1 speed,. But 5 profiles with each profile with 5 the same speeds.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 25 Oct 2019, 23:51

You are better off with one profile and 5 speeds.
But yes you could set the minimum speeds the same as the max speeds I suppose.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby rover220 » 26 Oct 2019, 07:50

can turn off speed adjust in rnet to make it purely profile based.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby stefanturbo » 26 Oct 2019, 10:08

rover220 wrote:can turn off speed adjust in rnet to make it purely profile based.


How can I program that? Set the max speed and min speed the same?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 26 Oct 2019, 11:06

Yes, same with min max turn acc, dec, turn speeds, etc. So no adjustment.

Seems a silly way to configure it to me. I have 1 profile. Set for indoors, all settings on speed 1, and everything set for outdoors on speed 5. no profiles.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby stefanturbo » 26 Oct 2019, 11:44

Burgerman wrote:Yes, same with min max turn acc, dec, turn speeds, etc. So no adjustment.

Seems a silly way to configure it to me. I have 1 profile. Set for indoors, all settings on speed 1, and everything set for outdoors on speed 5. no profiles.


Because I drive my wheelchair with a Mo-vis micro-joystick(verry low force joystick) I push my joystick to the end of the reach to drive my chair. For me its better to have 3 profiles, Profile 1 for indoors, Profile 2 for indoors and outdoors, Profile 3 for Outdoors.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 26 Oct 2019, 12:10

Then you can set all MINIMUM settings under speed tab, to the same as max setting. And have no proportional speeds, will work like a switch. But thats how you are using your joystick. Minimum settings refer to either small stick position movement or the lowest speed setting.

And under CONTROLS>GLOBAL>SPEED ADJUST you set to NO. So no adjustment to speed allowed on joystick. You may prefer to ONLY do this. And maintain a proportional joystick.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby stefanturbo » 26 Oct 2019, 15:31

Burgerman wrote:Then you can set all MINIMUM settings under speed tab, to the same as max setting. And have no proportional speeds, will work like a switch. But thats how you are using your joystick. Minimum settings refer to either small stick position movement or the lowest speed setting.

And under CONTROLS>GLOBAL>SPEED ADJUST you set to NO. So no adjustment to speed allowed on joystick. You may prefer to ONLY do this. And maintain a proportional joystick.


Thanks. Yeah for me is it better to maintain a proportional joystick. So when I set speed adjust to no, it disable the speed adjust button on the hand control and it also disables the different speeds in the profiles? I use a Omni.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 26 Oct 2019, 19:35

Hopefully, never tried it...
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Scooterman » 10 Nov 2019, 11:32

I don't need a new mob scooter at the moment but I found my next one. It's the Pride Ranger 2019, (Wrangler in the USA). It's a beast of scooter, twin motors, mono shock rear suspension, 14.5" tubeless tyres, 11mph US version. Too big for shopping but great for road trips in the summer to parks, lakes, and woods if accessible. But I'd have to fit a basket to the front. The mounting points are there but Pride don't provide a basket wtf? Silly Pride mobiltiy tut tut.

SO... My question is I'm guessing the identical UK ranger's top speed will be restricted in the controller programming, just like my sunrise scooter was.

Can we access/change Pride controller settings?

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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 10 Nov 2019, 11:52

The answer is yes, if they are stupid, because that wastes range and torque, and eats batteries faster. So they SHOULD use shorter gearing instead for an 8mph one. With many advantages. So the answer is, we cant know!
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Scooterman » 10 Nov 2019, 18:24

So it's a qualified yes? We have the technology to rebuild it Jim (change controller parameters)

And you mean two motors eat batteries faster than one :thumbup:
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 10 Nov 2019, 23:41

No. I mean if the thing has fast motors, and is PROGRAMMED to go 8mph it will have less torque, less range than if the motors were shorter geared.

So that if it had shorter gearing instead, 100% speed was 8mph. So in the later case you would gain 30% range, batteries would last twice as long. And it would perform better on ramps and hills. But it couldnt be programmed to go faster.

So which of the 2 is it?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Scooterman » 11 Nov 2019, 10:48

I see what you mean and wouldn't know how to tell the difference. I suppose it would be worth googling photos of Wrangler and Ranger replacement motors to see if gear ratio is listed on motor details, and whether there's a difference. But it's not been on the market for long so not much info online :problem: .

But I would be reasonably confident it's done in the programming. That's what was done with my Sunrise scooter.

But I'm not planning on buying one for the foreseeable anyway, just lusting after one :admirer
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Swan T.W. » 11 Nov 2019, 17:14

Are the rims tubeless?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby stefanturbo » 22 Nov 2019, 11:02

On ebay I bought a Rnet CJSM2 joystick mudule. It comes off a Permobil wheelchair. When the CJSM2 boots up you see a Permobil logo is there way to change it.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 22 Nov 2019, 11:35

No.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby rover220 » 22 Nov 2019, 13:22

stefanturbo wrote:On ebay I bought a Rnet CJSM2 joystick mudule. It comes off a Permobil wheelchair. When the CJSM2 boots up you see a Permobil logo is there way to change it.


afraid not, even pgdt wont change it.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 22 Nov 2019, 14:00

I have 3 sunrise ones, inc the one on my salsa chair, and a permobil. Since it only displays for a short time on boot, why does it matter? It doesent ffect anything else as far as I know.
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