Advice re the electrics on Escaper PWR SE chair please?

[Markup]

Hi
I wonder if there is a current or past user of the Escape PWR SE electric wheel chair who could offer me a little advice or help please?

The chair is functioning well in every way except the raise and lower function of the seat which is controlled from a joypad type interface located forward of the left arm rest of the chair. Can any one point me to an istruction manual or help me out here as I should imagine that with the chair behaving well in every other way it might be a minor fault that I can manage myself.

When putting out my bin bag this morning, I had a conversation with my neighbour whose husband is totally dependant on the chair for moving around both outside and in the home. At present he is finding it difficult with toilet visits etc because the thing will not move up or down. It is a real struggle for his wife as she cant weigh more than 6 stone wet and will not call out the tech she called for another issue some months ago as he charged her 60 pound just to visit, when in fact there was nothing at all wrong with the chair - just a misunderstanding in the operation of it.

Its made me bloody furious to be honest.

I am not at all shy or ignorant of tech machinery etc so if I can get some solid advice from anyone with any pointers for me, I will definitely try to effect any repairs myself.

Heres hoping and have a great day all!
Mark

[woodygb]

I'd suggest ..if all else fails ..simply bypassing the joystick and using a common or garden toggle switch.

I'll have a quick search online for a manual.

[woodygb]

Not a lot online and I'd bet it's a rebadged summat or other...possibly a Chinese import.

Is the raise / lower an addition?

Hmmmmmm......

This looks like a fold up chair..in which case it may not actually have the raise/lower function.

The Days Healthcare Escape PWR SE electric wheelchair can be disassembled in seconds so it can be loaded into the boot of your car with ease. You can take it with you wherever you go.




The Days Healthcare Escape PWR SE powerchair has a maximum user weight of 18
stone /115Kg and a maximum range of 13 miles.
· Penny and Giles VSI controller
· Punctureproof
tyres
· Alloy rear wheel
· Height adjustable antitippers
provide safety
· Stepless
height adjustable footplate as standard
· Cushioned upholstery

[LROBBINS]

Woody,

Markup said that the riser is controlled from a separate "joypad", not from the joystick. As it's not mentioned in the description either you or I found, it probably is an "add on". Whether that riser is completely separate from the P&G controller, or operates through it we have no way of knowing. That joypad might just work relays to send the actuator in one direction or the other.

Markup,

In the absence of any other information, the first thing to check is that all cables are properly plugged in. Even if they look plugged in, it sometimes pays to unplug and re-plug them to make sure contacts are "clean". The lift actuator probably has limit switches: either within the actuator, or somewhere else on the lift mechanism. If one of these has failed, or if something has gotten stuck in whatever actuates it, the lift will go in only one direction, but never come back. Check visually, and if you know how to use an ohmeter, check electrically. For example, disconnect the cable that goes from the actuator to whatever box controls it. If that cable has just two contacts, testing is pretty simple. Ohmeter in low resistance setting, look for continuity and a low resistance between the two contacts of the actuator cable. Then reverse the two test leads. Do you get the same low but not zero reading in both directions? If so, either there are no internal limit switches, or they are both in their correct, closed, state. If one direction reads infinite ohms and the other direction reads near 0, then one limit switch is open and the other closed. This is normal if the actuator is at its end-of-travel; it will prevent the actuator from continuing to push when at the end, but let it go in the other direction. If the actuator is in a middle position, they both should be closed; of one is open when the actuator is not at end of travel, there's a bad or blocked switch or a broken wire. If you get an infinite reading in both directions, there's an open circuit somewhere between that connector and the actuator or in one of the diodes that are usually put across the contacts of each limit switch to allow movement in the opposite direction when a switch opens.

If there are more than 2 contacts, the situation can be more complex - there may, for example, be external limit switches, or some fancy position sensor (though I doubt the latter on a chair of this sort).

If there are only 2 contacts, you can also test whether the actuator runs if directly connected to the batteries, and reverses when the polarity of the connection reverses. If the actuator itself works OK both up and down, and you can't find a fault in the wiring, there's probably a problem in the control box. If that "joypad" connects to a separate box or board and you can get a look at it, you may find that it just has relays similar to what you find in cars. It's not too hard to check whether a relay is dead, and if it is they shouldn't be too hard to find - even if they're 24 rather than 12V. If it's some microcomputer module, the simplest "fix" may be, as Woody suggests, to get rid of the control box and wire in a DPDT switch in its place (assuming the user can physically work such a switch).

If you are not comfortable working around electricity, do find someone who is. Someone who works on auto electrics should have no problem with the much simpler wiring of a wheelchair.

Ciao,
Lenny

[Markup]

Thanks for the assistance my friend, it is helpful.

The chair did have the raise lower operation as she says it was working two days ago. I dont want to unsettlew the old chap by having him hop in and out of the chair while I explore so I want to get as much info as possible to hand so that I can do everything I need - from initial examination to a hopeful final fix - all in one go.

One other thing I jotted down on my scrap of paper this morning was Motiontech Motors, which was on a sticker on the side of what looked like a cylindrical motor.

Thanks again mate and... anyone else? Please...?

[LROBBINS]

That cylindrical motor is the linear actuator. If the label has a model number, you might be able to google on the manufacturer and/or model number and get some useful information. The lift controller may even have come from the same source. Certainly if you can get mechanical drawings and electrical schematics trouble shooting will be lots easier.
Ciao,
Lenny

[Markup]

Hey Lenny!

Thank you, you have given me plenty of ways in which I can (try to) make myself useful.

I will fly back around there now and do the simpler checks and I am sure there is an ohmeter lying around here somewher.

I will take a picture of the controls as I may have given them the wrong moniker but I am sure the up and down feature is finger tip controlled just fo'rd of the motion joystick - sorry if I appear ignorant but I have never had cause to come into contact with a wheelchair, powered or otherwise, before.

I will go and see what I can do without disturbing the old boy too much...

[Markup]

That cylindrical motor is the linear actuator. If the label has a model number...
Ciao,
Lenny

On it now, thanks mate!!

[woodygb]

http://www.motiontech.com.tw/eng/index3.asp is a possible.

[Markup]

So sorry my friends, I hope I havent wasted your time.

What I took to mean lower and higher in terms of the height of the seat actually means low and high in terms of power/speed of the machine when in motion.

There is a low (I suppose ratio) and a high and the machine will only operate on high, whereas around the house only the low ratio is suitable. When the button for low power is pressed nothing will happen.

Again, I am very sorry for what was a wild goose chase, but once again can anybody advise me now that I know what the genuine problem is please?

I am just off to find one of the free photo hosting services and will post links to some images I have taken of the undercarriage and connections etc if you would be kind enough to have a look .

Cheers...
Mark

[woodygb]

The problem IMO will be be in the joystick.

The motors are supplied with Pulse Width Modulation from the controller ...PWM ..essentially it cuts the battery voltage into slices and gives a slice every 1/1000th ish of a second ... the duration or width of this slice determines the motor speed...the joystick tells the controller how much PWM to give.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation

[woodygb]

This is the VSI ..which has the controller integrated into the joystick pod.

http://www.pgdt.com/pdf/vsi.pdf

[Markup]

Hmmm, I'm not sure I like the sound of the PWM option woodygb, it sounds very complicated. Unless it turns out to be the case that it is the whole joystick connector which might be picked up on somewhere like ebay. Everything looked pretty straightforward with the wiring when I had a look and it appears that everything just joins everything else with plug connectors.

I have taken these pictures of the chair, would you have a look please and let me know if by seeing the pad that you can let me know where to start.

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Markup0782/wchair_1.jpg

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Markup0782/wchair_1.jpg

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Markup0782/wchair_1.jpg

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Markup0782/wchair_1.jpg

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Markup0782/wchair_1.jpg

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s626/Markup0782/wchair_1.jpg

Your help is really appreciated.

[woodygb]

They're ALL the same and show the drive motor.

http://www.motiontech.com.tw/eng/inquir ... asp?nid=44

There will be nothing wrong with the motors.

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s62 ... hair_2.jpg
VSI

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s62 ... hair_3.jpg
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s62 ... hair_4.jpg
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s62 ... hair_5.jpg
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s62 ... hair_6.jpg

[woodygb]

I picked the wrong motor ..it's more like.

http://www.motiontech.com.tw/eng/inquir ... asp?nid=38

[Markup]

Sorry woodygb, I'm not with you. Do you mean all control pads are the same?

Would you say I might be doing the right thing to take of the controller and take it somewher to have it checked over?

I'm afraid I am not at all familiar with these powered chairs. Were it my own I would have probably dismantled it in a search for a cure by now but as it is the only way the old boy who lives by me has of getting around I am very wary of attempting something that has the potential to go wrong... although like I say, if I can get the right of advice I am comfortable with having a go myself.

[Markup]

I picked the wrong motor ..it's more like.

http://www.motiontech.com.tw/eng/inquir ... asp?nid=38

Yes that looks familiar from what was on the chair... do you think that one of these pair malfunctioning would kill low speed whilst nlot affecting high speed?

[Burgerman]

No. The motors will be fine. And one faulty motor would both make you go in circles and produce an error code. If anything it is probably a weak powered chair and programmed badly or very old batteries. Try it in low speed without an occupant.

[woodygb]

Sorry woodygb, I'm not with you. Do you mean all control pads are the same?

NO ..The picture links that you posted are ALL THE SAME.

Hence I corrected them for you in the next post.

[woodygb]

I think that a proper and exact description of the problem is in order...

Won't go fast / slow/steer properly ... ..is the indoor slow button not working? etc etc

Give the board a little more to work on.

Both BM and I have said it isn't the motors .

[ex-Gooserider]

Sounds to me like what you need to do before getting to far into troubleshooting, is to get a really good demo of the chair from the user and / or his wife, with pictures of all the controls and what is / is not working right... Also see if they have any manuals for the chair and see if they help any.

It doesn't sound like anything is horribly wrong, but it seems to me like right now there is a lot of confusion about exactly WHAT the problem is, and until we know exactly what's wrong, it's hard to know what to suggest in the way of fixes. However I would also say that there is nothing wrong with what Lenny suggested as a general procedure, both for chairs and most any other sort of electronic gizmos...

ex-Gooserider

[Markup]

Thanks Burgerman, I just went round there to try to get a bit of a test going with the machine but all the lights were off and they are quite eldely so didnt want to be knocking in the dark to be honest. I will go round first thing tomorrow

Sorry woodygb, I'm not with you. Do you mean all control pads are the same?

NO ..The picture links that you posted are ALL THE SAME.

Hence I corrected them for you in the next post.

Oh of course, yes sorry me and my cut and paste skills leave a lot to be desired and I become just about useless at around medication time .

Theres not a lot, apart from doing as much reading as I can between now and morning, I can do but if I come back with the results of the test I'm hoping you can continue to help me out.

I'm so appreciative,
Mark

[Fulliautomatix]

"Indoor slow button not working"
Switch/contact or dry joint.

[LROBBINS]

I think that what Burgerman meant by suggesting checking the batteries is that on high speed they may have enough "oomph" left to move the chair, but on low speed with high resistance because of age or maltreatment the motors may not generate enough torque to move the chair. So, one question of interest is whether when you push the "low" button the controller does change its state, but the chair won't move, or whether it remains in high speed.

A note about the controllers. The wiring of the chair is simple, but that's because the controllers are actually little computers that hide all the complexity. Unless you have programming tools for the particular controller, the most you can really do is check that all the connectors are good, that no cable is disconnected or has been pinched, etc.

Ciao,
Lenny