Backup power on power recliner

Power wheelchair board for REAL info!

POWERCHAIR MENU! www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair-stuff.htm

Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 05 Nov 2014, 02:32

My living room chair is an "eldery assist" power lift / power down recliner. I had an incident the other night where I dropped something in the middle of the night... and tripped the switch in the surge/power strip on the floor. I wrenched my back trying to get out of the fully reclined chair where I'd been sleeping. So I've been suffering. In the short term, I moved the ()*^%$# strip so the switch would be harder to accidentally trip... but there are other possible causes of power failure... like actual power failures.
I didn't (probably should have) gotten other family members up to rescue me. I keep my walker within reach & cell carrier zip tied to it. Also a couple of Harbor Freight lights. If I end up on the floor, the plan is to tip the walker over to get to the phone. But I didn't.
The chair plugs into line current (USA ~120VAC) but the box in the cord indicates output 29VDC. There is a "hatch for (2) NM1604 9V backup batteries. It seems that the backup batteries are good for a single "rescue" before they need replacing. Actually it seems like they are "dead" every time but I suspect they are barely adequate at best.

Ideas, gentlemen & ladies?
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby robnnorthaustin » 05 Nov 2014, 03:30

Maybe move the switch and surge/power strip behind the chair? A powersupply consisting of a battery, charger and Dc to DC converter wouldn't be hard to put together but for something that could be solved by configuring the power strip to a better place seems to be the better call to me, unless you are looking for a reason to experiment.
robnnorthaustin
 
Posts: 348
Joined: 25 Dec 2012, 21:36
Location: Austin, Tx

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Armand » 05 Nov 2014, 03:39

I have a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) like those used for a home computer. This would replace your surge protector. If power fails is can operate the recliner. I also have one for the bed for the same reason. I don't recall the size I have but it is a medium size UPS. The thing plugs into the wall outlet and keeps the internal battery charged. If power fails then you can run from it. You can get these anyplace that sells computer gear or online at a variety of places, including eBay.
Armand
 
Posts: 95
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 05:57
Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 05 Nov 2014, 04:47

I did move the switch already but that's no protection against a tree that takes down the wires in the street... I live in a heavily wooded area.
I think the built in backup is just too small... might be a better match with (3) 9V batteries in stead of 2, but that's how it's made. Forget the silly disposable batteries.
I do indeed think a Uninterruptable Power Supply is the easiest solution. The old ones were noisy but I imagine the silid state units today would be quiet. I wasn't aware of the lower cost units but I'm seeing them now. I'll check the wattage required. Basically the chair only needs a couple of minutes of power to get me right side up again.
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Burgerman » 05 Nov 2014, 11:46

Since I now have 10 x 250w solar panels, and a grid tie inverter that puts excess generated power back into the grid, I now want to get one of these.

http://www.brightgreenenergy.co.uk/vict ... argers.asp

These allow you to keep all your old wheelchair batteries and connect them up for storage of power. And seamlessly run your house on them if there's a power cut.

It also allows the solar system or wind power to run the house, then charge the batteries for use at night using as little grid power as humanly possible. In other words it takes any solar power you would have not used and instead of sending this to the grid it puts it into your batteries to use at night.

And the Victron is intelligent. It integrates, generators, wind, solar, batteries in the most £££ efficient way possible. Seamlessly. It figures all this out for you. And is extremely programmable and configurable too should you want.

As yet I cant afford it. But I cant afford not to either. So its on the list.

So it safeguards you against power outages, but saves you money too.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65051
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Burgerman » 05 Nov 2014, 11:48

And, fit Andersons to everything! Your chair can run a dc bed or whatever directly. And / or a 240v inverter for other stuff.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65051
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 05 Nov 2014, 15:58

I guess if the power outage lasted for long, I'm miss the power recliner but I'd not put it all the way back. My fear is to be left in a position I couldn't get myself outof. I'd hate to have to call the Fire Brigade TO SET ME uprght again.
A friend has a whole house backup generator that runs off his propane. The last several days storm outage he was surprised by how much propane it used... uncertain the level of propane before the storm as it is used daily for cooking. I hope he doubled the size of his already large tank.
I need to get my big generator repaired... 6500W. I have a 1000W Honda suitcase generator we use for camping. We keep (& rotate) containers of gasoline in the barn for equipment. We add stabilizer to each tank when we get it home. (Which is why the big Generator needs service.)
I only need a spot solution & for this, a low cost Backup power unit is all I need. The power recliner chair draws 2A @29VDC also rated 2A @110VAC.
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Burgerman » 05 Nov 2014, 16:58

So in reality its about .6A AC.

I have 2 generators too. But the longest power outage I ever saw here was 1.5 hours. And a total of 4 in my lifetime. Doesn't mean it cant happen though.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65051
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 05 Nov 2014, 23:37

A couple of years ago, we were without line power for over a week. Fortunately the storm was in warm weather... we used the cooking & propane refridgerator in the camp trailer. Life in the country has always been like that.
My concern is the AC power devises I use daily. If I knew the power was out, I wouldn't sleep in a devise dependant on power to get back out of.
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 27 Jan 2015, 02:03

With a storm swirling around us... First couple of inches already on the ground... I've swapped out the 9v backup batteries & have a spare pair in the package. There's no way to really test the backup. As I type this, I'm thinking I can route the cord so I can reach the box where the backup mounts (so I can swap them in service if need be). I ran the lift chair all the way up & the motor is rated for 24Volts. I am thinking of converting it to Andersons or just wiring in a bigger power source outside the transformer box with backup door. It might be just the thing for a small rechargeable pack.
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Burgerman » 27 Jan 2015, 02:32

Snow? I hate it. But its never kept me out of the pub yet. Fortunately there's one about 1/4 mile away. And the off road all terrain tyres never let me down yet.

But best to get all your chairs, cars, generators, etc fuelled up, charged up, propane tanks full, food that keeps like cans and not rely on fridges. Although outside IS a fridge right now if you get stuck without power. I have an old 12v battery to power my leccy bed as a just in case too. Be prepared is my motto.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65051
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 27 Jan 2015, 03:13

Tunneling into the snow bank against the door to make a refridgerator is pretty standard... we have a cooler there already (to keep critters out of our food supply). Forecast is 24-36" of snow.

I recall one blizzard... my (then) GF had a small early Honda & a 4X4 Chevy pickup with a slide in camper parked side by side. It was impossible to tell which was parked where. To get out of the house, had to take the glass out of the storm door & shovel snow into the house to get out. Actually, that house is in the deep snow zone tonight too!

We have water buckets in the bath tub (for toilet flushing) if the power goes out we lose the 240V well pump. Water cistern from our re-enacting kitchen. Wood burning stove & 2 burner propane.

I did take get the cord up on my table next to me so I could change the batteries if I had too (though it's on my poor left side :( )
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Burgerman » 27 Jan 2015, 10:26

If it got that bad here I may be tempted to move south.

Forecast is 24-36" of snow.


That would keep me out of the pub! We had that much snow here once a few years ago. Once in my 54 years.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65051
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 27 Jan 2015, 15:58

It snowed lightly all day... got heavier & caught the evening commute. It was a blizzard with high winds & drifting snow by midnight. All states closed highways & bridges at midnight except for emegency workers. Bridges usafe because of the wind... snowing sideways. There's a lot of snow out there, blowing & drifting... the eye of the swirling storm isn't even by us yet. Wife's out plowing again with ATV to stay ahead of it. Supposed to snow hard all day & lighter into tomorrow. So far the power is still on, very happy!

This is a Powerful storm but when all is said & done, less than the Blizzard of 1978. http://www.blizzardof78.org/ http://www.providencejournal.com/news/c ... -of-78.ece
The snow totals away from the airport site were double he "Official" snow fall.

So we are hunkered down... mid way through the storm.
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby rustyjames » 27 Jan 2015, 18:42

The "experts" were calling for up to 2' of snow here, the Big One, of historical proportions :o There's about 3" out there :lol: but I'm not going to complain!
rustyjames
 
Posts: 927
Joined: 12 Dec 2011, 17:59
Location: Central New Jersey, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 27 Jan 2015, 18:57

My yard 16" outside this morning & the storm's not past Nantucket yet... seem to be in a lull right now, occasional white outs with snow blowing off the roofs (house, barn). Others got twice this already. Still have power. I feel blessed.
RJ, I can send you some!
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby rustyjames » 27 Jan 2015, 19:21

Thank You, but I'll pass! Done with snow, don't miss it even a little!
rustyjames
 
Posts: 927
Joined: 12 Dec 2011, 17:59
Location: Central New Jersey, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Sully » 28 Jan 2015, 20:38

That is why I moved to North Carolina #1 reason at least. I lived and was Highway Supt (a part of my responsibilities) in Both NH and Upstate New York at the Canadian border for 20 or so years some of those storms were beauties. It was nice (I guess) to have lived those experiences, but once was enough. Each storm was an adventure of its own !!!!! I do not envy y'all.
Sully
 
Posts: 2223
Joined: 04 Dec 2010, 18:44
Location: Hampstead, North Carolina, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 16 Jul 2015, 00:12

Power was out the other morning... I had my power recliner all the way back, taking a nap. The (2) 9V "backup batteries" barely got it to level with wife helping. I swear the thing kills the backup batteries before you ever need them... SO I want to put an UPS (Uninteruptable Power Supply) on it. It should only take power when motion is asked for. WE decided it took .6A @120V ac.

Any suggestions for US available products. It seems the lowest level has many problems but what is the minimum step up I need.

PS an alternative would be to open the transformer & attach a hobby pack with a SWITCH to engage if needed.
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Burgerman » 16 Jul 2015, 00:32

Fit an anderson. Connect it to the 2 you have hopefully installed on your chair already. Now it works.

EVERYTHING I have that matters can be connected to inverters, for 240V, or directly for 12 or 24v power, including my electric bed, entire house, tools, vehicles for emergency charginhg of chairs or actually starting one if dead etc.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65051
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby LROBBINS » 16 Jul 2015, 01:11

A 9V alkaline battery (i.e. common transistor radio size) has 565 mAH capacity when new and that declines with age even if never used. A 1.5V AA alkaline battery has 2700 mAH capacity - almost 5 times as much. Connect 5 of them in series (you can solder wires between them) and you'll have more than twice the backup power of the two 9V batteries (and the five of them will cost less than one 9V). Ciao, Lenny
LROBBINS
 
Posts: 5543
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 09:36
Location: Siena, Italy

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Burgerman » 16 Jul 2015, 11:04

Or fit a rechargeable 9v. And feed the battery indefinitely with just a tiny 1 to 2 mA via a high value resistor, connected to the power supply driving the device, from wherever it enters.

Its dc supply will likely be higher voltage than the 9v battery so will work fine.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65051
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 16 Jul 2015, 16:43

This is what I needed, thinking outside the box. Since the power supply output is marked "29V DC" & the motor is marked "24V DC"... (2) 9V Batteries are already low amps AND low volts to start with.
How much do I need to worry about Volts?

The power supply has a little compartment with room for the (2) 9V "transistor batteries". So what ever I do will be external. I have not opened the case of the power supply (presumeably a transformer / recifier from 120 V AC to "29 V DC" but we all know no load volts is not the same as Volts under load. I had a box of wall warts from my days at the electronics shop & it was interesting to test the no load VS the stated output IF it had a stated output).

I'm not understanding why the INSTALLED 9V batterys decay so much when "unused". I know transistor radios take little power but heck I've had transistor radios in storage for a couple of years & the Brand Name batteries still work. (I don't buy house brand batteries anymore... too many have leaked & ruined devises.)

IF the line power goes out... What keeps the batteries from back feeding power back into the line? Sucking the life out of the batteries before I try to "rescue" myself. I think I need to explore the power supply wiring.
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby LROBBINS » 16 Jul 2015, 19:56

9V batteries are about the lowest capacity per gram of any common batteries - they're just essentially a stack of button cells. Since they're little used anymore they also have not had the slow but steady improvement that sizes like AAA and AA have had. AA is just the opposite; it has the highest capacity per gram of common,non-Lithium, primary batteries. Ciao, Lenny
LROBBINS
 
Posts: 5543
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 09:36
Location: Siena, Italy

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 17 Jul 2015, 01:27

One thought I had was there might have been various power interuptions when I wasn't in the recliner chair... but if energizing the curcuits takes power (with or without load) then that might explain discharged batteries.
I've been assuming the 9V batteries are in a series... I could devise battery holders that allow use of external cells of greater capacity... and connect it to the 9V leads... but include a manual switch to activate it. The line cord plugs into the power supply as does the output with a I -- mini connection.
I opened the case today but It's not something that's easy to mess with.
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Burgerman » 17 Jul 2015, 01:53

29V DC?

18 to 30 volts will work it. And a few low Amps. Down and up as required. A couple of rechargeable lead batteries, even a couple of 9.6V AA rechargeable packs. to give 18 volts will work the bed/chair a good few times. Plug it in where the wall wart goes...

http://www.overlander.co.uk/batteries-2 ... -pack.html 2 of these... In series.

After FIVE years these will still be 70 percent charged, and will work the chair/bed.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65051
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 18 Jul 2015, 14:17

I think we are on the same page but that site doesn't like my computer settings, so I couldn't see the exact packs you are referancing. I could not find what I wanted with searching but am getting closer by inserting RC into the search engine.
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Burgerman » 18 Jul 2015, 14:29

Image

2 of these...

Panasonic Eneloop 2000mAh AA 9.6v Transmitter TX Square Zap Pack




Panasonic Eneloop 2000mAh NiMH Batteries are the top choice for high capacity, high drain rechargeable cells. With a retention rate of up to 70% over 5 years, and an ultra-long life of up to 2100 cycles the Panasonic Eneloop 2000 hold the same qualities as the ever popular Sanyo Eneloop 2000 Brand.



Panasonic Eneloop 2000 batteries can be charged with standard NiMH/NiCd chargers. We recommend a standard charge of 200mA for 12 hours or a fast charge at 2Ah for 1.2 hours.



Panasonic Eneloop 2000mAh Battery Packs Feature;



• Supplied fully charged, ready to use

• Conforms to the Green Certificate System

• New generation Eneloop Cells

• Low Self Discharge - 65-70% retention after 5 years

• Packs Constructed using Capacitor Discharge welding

• High Quality, multi-strand silicone wire

• JR Universal RX / TX Lead

• Constructed to Overlander's high standards in the UK by trained operatives
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65051
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby flagman1776 » 19 Jul 2015, 16:20

Thanks! I am able to search these items on US sites... I just needed the item.
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Backup power on power recliner

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jul 2015, 16:28

Eneloop are 2000 or 2450mah cells, that are the same as common nickel metal hydride cells, with 2 differences.

1. very low self discharge. So when you need them they are still charged.
2. pretty low impedance, so work well for most things.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65051
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Next

Return to Everything Powerchair

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: woodygb and 81 guests

 

  eXTReMe Tracker