RoboteQ GB Project

[Burgerman]

I have a set of motors (storm3) if you want some.
And a full control system, bus cables etc. And a programmer...
And a complete unloved chair that runs well (storm3) should anyone want or be interested. Collection only I think...

[Irving]

I wonder if there are more in the latest version that are installed on the chair John had for a while, the last time I looked I couldn't find a part number for them to find out how much they would rush you for a pair I bet they'd be pricey.

Seems to be 5 versions of GB motors

SP1433561 (lh) SP1433562 (RH) - Storm 3
SP1559356 (lh) SP1559359 (RH) - Storm 4
SP1152666 (lh) SP1152665 (RH) - TDX pre 29/6/15
SP1191490 (lh) SP2191489 (RH) - TDX post 29/6/15
There was an earlier version for Storm 2G/Arrow/Torque chairs c 1998/9 which had a hub rather than the 8" rim. I can't find a part # for them, but I doubt you'd want them anyway.

Allegedly the Storm4 have more torque than the Storm3.

The difference between the TDX motors is the later ones have a slightly wider rim increasing chair width by 0.75".
GB motors were options on TDX - TDX4 & standard on TDX5

[Burgerman]

Allegedly the Storm4 have more torque than the Storm3.

And about 1/3rd that of a typical 4 pole AT STALL and around the same once rolling slowly. Strange behaviour. I measured 190A on a battery cable repeatedly when doing a zero turn with an empty chair. It lasts around 1 second, then the current and the torque fall away to around a fifth of that. And the motor gets very warm if you try to go left/right indoors, then it stops moving for 20 minutes...

Its a terrible solution. It needs gearing. Because in an attempt to get some level of starting torque they literally murder the batteries. In the same circumstances a typical 20A of current is seen on a geared brushed chair.

On a run, the current is under 2.5A with both motors flat out! The exact opposite. Super efficient once rolling.

[Irving]

Allegedly the Storm4 have more torque than the Storm3.

And about 1/3rd that of a typical 4 pole AT STALL and around the same once rolling slowly. StraNge behaviour. I measured 190A on a battery cable repeatedly when doing a zero turn with an empty chair. It lasts around 1 second, then the current and the torque fall away to aroung 1 fifth of that. And the motor gets very warm if you try to go left/right.

Its a terrible solution. It needs gearing. Because in an attempt to get some level of starting torque they literally murder the batteries. In the same circumstances a typical 20A of current is seen on a geared brushed chair.

On a run, the current is under 2.5A with both motors flat out! The exact opposite. Super efficient once rolling.

It would be interesting to measure/characterise a GB motor.

I agree about gearing. Everything I've read suggests it's the way to go. A good helical planetary gearbox would be >95% efficient and even a 3:1 reduction would give cogging and torque benefits.

[stevelawiw]

I only know of 3 different types of GB Motors the original that Shirley loves because it has a slightly higher top speed, the second which are the ones I know and love and the new ones that haven't appeared yet on the second hand market unless you buy a whole chair for about three grand +

[Burgerman]

Theres another. Some have a deeper/shallower wheel rim, and the position of the ridge for the tyre on the drum is different. So... You can use the wrong parts to give a wider tyre J section. Theres around 10mm difference. Not sure which way round it is but I have 2 sets of motors that look very similar, other than this. One set came from the mid drive chair. So you can have a slightly wider or narrower track.

[Irving]

Theres another. Some have a deeper/shallower wheel rim, and the position of the ridge for the tyre on the drum is different. So... You can use the wrong parts to give a wider tyre J section. Theres around 10mm difference. Not sure which way round it is but I have 2 sets of motors that look very similar, other than this. One set came from the mid drive chair. So you can have a slightly wider or narrower track.

That's the 2 TDX motors I listed. Neither the Storm 3 nor Storm 4 parts lists mention this variation, only the TDX parts list. It's not clear which TDX motor corresponds to the Storm motors, if indeed there is any consistency; you would have thought that Invacare would have used the same parts (and part #) across the board.

[stevelawiw]

Ok thanks, information is power! I think all of mine are the older variant

[Williamclark77]

There was an earlier version for Storm 2G/Arrow/Torque chairs c 1998/9 which had a hub rather than the 8" rim. I can't find a part # for them, but I doubt you'd want them anyway.

Allegedly the Storm4 have more torque than the Storm3.

The difference between the TDX motors is the later ones have a slightly wider rim increasing chair width by 0.75".
GB motors were options on TDX - TDX4 & standard on TDX5

My first chair after I broke my neck was an old Arrow 2gt (or some similar nomenclature) with the gb motors. Very efficient and fast for a stock powerchair. Unfortunately, it was very weak. Near 0 starting torque. Someone could put their foot in front of the tire and the controller would max out without the chair moving. Stop on a ramp and you had to back down. Once it was rolling it did good. It would not wheelie from a start but would if you were rolling slowly and gave full throttle.

I THINK those motors are still around here stored somewhere. I thought about doing a chair build at 48v with some but they're too big.

[Burgerman]

My first chair after I broke my neck was an old Arrow 2gt (or some similar nomenclature) with the gb motors. Very efficient and fast for a stock powerchair. Unfortunately, it was very weak. Near 0 starting torque. Someone could put their foot in front of the tire and the controller would max out without the chair moving. Stop on a ramp and you had to back down. Once it was rolling it did good. It would not wheelie from a start but would if you were rolling slowly and gave full throttle.

Trust me, the storm 3 and 4 motors are much the same. To me, not usable. And 190 battery amps to turn an EMPTY chair.

[stevelawiw]

Ok, I know you're right about the lack of torque from a standing start, but I feel I should have a go at defending GB honour

Silent in use (apart from annoying electronic chatter in a silent room before the brakes engage and turn the motor power off)

Less moving parts (no brushes or gears)

Very efficient once underway

Can't think of anymore!

[Burgerman]

There I agree. But that 1 issue made me send mine back and get a refund. It wouldnt reliably turn if you did it say 3 times.

[hank]

Only fault i think with brushless in tight turning spaces there is slight noticable
delay on turn over brushed geared motors

[stevelawiw]

Maybe that's something using a Roboteq controller with Lenny's script might make a bit better.
I know what you mean tho, when someone is waiting for you to move it can seem like an age sometimes

[stevelawiw]

Hank have you got the pic of the d-sub connector with the pins numbered please?

[hank]

Steve all i have is what i gave you sorry.
Sure someone can help you.

[stevelawiw]

Ok Hank, no worries.

[stevelawiw]

Found this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB13W3
It looks right
pins 7 and 8 arn't used, check
pins 9 and ten are the brake, check

[shirley_hkg]

youtu.be/F8fpUXcyr7s

We've been travelling in our Chinese way for 2 decades, 50_ish Km a day.

Two grown-ups, chair with T&R dead load itself, with all that belongings and Souvenirs, weighs over 320Kg.

Wife and I went to collect 2 boxes of total 32 EVE-LF105 cells @2kg. Extra 65kg load on chair carrying two adults. That's 360kg.

I pickup and steer right. I can turn on a dime. My chair has the older/weaker torque 8.5mph motors, and IT IS 15 YEARS OLD.

I don't follow BM's aggressive programming entirely.

Could any body explain the different outcomes ?

[shirley_hkg]

Head for home, after vacation.

Wife stepped down, and I waited outside a 7-11, Bangkok .

[Irving]

Wow, those wheel bearings must be pleased when you get home!

@Shirley_hkg Please see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9104

[Burgerman]

I think you need a vehicle!

[Scooterman]

Shirley - right at the end of the video there's a car parked in the way. Should he not be parked there?

[Scooterman]

Wife and I went to collect 2 boxes of total 32 EVE-LF105 cells

Are they the ones with M4 thread?

[shirley_hkg]

Shirley - right at the end of the video there's a car parked in the way. Should he not be parked there?

This a sub lane, alongside the main road , where one can stops and drop off. But no parking.


youtu.be/XnhM5AUWuhA

Wife and I went to collect 2 boxes of total 32 EVE-LF105 cells

Are they the ones with M4 thread?

Yes,
you are right .

I did find big fat lugs and plan flat base flange lock nuts, that together can give large and firm contact.

[Burgerman]

Nothing wrong with 4mm. It just requires a little care and understanding. And not swinging around on spanners like a 200lb gorilla.

I will in 3 weeks like to order a set of those, subject to a) bum/sore issue, and b) money from PPI going into bank.

Can I have a link to accurate measurements of those 105Ah cells?

[Scooterman]

Are lugs available that can accommodate a large diameter cable but still have only an M4 bolt clearance hole?

The reason I ask is usually the larger the cable size the bigger the lug bolt clearance hole?

At least that's the way it tends to be in the UK but I'm only familiar with power/mains electrics so perhaps automotive lugs are different? But then it seems everything is available in China. Some of the stuff you post Shirley you'd never get over here.

[Burgerman]

Lugs...

[Burgerman]

No. You specify the hole size and cable sizes.

Are lugs available that can accommodate a large diameter cable but still have only an M4 bolt clearance hole?
The reason I ask is usually the larger the cable size the bigger the lug bolt clearance hole?

Here for e.g. you can choose 5mm hole (will be ok) and a 10sqmm cable.
For interconnect cables as there 16 cells, you could use 4mm hole (will need drilling to 4.5mm ideally) and 6sqmm cable.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Copper-Tube- ... YmkvRCEr7A

[Scooterman]

What type of cable do you plan on using for the links?

Silicone or pvc stranded?