Quicki P222 se - New motors ? how can i know

[expresso]

Hi - i just got my chair back this morning - they ordered New motors - and few minor things -
i havnt used it yet to see if the motors fixed the issue it had before - but what i did notice was - first i asked and got my old motors returned to me - in case i ever need them - i can have them rebuilt and use them - for less than half the cost of new motors -

these are 8.5 mph motors - my concern is - the new motors i got back - look a bit different - they have a silver ring going around the front where the brushes are -

my originals dont have that - they are all black - is there any way to know for sure if they are the high speed motors 8.5 mph ?

besides riding it - i want to fix my wiring first and then ride it on friday and see if it feels as fast as before - i can only ride with a friend who i know does 7 and i am much faster than her chair -

has any one with this model chair - had new motors installed recently etc, can you confirm if they are all black or have a silver ring going around the motor in the front where the brushes are - ?

thanks

[Burgerman]

Connect a 12v batt to brake, and motor brushes, and count RPM. It will be around 110 per minute, for 8.5mph. You can easily count that rate by watching on yoyr watch. Like taking a pulse. Or read tha part number and look it up on the web. If it says 196 to 220 rpm or gives the same gear ratio as the old motors, then its good to go!

[expresso]

i havnt a clue what the gear ratio was on the old one - and i dont see any markings or labels on it to check

i will double check tomorrow when i fix the wiring on it - will have a friend do it and check the motors if any markings - or label - i didnt see any so far

i dont mind if its silver ring where the brushes are - but the old ones were all black - makes me think - i will ride it on friday after i fix the wiring and check again

i will call sunrise and see if i can get some info on the order placed for it - and see how fast it feels when i ride - no one else has a fast chair around here that i can compare it to - only one friend - she has the GB motors - its about 7 mph -

if i can pass her easily like i am used to doing - then its ok - if not - or if i cant keep up with her - then its not the same speed motors - i hope its not the case and just a different look

[snaker]

- Try to find the motors model S/N and then check it on google or on the quickie site.
- Open a tracking app on your phone and try to run the chair at max speed for a mile. Then watch the avg speed on the stats => it should be 8-8.5 mph.

[CPguy]

There is also one more possiblity: Even if you have the motors with right gear box providing more speed and it still goes slow it may be due to the programming. (They slowed me down after a repair once but I just reprogrammed it, lol)

Good luck!

[expresso]

thanks - i dont think they did anything in terms of changing my settings - but of course i would have to double check that and if thats the case - thats not a problem i have saved settings etc, and can program again -

i havnt used the chair just yet - since i want to fix the wiring first tonight - and i was charging it yesterday - so i will most likely run it tomorrow and can get a feel for it

i had an app once but it was never accurate with the speed - i rely more on how i feel since i am used to the speed - and or have to run side by side with a friend who i know does about 7 mph - if i pass her easily or catch up and pass etc, - then i know -

i have to check if i can see any label or SN for it - i think its hidden behind the rear tire so i cant get a good picture of it read it - i notice its 4 pole - so thats a good sign at least - when i check the parts online - they have either a 2 pole or 4 pole motor - with the 4 polo being the 8.5 mph - but can never be sure if online sites are up to date etc, - i know in the past - they made a 7mph or heavy duty version which i dont want - and the standard 6.5 mph which may be 4 pole also - i dont know for a fact -

my chair serial number should show up as having 8.5mph when purchased - and they should replace with same - but what they should do and actually do - can be different -
the silver ring around where the brushes are is what is making me question it - i can be wrong and it may be just a change in look - which is fine with me - it does have a different sounding click to it when i move it as opposed to the previous ones - seems smoother but just moving it in the house for now -

i will try calling sunrise later if i can get to them on the phone -

[Burgerman]

i had an app once but it was never accurate with the speed - i rely more on how i feel since i am used to the speed - and or have to run side by side with a friend who i know does about 7 mph - if i pass her easily or catch up and pass etc, - then i know -

GPS apps cant really be wrong. Its all digital. I have a couple on my phone, and they seem to grab your speed and be very accurate within a few meters of traveling. Don't know how it can be wrong. Test it against a stopwatch, you should find its spot on.

E.g.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-con ... /15mph.mp4

Tells me my 6mph chairs all do 6 and a bit. And my van speed is correct too.

[expresso]

do you know the name of your apps - i can try to get the same ones -

thanks

[Burgerman]

Dunno, will take a look on my phone. Its dead right now will post later. But they SHOULD all be equally accurate, its basically down to the GPS system.

[snaker]

@expresso: What is your phone? And what is your tracking app's name and its link? Some Chinese android phones with cheap Mediatek chips have problems with GPS. They take long time to get the location and the location might be inaccurate. You live in US -> many high-end phones with low price to chose, so you might not face this 'Chinese problem'. Your problem might be on your tracking app's quality. Because there are a lot of tracking apps. Some are good, some are bad. We do not know their quality till we tried them. You should try several apps and pick up the best one.

[Burgerman]

I did try a few. All apps seem to grab lots of sattelites pretty fast and will not start to read speed without 5 or 6 plus.

And in use the actual speed lags only by around 2 meters or 2 seconds behind reality. Some read decimals too quite accurately.

I think he may be in new york though. Tall buildings block sattelites...

However it should STILL be very accurate.

An article by racelogic who build high tech speed monitor and test equipment:
The use of GPS in automotive testing is now well established, and Racelogic has been a market leader and innovator for over a decade. GPS systems have revolutionised the accuracy and convenience of testing, development, and validation within the industry. Why and how is it so effective?

There is a common misconception that speed measured via GPS is done so as a function of position against time. If this were the case, GPS velocity would be just about unusable, because GPS position relies on precise measurements of the distance from the receiver to the satellite, and therefore suffers from numerous effects - such as atmospheric interference - which delays the signal.

Fortunately, velocity isn't measured like this: instead, the Doppler shift in the signals coming from the satellites is captured and this leads to an incredibly accurate measurement of speed.

If you are tracking seven satellites, then this is like having seven police radar guns aimed at you: the measurement is made by taking them all into account.

[Burgerman]

http://binary-toys.ch/

I am using this. At least on my 15mph vid. It works very well. The thing does a multitude of stuff.

Why isnt this, and other GPS/MAPPING/Data and distance, range, prediction based on altitude, route, power used, actual route and current draw taken, etc built right into the pod, along with a reverse view so you can see behind. And a camera front and rear that records.

-- what is the point of a big screen pod in your face, that just has an innacurate battery gauge based only on volts, and a guessed / fudged speed and estimated miles?... Ask mark. Hes all for user centric innovation apparently. This way would be much more accurate and 1000 times more useful info with maps, route planning, logging of track taken, etc etc. It could take a phone card, and have phone and mobile internet access too. And accelerometers, gyros, as well as GPS for about the cost of a phone, that you would no longer require.

[expresso]

its a reg. anroid samsung phone - and yes i am in NYC - i will do a search and download one to try this weekend - the motors are 4 pole - i dont see any SN or markings on the case - which is the same way on my originals -

i had a speed app before and it was set to MPH - and alot of times - it read alot more than my speed really is - i had to double check that it was set to MPH -

i will go check the google store for an app -

[expresso]

the bottom picture with Two motors in a box - those are the old motors -

thanks for the app. - i just installed it - or at least i started it - its not on my phone just yet - dont know why it takes so long - i clicked install - says all ok etc. -but takes a long while before i get it on my phone -

will try again - moving the chair around in the house feels smoother - but i havnt sat in it yet - just wiped it down a going to fix the wires so they are not hanging under my seat etc, - will ride it tomorrow and see how it feels

if it dosnt lean to the left - when i let go of the joystick - then thats good news - at least for that part - if the speed is the same - which i feel it may be fine - the motors look the same other than the silver ring instead of all black -

but never know till i ride it to be sure - and hopefully i have the app on my phone to check

[expresso]

Ok i finally was able to get some info from the motors - its hard to see

the Right side motor says this

Electrocraft - Mobile Power Plus - Part # 868-014120 - Catalog # 499464

the Left side motor says - S/N S000283 Part # 868-015121 - Catalog 499465 - Date 3-5-15

thats all i am able to see -

i checked the parts online and dont see a match for the part numbers - i will try googling it -

if anyone can make it out - post back what you find - thanks i will be riding it tomorrow - feels much smoother just moving it around in the house - and quiet - i havnt sat in it yet - just had a friend fix the wiring - and charger cable - put the cushion back and back on charger till tomorrow - my speed app is still installing -

[Burgerman]

Catalog = same motors.

[Sully]

I do believe the manufacturers will use the same motor matched with different gear boxes to achieve different speeds with those same motors. There should be a label on the gear box that also has a serial number and Part number, this is the one that describes to dealers (part changers) which is supposedly the right one for you. Or at least can match your old ones.

I also think most of the 4 pole motors will probably have that larger than the field housing, "silver" band, but it may be sprayed with a paint so it was not so noticeable.

[expresso]

Catalog = same motors.

i dont understand - the catalog are the new motors - i dont know if those are the same as the old motors that came out -

the information i found on the motors - i cant find anything on the web about them - google dosnt give me any info -

i finally got the app on my phone and will be going on today to try the chair -

[rustyjames]

I'm pretty sure that the 222SE and 646SE use the same motors. I have two 646SE chairs and they both have the all black motors. I've noticed that the 636 chairs have the silver bandend motors for whatever reason, but that's not saying your motors aren't 8.5mph. And as far as web searching motor part numbers, that is often fruitless, as I've got several motors, and a Pilot + controller that I can't find any info on.

[expresso]

Yes and NO - - yes they use the same motors both chairs P222 se and S646se - but thats now - they use the same motors - when i got my P222 Se its almost 4 years ago and it was right before they changed to the new motors

so i got the Old style motors on the P222se - i have a new S646se - its a year old and those are also 8.5 mph and are different motors - i cant find anything on the part number and serial number -

i did ride the chair first time today and its much smoother than my old motors and snappy - i dont know for sure if they hit 8.5 mph - the phone app i used - i dont trust it - its flaky to me - says mostly 7 mph - and then sometimes i hit 8 and then it showed even 9 mph - which i know its not -

i was riding with my friend who does about a good 7 mph - she has the invacare with the GB motors - - and i was clearly faster and pulled away - the chair motors are much quieter and smoother than my originals - chair feels snappy

i have to check the settings and re program it now - i am still not 100% convinced about the top speed - but overall its feels great and i can live with it if i had to - i am just curious to know for sure the motors i got what they are spec. to be

they do look the same in terms of physical size etc, - if they were all Black and didnt have the silver around - i might not have second gessed it - my old P220 has the silver around it - but they are 2 pole 6.5 mph motors - 12 years old - they look different - physical size -

i know they once made motors that came in 6.5 mph - 7 mph and 8.5 mph - which they all say - UP TO 8.5 mph etc. - they may get there or may be close too - at the time i got my P222 se - they only sold the P222 se and the S646 and 636 -

i have to call sunrise and see if i can find out what was sold to my vendor etc, - google online dosnt give me any info - that i can use - i really hope they are spec for 8.5 mph - i will try a different speed app - just to see -

[Burgerman]

8.5 is an approximate figure. It varies with user weight, terrain, battery state of charge and type, controller programming headroom, and tyre size or even pressure. And obviously slower uphill and faster down. Your 7, 8 and even 9 is entirely possible all on the same day. The GPS will not be wrong. Delayd by a few secs possibly, and averaged, even rounded up or down. But correct.

[expresso]

to be honest - i never really knew how fast the original motors were - the app i had then was way off - it gave me speeds of 12 mph at times which i know is wrong - i never stressed it since i was clearly faster than any other chairs i ride with

now the 646se i can see the speed on the joystick - so i know i hit between 8.2 and 8.5 - maybe drops to 8.1 and back - all depending on the roads etc, - now the new motors on the P222 se - it still feels fast and i am still faster than my friend i ride with - but her batteries are dead really - she dosnt feel her speed has changed - but it may very be she may be a bit slower than 7 mph now - when she gets new batteries - it may help a bit

i clearly can catch up and pass her and pull away if i stay on full speed - what i notice is the new motors are very very smooth compared to my old ones - a bit quieter and the click on the joystick is different - the programming part - i will check it today before going out to see -

what i noticed is - with the old motors - i had my chair adjusted for indoors on the 2 speed mode - i adjusted that for indoors to make it easier for my workers to move the chair around safely for them - and when i go out i put it back up to my 3 or 4 depending - i have different settings for 3 and 4 - 5 i left alone as it came from the factory -

so now with the new motors - the 2 settings which was fine before to move around in the house - its too fast for them now - so i have to put it to the 1 speed and its fine for them to move it around on 1 - instead of 2 now - that could have been the old motors not being what they should have been -

i have to check my settings to make sure its full speed - i may go back to original settings and then start over to adjust for me - since the turning is very very sensitive now - much more than it was before - its clear the new motors are more responsive - - maybe its just me - since its smoother - and chair feels more quiet - that it may not feel as fast -

i still like to know for sure - if i got the correct 8.5 mph motors part number etc, - i have to call sunrise to find out if i can - the part number on the motor - dosnt show me any info from google - the S/N either - i emailed sunrise and i emailed Electrocraft - i will try calling next week -

even if its the correct part for the 8.5 motor - they will always say - its a average - its not guaranteed to be 8.5 all the time - i may only hit 7.5 mph or 8 - and never hit 8.5 mph - maybe they slower it down a bit just to make it more reliable or last longer etc, - i cant complain - it feels good - but i would be upset if i cant hit at least 8 all the time - i downloaded another app and see what that shows me today

[Burgerman]

now the 646se i can see the speed on the joystick

No you cant. That only displays the joystick position... Actually motor pulsewidth.

It doesn't really measure speed. It can be accurate, or it can be miles out. Depends on who programmed the joystick/controller...

Works like this. You program a "full speed" in. At half stick it then displays half of this. At full stick it displays all of this...
Change motors or gearing, or wheel size, and it will still tell you the same top speed. The Sat speed display should be accurate. If its not theres a problem with the software or something. Time it over a 1/4 mile and work it out.

[expresso]

i have a Rnet color screen joystick - it shows the battery lights - time - date - and speed - i can see it moving as i move - but i understand what your saying - that seems much more accurate and feels it to me than the app i tried yesterday

i have a different app i will try today - remember this is the city here - its crowded and sometimes i dont even get a signal GPS - and i have to find a smooth long block to do it - sidewalks dont work good - varies too much

[Burgerman]

Well if you don't get adequate satellites it wont read right. Get into the open! I doubt its the app. I get a lock on at least 5 or 6 as soon as I leave my house. And 7 or so a minute later.

[expresso]

I have 3 reasons this is not working out -

first - it can be the apps - and me holding the phone etc, -

or it can be that the new motors are just not going to hit 8 or 8.5 - who knows how they are geared or if they are even geared for 8.5 to start with - they may be 7.5 mph or 7 mph

my friends chair - i am able to catch and pull away with no problem - her chair should be doing a solid 7 mph - but the only difference is - her batteries are not new and waiting to be changed out - she says she dosnt feel any slower requardless and feels that i am much faster -

so it can be a combination of things now - if her chair is a bit slower because of batteries - that could be why it she seems i am alot faster - maybe when she gets new batteries - she may feel faster and making me feel slower if she keeps up -

to be honest - i never used it full speed what ever it may be before - only if i was alone - or else no one can keep up anyway - so i slowed it down to ride with others - i think its in the 7mph range or 7.5 mph - i never really tested it before because the app then gave me weird results also - it showed 12 mph - at times - which i know its not that fast -

unless i get info from Sunrise or Electrocraft with the S/N i have and part numbers etc, - i wont know what the motors were spec to or geared for etc, - i am hoping to get in touch with sunrise tomorrow if i can -

bottom line - i am not even sure i mind that much since its still fast and faster than the rest - - i hope i am wrong about the motors and its correct - if not - i have to decide to keep it as is - or complain and force my vendor to take it back and get another pair of motors spec for 8.5 mph - if theres such a thing now - since - they will say - UP TO 8.5 mph - may never get there - but it can if conditions are just right

if you look over the order forms on sunrisemedical.com - they dont say UP TO - they just say the speed 8.5mph - and thats it - i would hate to have to give back my chair again and do it over - but then i feel cheated if they are not spec for at least 8 mph -

i wish i could find info on google but had no luck

[expresso]

Sunrise medical just confirmed to me that those are the correct motors and speed 8.5 mph - so i guess thats that - i just called and they gave me part number theres - 886692 and 886693 -

not the same as on the motor - thats from Electrocraft - i want to try to contact them and confirm it - but Sunrise says its correct one for that chair - was told they done make any other for that model - i know they did many years ago - but since they stopped all models except for the P222se - and S models - the P222se only came with one motor - 8.5 mph - no other options that was standard -

good to know at least - that leaves the question of the apps i used - if this is correct then the apps are off - or a combonation of both

[FelipeOliveira]

P222 SE, 4 pole electrocraft motors, could anyone tell me the specifications and dimensions of the carbon brushes? Is it the right setting for a smooth operation?

[Burgerman]

Not sure I understand your question.

[FelipeOliveira]

This is de parameters that I have now