Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 22 May 2020, 09:43

Khalid wrote:Okay i will try that and ill let you know, i guess if this fails ill need another ftdi board right


Possibly.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby disabile67 » 11 Jul 2020, 02:37

Hi, I came here hoping to be able to solve my problem.

I own a Pride victory xl140 scooter bought new five years ago.
In 2017, to have more autonomy (original 75Ah batteries), I purchased 120Ah batteries in an online store. These, after only two years, one day almost left me on the street, just over ten kilometers from my home. I don't know how I did it but slowly (about four kilometers per hour) I managed to go home.
I thought that one or both of the batteries were to be replaced (cheap Chinese brand batteries) and I decided to install two more 100 Ah Fiamm. I decided for this brand because I have two more (80 Ah) on the electric wheelchair that still work after about five years.
Well, buy the spring of 2019, and, after only fourteen months (twelve months warranty ...), I found myself traveling only twenty kilometers instead of the almost fifty of just mounted.
At first I got angry because I thought I had a rip-off and that the batteries were defective (two Fiamm 80Ah still good after five years and these Fiamm 100Ah only one year? ...), then, however, the scooter is it has been going well for two days, after twenty kilometers it has eaten only a green light.
At this point I didn't know what to do ... are the batteries to be changed or does the scooter have any problems?
I have not yet trusted to travel more than twenty kilometers for fear of staying still away from home, maybe next week I try.
All this led me around the net to look for some solution to the problem, which was not found, but I found you and your explanation on how to connect the scooter to the PC. Maybe in this way I could see if connecting the control unit to the PC, some list of errors or faults of the scooter came up.
I don't know if this is possible or not to see, however, given the costs that have the assistance for repairs, I thought that trying would not hurt.

Now my request would be: could you please tell me where to find the program to install on the PC?
I've been looking for him for three days but can't find him.

I apologize for all the writing errors but I don't speak English, I am Italian, to read and write I use the Google translator.

I hope for your help.

Hello and thanks.
Stephen
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby LROBBINS » 11 Jul 2020, 08:29

Lead acid batteries last longer if always kept as full as possible, so you should charge every day even if used only for a few moments. If you use it for more than a very few km, it's a good idea to plug it in for a quick zap during the day as well.

If the batteries started out with different levels of charge, no charger will get them both full - one will overcharge and the other undercharge. So before using for the first time, disconnect them from the chair and temporarily wire them in parallel (+ to + and - to -) and leave them that way for several hours (a full 24 is best). Then remove the temporary connections, re-connect to chair and charge completely. Completely means not till you get a green light, but for as many hours as possible after that while they top off at float voltage (if your charger actually has a float voltage and is working properly).

Fiamm makes several different series of sealed (AGM) batteries. Some are intended for standby, low-current use, others for cyclic use which is what you want - I think it's the Super Cyclic series. They all have relatively high internal resistance, so won't give the snappy performance of, for example, Odyssey Extreme, but they are pretty reliable if kept as close to 100% charge as possible. Given that this is a scooter, however, there's less need for high current draw as one has with a wheelchair when turning in place, so the Fiamm are probably a decent choice.

Changing programming will almost not solve charge problems.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Burgerman » 11 Jul 2020, 11:01

Lead battery problems are extremely common on scooters or powerchairs. The main subject of all the issues on this forum. The fact that you got 2 years is already quite amazing. 9 months of hard use is nearer the mark. It all depends how they are treated.

I cannot stress how important the things that lenny says above really are.

Even the best quality batteries, and theres only really a couple (MK gel, not AGM, and Odyssey) are still inadequate and pretty rubbish when compared to the modern lithium packs many of us are using today.

Things that literally KILL your batteries fast include:
1. Too small battery fitted. Frequently see this in powerchairs and scooters.
2. One battery replaced out of a pair.
3. Failure to fully charge (to ensure both are ABSOLUTELY EQUALLY CHARGED) on initial instalation, BEFORE installing. Each one seperately, or in parallel.
4.Discarging them deeply. Ie if the battery CAN go 30 miles, only go 15. Dont discharge below 50% or at very worst 80% on odd occasions. The deeper they are discharged the faster they die and this is the usual cause of death. Discharge below 11.2V - around 90% and you get only a few 10s of cycles.
5. NOT charging them imediately after use!
6. Most mobility charger as simply crap. If they are charged with these things, you will get half the service life.
7. Heat. Aver couple of degrees HALVES the service life.
8. Undercharging. Charge daily, at least overnight and leave them connected for 24 hours or longer at least weekly if possible.
9. CHEAP batteries. All lead batteries are junk. The best possible ones are slighly less junk. The rest are false economy. The very best are low resistance and so you get better performance and MORE RANGE. But IF CHARGED CORRECTLY, they will give you 400 cycles or so before range becomes 2/3rds of the original range. The cheap ones half that.

Realistically you are likely doing many of the things they hate, and will not get anywhere near the cycle life you expect. Anything from a few months to 9 months is common. Even is you obey all of the above. I suspect you are expecting too much and going too far and and charging with a crappy mobility charger murdering the batteries.

Also no battery goes bad in 2 years 1 day. They start off at 95% capacity. Rise to around 105% capacity in the first 10 to 20 cycles. Then after this first month the decline begins. Range gets less and less every cycle as capacity diminishes. You only notice this when it impacts on your day 2 years and 1 day later.

The reality is that after 2 months your 100Ah battery is probably a 90Ah one. And after a year of hard use it is a 60Ah one.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby drainscan » 15 Jul 2020, 07:47

Hi Woody,

First off what a comprehensive and interesting forum.

I have 2 scooters a Pride apex rapid 2020 and TGA Breeze midi 2018, both have S-Drives, both of which could do with some tweaking as I live in London with narrow pavements and busy roads to cross.

After a fair amount of trial and error I have made a lead to your design (I used a genuine FTDI USB adaptor "TTL-232R-3V3-PCB" purchased from RS componets cost £14.74 all in, so no issues with win10 drivers) which communicates well with the scooters. However I only have the dealer version 14.6.0 of PG Drives Technology PC Programmer. I have spent many hours searching the net for the manufacturers or oem versions but failed to find them, tried registering on https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/ but had no response.
When I have all I intend to post a beginning to end version of what I did which may help non-techs like me succeed.

If you can, please let me know where to get manufacturers and oem pc versions from.

Thanks in advance, kind regards Bob
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby drainscan » 16 Jul 2020, 08:21

Hi Bugerman and Woody,
Thanks for link so quickly, OEM version works great on Pride Apex Rapid, I will try it on TGA Breeze midi at the weekend. Then will start putting together a full description to put on here.
Thanks again, kind regards Bob
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby LROBBINS » 27 Jul 2020, 13:10

per Disabile67

CIao Stefano,

per piacere controlla i tuoi "private messages"
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Chikinhed » 09 Aug 2020, 07:43

Hi guys, I’m trying to troubleshoot my Pride Pursuit XL. I’ve replaced the S-Drive controller and it still doesn’t work. I’ve made a USB FTDI programming cable, downloaded the programming software and FTDI driver, verified that the computer is seeing the the cable in Devices, Bluetooth & Other Devices as ‘TTL232R-3V3’, in PC Mobility Programmer I’ve selected COM3, I have the other end of the cable plugged into the S-Drive 200 amp controller and the scooter is turned on, there is a solid power indicator (not flashing codes). At the bottom RH corner of the screen it says ‘COMMS INACTIVE’ and the read/write arrows are grayed out. I’ve tried using a 33k resistor, a 47k resistor, no resistor and have not had any luck so far. The cable is a TTL-232R-3V3-WE from Digital-Key, the diode is a 1N4007-T and I’m using the Molex Jr plug wired per the drawing posted. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 09 Aug 2020, 14:33

Difficult to say from here ... BUT ...it will not be the PGDT Software.

It could be the FTDI Driver installation.... you seem to have eliminated that.

You could try a direct connection to the 4 pin Molex ..with just TX , RX and GND. ( try swapping over TX and RX if you do not get any luck )


tx rx.jpg
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Chikinhed » 09 Aug 2020, 19:18

Thanks so much for the advice Woody, I’ll give it a go this afternoon.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Chikinhed » 09 Aug 2020, 20:24

Is it possible that the 1N4007 diode is not switching fast enough or is that even a factor?
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 09 Aug 2020, 20:54

Maybe ... Change it for the recommended one or use a schottky diode.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Chikinhed » 09 Aug 2020, 22:01

Do you have a part number for the Schottky diode I should use?

I won't be able to get one until tomorrow. I've tried a bunch more trouble shooting and tried the orange and yellow wires direct to pins 3&4 as you recommended, none of which has worked so far.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 09 Aug 2020, 22:29

I am using 1N5711.

Question ... I note that you have replaced your controller with a new one in an attempt to fix your scooter .... So ...is your S-Drive actually powering up ?

I.E. is it getting a ON/OFF signal from the key to pin 7 ?

You can try jumpering between pin 5 and 7 as these are the pins that normally go to the ON/OFF switch.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 09 Aug 2020, 22:48

Additionally you can add in a diagnostics led between pins 10 and 13 ( 0v /GND ) ...this will flash a certain sequence depending on the error OR simply stay ON indicating that the S-Drive has powered up.
sdrive con.png
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EDIT... I should perhaps been clearer on my question about the S-Drive powering up ... I am wondering if the original S-Drive was ever really faulty and you simply have a wiring fault that is preventing it turning ON .
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Chikinhed » 09 Aug 2020, 23:05

The original S-Drive controller had a burnt spot on the PCB through a couple of layers.

Image

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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Chikinhed » 09 Aug 2020, 23:39

It is totally possible that there is still a wiring fault or faulty component. I'm hoping that getting the PG Drive software to connect and using the diagnostics to help find the issue. I have tried swapping wiring harnesses as well as doing a continuity check for the harness from the forward harness to the controller with no fault found. I've tried a different console and battery/LED meter assembly.

I've used the X-CTU software to test the FTDI cable and it passed all the tests.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Chikinhed » 09 Aug 2020, 23:57

I've connected an LED across pin 10 and 13 and I get the same indication as the power indicator on the console if I create a fault such as holding the throttle handle forward/reverse will turning on the key switch. When I just turn on the switch, I get no flashing. It's like it is being inhibited. The motor turns if I apply battery power directly to it. If I put the lever on the motor to freewheel and turn on the key switch I get the five flashes code as I should.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby rickystyx » 10 Aug 2020, 07:21

Have you checked the charging circuit (assuming you have disconnected the charger before trying to get it to move) there is an inhibit on the charging circuit which lets everything power up but stops the scooter from moving if the charger is plugged in. If there is a fault on the charging socket or its wiring that would stop the scooter from moving even though everything lights up.
I'm no expert but this is a common problem apparently
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 10 Aug 2020, 11:52

I suspect an internal inhibit fault ( inhibit pin shorted to GND ) as the S-drive powers up and the mobility scooter will not drive AND it is not possible to communicate with the controller ... NOTE that comms is via the inhibit pin of the 4 pin MOLEX.

Stick a multimeter between the Inhibit and GND see if you have a short.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Chikinhed » 11 Aug 2020, 00:01

Bingo! You guys called it. I picked up the right diode this morning and connected the wires per the posted drawing using the 47k resistor and..... com inactive. I was in the process of switching to a 33k resistor and when I removed the 47k/red wire it switched to read com active, both arrows lit up and I could then use the diagnostics. It gave me a code of 1E0A which is Inhibit 3, which is OBC. In the manual it says it can be a wiring fault or a program setting issue. I’ll try to get do more troubleshooting this evening if I get a chance.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 11 Aug 2020, 00:18

Good news ...can you see the "help" files ? ..If not go here and follow the instructions.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8035&p=123441&hilit=winhlp32win10#p123441
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby ex-Gooserider » 11 Aug 2020, 00:24

One of the not so nice things about the Pride on board chargers is that they work the inhibit in the OPPOSITE direction from the off-board chargers... At least they did on my old Jazzy (back when it had an On-board charger....)

The on-board chargers also had a tendency to fail... :cussing

Also look at fuse holders carefully - I had one fail by the plastic softening just enough for the contact on one end to not make a connection with the fuse... Was a real pain to troubleshoot - Fuse checked OK, I had continuity from the inside of the holder to each end of the harness, but open circuit with the fuse in the holder - czy banghead

Apparently there is a relay in the on-board charger 'blob' that opens when the charger is plugged in and lets the inhibit line float... When the charger is unplugged it closes the relay and ties the inhibit line to ground. Best approach if removing the OBC is to disable the inhibit in the software, or reverse it's operation setting. If that isn't possible put a resistor (about 10K is good) between the inhibit line that used to come from the OBC and ground...

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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Chikinhed » 11 Aug 2020, 18:40

I reconnected the controller to the computer and it would not connect. I needed to re connect the red wire and disconnect it to get the com active again.

Can any of you provide me with the wiring schematic for the Pride Pursuit XL please?
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Chikinhed » 11 Aug 2020, 21:00

I got the scooter going. I had to disable Inhibit 3 and invert the throttle. This is with a D51448.06 S-Drive II 200 amp controller instead of the D51460.07 that was in it. Thanks guys! :clap
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Sam L » 20 Aug 2020, 16:25

Greetings, group, and sincere thanks to ntl99, woodygb and others who have provided information here!

I too would like to ask if anyone is willing to share PG Drives configuration software. My hope is to find something that works with our PG Drives D50506.01 from a Golden Buzzaround Lite (EMG Technology "E-Scooter" 180W 24V 4200RPM motor, no hall sensors).

My son and I actually salvaged parts from this thriftshop mobility scooter to make an electric gokart. It worked a treat for a while, but now goes herky-jerky when under load. That controller is pretty old, so it's been hard to find a direct replacement. I've already replaced MOSFETs, but it's still temperamental. I'm hoping to learn more about the settings for our chair, and see if I can migrate them to a newer controller. Sounds like the software might show a little more detail on the "controller" blink codes, too.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 20 Aug 2020, 17:32

The D50506.01 is a 70 amp S-drive.... you should be able to find loads of S-drives on ebay.

e.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/D51272-70-Amp- ... SwPg9b~hOG
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Sam L » 20 Aug 2020, 23:38

Thanks, woodygb. I actually had that exact link in my eBay watchlist! I had difficulty finding specs for the 50506.01, but info for the Buzzaround lite seemed to hint it was a 45W controller. I purchased a 51270.06 (a 45W controller) off eBay to try, but that had problems at max speed setting, too. I'll try again with a 70W.

Part of my concern with swapping in a different controller is won't I need to tune it for my specific motor, wig-wag, throttle pot, etc? This is why I figured I'd need the software.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 21 Aug 2020, 00:09

There is some "tuning" that can be done ... the biggest problem would be if the throttle input type needed to be changed.

You may also need to look at the motor compensation setting ...note GREAT care should be taken playing around with motor compensation as a grossly incorrect setting can cause a runaway.

Odd that you are getting a jerky drive with 2 different controllers ... so I would look somewhere else for your fault .

Start by stripping the motor ...paying close attention to the brushes AND their holders.
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Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 21 Aug 2020, 00:14

Sam L wrote:Thanks, woodygb. I actually had that exact link in my eBay watchlist! I had difficulty finding specs for the 50506.01, but info for the Buzzaround lite seemed to hint it was a 45W controller. I purchased a 51270.06 (a 45W controller) off eBay to try, but that had problems at max speed setting, too. I'll try again with a 70W.



Your math is wrong volts x amps = Watts ...Thus the 70 Amp controller comes in at 1,680 watts and the 45 Amp at 1,080 Watts.

A motor watts rating is simply a HEAT dissipation rating.
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