Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Power wheelchair board for REAL info!

POWERCHAIR MENU! www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair-stuff.htm

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 31 Mar 2018, 19:45

Pop over to this thread for an update on making cables.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2111&start=1160#p117017
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Digipro » 03 Apr 2018, 00:32

Thanks woody have been and downloaded the diagram and will start to get the parts needed for the cable. May I ask does anyone know where I can track down the software to program my s-drive for when I get the cable all made up ?.

Thanks

Steve
Digipro
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 31 Mar 2018, 13:27
Location: Sheffield

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby ex-Gooserider » 03 Apr 2018, 00:45

You will probably be getting a personal message shortly with details about that....

ex-Gooserider
T-5, ASIA-B
Jazzy 1100
Jazzy Select 6
Quickie Q-7
Invacare Mariner
Want to make / get a better chair, ideally one that stands.
User avatar
ex-Gooserider
 
Posts: 5342
Joined: 15 Feb 2011, 06:17
Location: Billerica, MA. USA

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 03 Apr 2018, 00:48

:shifty:
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Digipro » 03 Apr 2018, 11:56

Thanks woodygb and thanks for the software it's a big help. Now just to figure out how to get the parts I need for he cable. Seems u may build these cables I need if so how much would a programming cable cost if u could make one for me woodygb ?

Thanks

Steve
Digipro
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 31 Mar 2018, 13:27
Location: Sheffield

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Janandsteve » 28 Jan 2019, 21:05

woodygb wrote::shifty:

Hi woody
Can you help with programming software for my wife’s mobility scooter, please.

She has the s drive d51270.06.........is this the same as s drive s45?

I need to turn off reverse beeper and alter some speed parameters.

Many thanks for your help.

Steve
Janandsteve
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 28 Jan 2019, 20:54

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 28 Jan 2019, 21:37

Sure...check your messages.

Note:- The cable build diagram has altered slightly ...the 47k resistor is now 33k.
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Janandsteve » 28 Jan 2019, 22:15

woodygb wrote:Sure...check your messages.

Note:- The cable build diagram has altered slightly ...the 47k resistor is now 33k.


Very many thanks for your quick reply, woody please see your messages.
Janandsteve
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 28 Jan 2019, 20:54

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Vik » 21 Apr 2019, 22:19

woodygb wrote: Note:- The cable build diagram has altered slightly ...the 47k resistor is now 33k.


Hi All,

Huge thanks firstly to WoodyGB and Nick for posting this!

I have been searching for technical info like this because we have been given a big runaround by a local repairer who replaced parts for a specific fault and returned the scooter with three new faults that it did not have previously, and they now refuse to do discuss the issue.

They have refused to provide me with a Technical Service Manual for the scooter.
They have sent it back with a new motor but said they had to connect the motor to the controller with reverse polarity!! claiming "all the new ones are like that" - it is also stuck in Low Speed mode and drains the batteries within six klm.

As I have electronics experience I will be able to build this cable and continue diagnosing the problems myself.

My special needs Son has a Monarch Royale 4 with the s-drive 200 controller, can I get the software to check the settings and program the controller please?

Anyone know where I may source the Full Wiring Diagram or Technical Service Manual for the scooter?
Cheers,
Vik
______________
Monarch Royal 4
Merits Cruizer 4
Vik
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 20 Apr 2019, 22:09
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 21 Apr 2019, 22:40

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Vik » 21 Apr 2019, 23:11

woodygb wrote:http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/download/file.php?id=10195

download/file.php?id=7152

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ns.d ... manual.pdf

Check P.M.


To use my sons words- you are awesome
thanks so much :thumbup:
Cheers,
Vik
______________
Monarch Royal 4
Merits Cruizer 4
Vik
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 20 Apr 2019, 22:09
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Burgerman » 21 Apr 2019, 23:57

Good to see that the mobility "experts" dont dissapoint, and are equally good over in Australia.

They have sent it back with a new motor but said they had to connect the motor to the controller with reverse polarity!! claiming "all the new ones are like that" - it is also stuck in Low Speed mode and drains the batteries within six klm.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 50319
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 21 Apr 2019, 23:59

They have sent it back with a new motor but said they had to connect the motor to the controller with reverse polarity!! claiming "all the new ones are like that"
D.C. P.M. Motors do not have a "polarity" .... they can be "handed" or timed to prefer a rotation in one direction ...but mobility motors aren't made like that .... So wire colours etc to the Motor mean bugger all... you just need to swap them around until the motor goes in the required direction.
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 22 Apr 2019, 00:14

Do not be fooled by these erroneous Motor M+ M- markings Image
The smaller S-drive doesn't have them and correctly shows just a Motor M
Image
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 22 Apr 2019, 00:32

1/2 Speed is approx 50% efficient and the best efficiency is probably about 90% of max speed.Image
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Vik » 22 Apr 2019, 00:52

woodygb wrote:
They have sent it back with a new motor but said they had to connect the motor to the controller with reverse polarity!! claiming "all the new ones are like that"
D.C. P.M. Motors do not have a "polarity" .... they can be "handed" or timed to prefer a rotation in one direction ...but mobility motors aren't made like that .... So wire colours etc to the Motor mean bugger all... you just need to swap them around until the motor goes in the required direction.


Hi Woodygb
Yes, that is true, you can reverse the wires of a DC motor without adversely affecting the motor itself - however in this circumstance the motor positive was originally connected to the terminal marked positive on the S-Drive controller, when it came back the Negative of the motor was connected to the Positive on the controller - and the "technician" said he had to do that because it was the only way to make it go forward instead of backward - it is possible that the new motor has its red and black wires connected internally in reverse to the old motor (both motors have the same model number-I took photos of the old one before it left)
- however due to the other 2 faults it now has, and the fact that the tech also said he had a hell of a problem setting up the controller - I wanted to make sure that the controller is setup correctly - also an independent tech I spoke to said the polarity can be set in the controller - to me as a (consumer electronics tech) the parameters in the controller is what needs to be confirmed first.
When they brought it back he said the front LCD display panel is causing the "Low Speed" problem and that is a different part that I would have to pay for and labor for geting that fixed- I am not convinced that the LCD display/switch panel is faulty.

This scooter has a separate rocker switch to select forward and back - with the motor connected to the controller POS to POS the forward selection makes the scooter go in reverse and vice versa. I think the tech opened the front panel and tried to reverse the wires on the switch but found that not possible(due to the type of switch) and caused the other faults or the controller is not setup correctly or a combination of both.

At this point i should also add that they also replaced the S-drive controller and transaxle when they replaced the motor - the original fault we had with the scooter was that on a hot day when the scooter traveled about 8 klm it would stop dead without warning- very dangerous for my son if he was in the middle of crossing a road. So to my mind, a heat related problem. They chose to replace those three parts - then claimed the other faults it came back with are not associated - even though they did not exist when it left our home.
Cheers,
Vik
______________
Monarch Royal 4
Merits Cruizer 4
Vik
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 20 Apr 2019, 22:09
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 22 Apr 2019, 01:03

I will say it one more time... the motor does NOT have a POLARITY....ignore all wire colours and stickers.

There are to the best of my knowledge ...AND I have just looked at the Software prog ..NO motor settings that allow you to reverse the motor rotation.
You can however invert the throttle.
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Vik » 22 Apr 2019, 01:03

Burgerman wrote:Good to see that the mobility "experts" dont dissapoint, and are equally good over in Australia.

They have sent it back with a new motor but said they hadi to connect the motor to the controller with reverse polarity!! claiming "all the new ones are like that" - it is also stuck in Low Speed mode and drains the batteries within six klm.

Hi ,
Yes, there are good and bad in all things and places! The previous technician this company had was very experienced and was a very good technician, unfortunately he retired soon after we got this scooter and their new "tech" was not a very technical in my opinion! In fact he no longer works there and went back to his old job as a Roadside Assistance person for cars. :thumbup:
Cheers,
Vik
______________
Monarch Royal 4
Merits Cruizer 4
Vik
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 20 Apr 2019, 22:09
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Burgerman » 22 Apr 2019, 01:37

I may add that a sudden stop is not caused by heat. They are programed to roll back on max amps supplied as the temp of the controller exceeds x amount of centigrade. Gradually as heat increases. And the highest heat is caused by hills. So you will gradually lose hill climbing and torque capability. No sudden stops.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 50319
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Vik » 22 Apr 2019, 11:18

woodygb wrote:I will say it one more time... the motor does NOT have a POLARITY....ignore all wire colours and stickers.

There are to the best of my knowledge ...AND I have just looked at the Software prog ..NO motor settings that allow you to reverse the motor rotation.
You can however invert the throttle.


Ok, thanks, seems the independent tech I spoke to must have been talking about a different controller, not an S-drive.
Cheers,
Vik
______________
Monarch Royal 4
Merits Cruizer 4
Vik
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 20 Apr 2019, 22:09
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Burgerman » 22 Apr 2019, 11:20

NO motor settings that allow you to reverse the motor rotation.
You can however invert the throttle.


I suggest not trying that! :lol:
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 50319
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 22 Apr 2019, 11:20

You can often do the reverse motor trick on a wheelchair... but it's not needed on a single motor scooter.
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Vik » 22 Apr 2019, 11:24

Burgerman wrote:I may add that a sudden stop is not caused by heat. They are programed to roll back on max amps supplied as the temp of the controller exceeds x amount of centigrade. Gradually as heat increases. And the highest heat is caused by hills. So you will gradually lose hill climbing and torque capability. No sudden stops.


Ok, thank you for the explanation - room for further thought and investigation!
Which I can't do until the stuck in Low speed mode - actually "Turn Speed Mode" - Flashing "L" symbol; is fixed
Cheers,
Vik
______________
Monarch Royal 4
Merits Cruizer 4
Vik
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 20 Apr 2019, 22:09
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 22 Apr 2019, 12:45

You can open up the P.C. Software and select NEW S-Drive profile ...this will load a dummy set of parameters that you can look at.

"Turn Speed Mode" is a new one on me .
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 22 Apr 2019, 13:04

I suspect that you may have a Dynamic RHINO Controller NOT a PGDT S-Drive.

https://dynamiccontrols.com/sites/defau ... ue-3_0.pdf
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Vik » 06 May 2019, 23:23

Hi again,
Since I posted last, Pride Mobility Australia contacted me about the issues and they have kindly said they would take a look at the problems for us. So that is a big gesture by them as it really is not their respnsibility but that of the local dealer who botched the job - and they have transported it from Brisbane, Queensland to Melborne, Victoria (1700 Klm) to their workshop!
I am waiting to hear back from them about it.

I am still very greatful for your help guys, as when it comes back I will be on my own when it comes to repairs and servicing - I will be keen to check out the software when I get it back but will not be changing anything, just checking and saving the settings that Pride have setup.

I took some photos before it was picked up, of the controller , etc - it is definitely an S-Drive controller - see pic at link below

You can see some videos and photos I took of the problems at:
http://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ocpp28OBlroVt83ApeZ_IRTd787aZWrU

The video relating to the current problems is "turn-speed-fault1.mp4"
Woodygb - Details of Turn Speed Mode are in the manual(on page 9) you kindly provided me in your post of 22 Apr 2019, 08:40

The vieoes and photos relating to Temperature, and stopping dead are the proof of original problem that I supplied to the local dealer.

to put this in context I have included below a snip of the email I sent to the local dealer before they took it in for "repair" and sent it back with the current problems:

---Snip relating to Sudden stop problem, Temperature ---

Hi Kavita,

Thank you for your email,

I would also like to stress that the Merits Scooter is 10 years old and cost $6000, the Monarch is 20 months old and cost nearly $10,000 - therfore should not run 8 Degrees hotter than a 10 year old motor!

We bought the Monarch when the Merits Cruizer 4 wheel, started having problems because it was 10 years old, just before buying the Monarch we had the frame fixed and then the motor brushes wore out and it had wear on the motor commutator,

We bought the Monarch so Sean could have problem free independence - we replaced the motor brushes in the Merits so we could sell it on, but then we started having problems with the Monarch so Sean used the overhauled Merits while the Monarch was being fixed - now he has to use the Merits all the time because the Monarch continues to have problems - so a 10 year old Merits scooter is proving to be better than a 20 month old Monarch

Monarch Royale motor Temp - 48.8deg - 20 months old and cost nearly $10,000 -See monarch-temp48-8.jpg
Merits Cruizer motor temp - 41.0 - 10 years old and cost $6000 - See Merits-temp41-0.jpg

- We are not happy what is being done about it?

--- END of Snip relating to Sudden stop problem, Temperature ---
Cheers,
Vik
______________
Monarch Royal 4
Merits Cruizer 4
Vik
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 20 Apr 2019, 22:09
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 07 May 2019, 00:00

9 Flash
•••••••••__•••••••••__
There is a fault within the electromagnetic brake circuit. Check all
brake and motor connections. Make sure controller connections are
secure and that the scooter is not in the freewheel mode.

This would make the Scooter STOP and if the parking brake is dragging the motor and brake will get hot.

Details of Turn Speed Mode are in the manual
NO... Turn Speed is simply referenced , but what on earth is Turn Speed Mode !?
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby mickeymoo » 09 May 2019, 19:11

Hi guys! Really enjoying reading this forum!

Just selecting a USB-TTL cable to reprogram an S-Drive controller, using the expertise shared here by woody and friends!

The FTDI FT232 is universally recommended but quite expensive from Uk sellers.
The Prolific PL2303 perhaps less popular (driver compatibility issues?)
But what about the Winchiphead CH340? Anyone tried that one? It doubles-up as serial EEPROM programmer too! https://www.mpja.com/download/35227cpdata.pdf
And finally the lesser-known SiLab CP2102 USB-TTL bridge adaptor?

Maybe try one of each?! czy :D

Image
mickeymoo
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 09 May 2019, 16:51

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby woodygb » 10 May 2019, 00:29

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
User avatar
woodygb
 
Posts: 5991
Joined: 12 Mar 2011, 18:45
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Programming cable specifically for S-Drive controllers

Postby Vik » 10 May 2019, 22:55

woodygb wrote:9 Flash
•••••••••__•••••••••__
There is a fault within the electromagnetic brake circuit. Check all
brake and motor connections. Make sure controller connections are
secure and that the scooter is not in the freewheel mode.
This would make the Scooter STOP and if the parking brake is dragging the motor and brake will get hot.


Yes that was exactly the argument I put forward to the repair company as one of the possibilities for the overheating problem - they had replaced the Elecrtomagnetic Brake under warranty for an other issue and it wasn't until a month after that we had the overheating problem and why I expected them to at least diagnose this under warranty even though it was a month out of warranty by the time we noticed the overheating problem.

Details of Turn Speed Mode are in the manual -> NO... Turn Speed is simply referenced , but what on earth is Turn Speed Mode !?


You are correct, I should not have used the word "details" - it is only a sketchy sentence at best.
My deduction from the words "(2) Take exterior turn-switch as determinant signal,(TRN as control signals)" means that there is a sensor that detects when the scooter steering is turned to a certain amount left or right, and tells the controller that the scooter is doing a turn and sets the motor speed to "L" until the steering is again within the parameters to indicate that it traveling "straight ahead"

That sketchy sentence plus the fact that I noticed on page 21, in the parts listing Item 30, is called 'Speed Sensor', which I think is the sensor responsible for that detection.
Cheers,
Vik
______________
Monarch Royal 4
Merits Cruizer 4
Vik
 
Posts: 14
Joined: 20 Apr 2019, 22:09
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PreviousNext

Return to Everything Powerchair

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cornbread, Google [Bot], ICEUK, redder, swalker and 47 guests

 

  eXTReMe Tracker