PL8 - Charger and Balance Cables Parts needed etc, ?

[ex-Gooserider]

Doesent much matter for this job.

thanks

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01J2OSKXS/ ... RBQ2LAUELL

thinking of using these XLR - - is there any reason to use the 3rd Pin ? or can i just solder the two wires and leave the 3rd alone ? the 3rd pin would be used so the chair dosnt move while charging ? if i wanted to do it this way - where do i connect the 3rd pin to - Pos Pin or Neg. pin ?

or just leave it alone and should be fine either way ?

Assuming you have a standard chair controller, and not something like a Roboteq.....

If you want the chair to be disabled when the charger is plugged in, connect the 3rd in the XLR plug to GROUND / Negative.... If you don't care if the chair is disabled or not, and are willing to chance driving off while still plugged in, leave the 3rd pin disconnected.

If you want smoke and flames, connect the 3rd pin to positive......

ex-Gooserider

[expresso]

thanks - its Neg. then - or i leave it alone - chair will be Off at home when being charged - not being used - - so just a small wire connecting both pins will do it ? nothing fancy or special

[Burgerman]

Yes. But I never do it.

[ex-Gooserider]

thanks - its Neg. then - or i leave it alone - chair will be Off at home when being charged - not being used - - so just a small wire connecting both pins will do it ? nothing fancy or special

Correct - that third pin is just a data signal, so it doesn't carry any noticeable current... In normal use with the plug disconnected, there is a 'pull-up' in the joystick pod that brings the pin high and enables the chair. When you plug in a connector wired to disable the chair, the connection between ground and the third pin pulls it low, which is the disable signal. If you hook up a programmer, (cable or hand-held) it puts a data signal on the pin which can be read and processed by the microprocessor in the pod...

As BM said, it's optional to connect it or not, and he doesn't... However if you are subject to the occasional 'brain fart' having it connected can save you the embarrassment of trying to drive off with the charger attached....

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I've actually had another thought occur to me - that might be a significant concern if doing a lithium pack / hobby charger setup... Obviously you don't want anyone attempting to charge the chair with a standard mobility brick charger via the XLR plug, as that would mean you didn't have balancing and thus risk pack damage... So how would we make it impossible for some well meaning but clueless person to hook up that evil mobility brick????

Labels and possibly even taping over the plug offer only marginal protection, as they don't stop the non-readers or determinedly stupid....

Taking the plug out (or disconnecting it) isn't the answer as we still need the plug for programming...

Next option would be possibly cutting the 24V line inside the pod, but I know that all the programming options need the ground wire for reference. I'm not sure about the USB cable, but I suspect that the hand held programmers and the factory serial cable would also need the +24V line for power (where else would they get it?) So that doesn't work either...

What I suspect might work, would be to put a medium size (1-2W) power diode in the 24V line - that would allow you to still have 24V (minus a diode drop) at the plug, and thus provide programmer power, but block the ability of a charger to supply 24V TO the batteries...

Any thoughts on this???

[expresso]

I guess if you have others doing the charging for you and you cant trust them enough or dont watch them etc, - OR - Get rid of all your Dumb Chargers - use only lithium batteries and PL 8 - cant go wrong that way - or at least the chances are less -

i always do my own charging - i have to monitor what gets plugged in and how etc, - i have to start the charge - i have only ONE Chair that has lead - my indoor chair - which only one that is plug and play with dumb charger and many times i catch them not starting the charge !!! - they plug it in and then never turn on the charger - they are good but clueless with these things - for the most part - my girls - depending which ones - they know the steps more or less - and do well for the most part - but still i need to see and make sure - i put too much effort into this to have a silly mistake happen - i stress to them all the time - when connecting and disconnecting the charge cable - last thing i want is to have the pins break if they force it to remove it - or wiggle it up and down - maybe that wont be too bad haha

you know what i mean - have to be careful with the pins removing and connecting the cable - takes me 5 hours to make - money and effort - not looking to redo a charge cable on the chair end - so i make sure to always remind them how to do it and not to stress it -

IF putting TAPE over the JS charge port dosnt stop someone - then thats a problem -

[Gnomatic]

I use the Dsub connectors on the PL8. Right before going to bed, I pull up the PL8 software screen on my desktop in my bedroom and verify the right preset is loaded. Once in bed, my aide plugs the charge cable into my chair. None of them have any issue with it - it can't be plugged in wrong.

Then they just click on the "Start" button on the PL8 software, then "Charge Only" o0n the window that pops up, then "Okay" a couple times. And the charging begins. Its only takes a few seconds. In practice, its very easy to do, and takes MUCH more time to describe than perform.

To make it easier for my aides, I was going to set up the PL8 with the minimal amount of button presses I could, have as few presets as I could, and make all presets the same, so there was never a problem. They just hit the "Enter" button on the charger some minimal number of times after plugging the chair in, and the charging begins.

I gave my aides the choice to use the PL8 software, or just the charger button. They all chose the PC control option, although had no issue if I preferred them to only use the charger ENTER button, as the process is simple, quick, and easy either way. I prefer the PL8 software method so I can see the graphs the next morning, so that's the way I've been charging my chair since I've installed the pack.

TL;DR

My aides regard charging my chair via the PL8 as a trivial process.

[expresso]

yes i agree software is better - because you can see the pop up boxes and just hit enter on charge etc,

Now if someone couldnt make a Charge Cable - or it may be easier for someone to just bypass the SubD connector - if using a ADD ON pack - you can make the power leads with XT90 end - and leave the balance cables -

then you can just connect both power leads and balance cables each time to charge - if making a SubD connector is too much work etc, thats fine also with a ADD ON - if doing that - i would at least use a extra 12 inch balance cable on the Battery end - since it will be plugged and unplugged alot - in the event it gets damaged - you can just replace the 12 inch cable and add a new one - instead of damaging the balance cable thats connected to the pack itself -

What i did to make sure the workers dont try to connect them wrong way - i put orange sticker on each SubD - so its color coded - both orange stickers should be on the same side - even though you cant connect them wrong way - but someone can sure try and in trying or forcing it - who knows - bend a pin or something -

you learn as you go - watching them do things - you can see what needs attention in the way it gets done - after some time - HOPEFULLY they should get it -

[Gnomatic]

I have my mobility chargers put away.

I don't want to disable my XLR port. I understand the concern about some well meaning person plugging in a dumb charger. I guess it just depends on your situation. For me, in my environment, putting my mobility chargers away was enough for me.

I like the idea of putting orange stickers on the Dsubs. But even w/o the stickers, none of my people have had any issue plugging in the the charger cord connector to the one mounted on my chair.

[expresso]

I have my mobility chargers put away.

I don't want to disable my XLR port. I understand the concern about some well meaning person plugging in a dumb charger. I guess it just depends on your situation. For me, in my environment, putting my mobility chargers away was enough for me.

I like the idea of putting orange stickers on the Dsubs. But even w/o the stickers, none of my people have had any issue plugging in the the charger cord connector to the one mounted on my chair.

when i started to notice my girls turning the subD one way then the other way etc, i realized they keep getting it wrong and to make it easy enough - Orange sticker on each SubD - just line up the stickers both same side - then it aligned correctly

[Burgerman]

When you consider than a typical lead battery never has more than 45 Ah removed in use, normally less, then a 5 to 8A mobility charger takes all nght. And ideally another 6 hours on top for a full charge. Its already too small.

Can you see how long a 5 to 8A mobiity charger will take with a 100 to 150Ah lithium? So you would likely spot the problem before cell balance became an issue!

My 120Ah green chair will take, 15 hours plus CV and balance... Say 16 and a bit hours.
So if you get it on charge at 1 Am (as I usually do), it wouldnt be ready till 7pm in the following evening!

Its not for nothing we are using much more powerful chargers. If you drive 3x as far theres 3x as much to put back!

[ex-Gooserider]

That assumes that you are starting from a nearly full discharge state - which can't be guaranteed unless you never fully charge the chair properly... In that best case scenario, you might not have a problem, but only if you are looking at the chair daily...

If you just had charged the chair with the PL-8 or equivalent and then our well meaning idiot plugged in the mobility brick, then you would be in trouble in a couple of hours or less (worst case...) Hard to imagine, but the worst case is what needs to be protected....

Just off the top of my head, assume you had just charged the chair, and headed out for a beer... While sitting in the pub you come down with the 'creeping awfuls', pass out, and get hauled off to the local hospital - where they plug in your chair, using the mobility brick they have around.... By the time you get into shape to realize there's a problem the pack is toast.... Unlikely but???

I could also see having backup chairs around that still had lead brick power, so not always an option to just put the bricks away....

Given that the Gods are always in the process of inventing better idiots, seems like we need to figure out ways to keep them from causing problems if at all possible....

ex-Gooserider

When you consider than a typical lead battery never has more than 45 Ah removed in use, normally less, then a 5 to 8A mobility charger takes all nght. And ideally another 6 hours on top for a full charge. Its already too small.

Can you see how long a 5 to 8A mobiity charger will take with a 100 to 150Ah lithium? So you would likely spot the problem before cell balance became an issue!

My 120Ah green chair will take, 15 hours plus CV and balance... Say 16 and a bit hours.
So if you get it on charge at 1 Am (as I usually do), it wouldnt be ready till 7pm in the following evening!

Its not for nothing we are using much more powerful chargers. If you drive 3x as far theres 3x as much to put back!

[snaker]

Is there any problem if the balance cable's total length is 2.5m (1m on the pack side and 1.5m on the PL8 side)? Is there a limit of the balance cable's length?

[expresso]

Is there any problem if the balance cable's total length is 2.5m (1m on the pack side and 1.5m on the PL8 side)? Is there a limit of the balance cable's length?

i think you fine - mines is total about 6 feet max - about 2 meters - maybe a bit less -

[Burgerman]

Shorter is better. Longer still works, with slower and less accurate cell balancing. But if you make it really long use thicker cables.