New Purchase. E-Wheels EW-38.

[Twinpanther]

I saw a post from about 3 years ago on the ew-36 but it didn't seem to go anywhere.
Found here if interested: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3154&p=41139&hilit=ewheels#p41139
I purchased a EW-38 locally for $2,195. Almost exactly the same as the 36 except slightly wider, a 700 Watt motor, E ABS Brakes and no wheelie bars for $200 more.
Same stats, except holds up to 500 lbs. I'm only half that but wanted the extra for a trailer for groceries, fishing, etc...

Here it is (The red one):


I can't give you a full review yet for reasons I'll get into shortly. But, I did go for a 10 mile ride on day one. Easily holds 17 MPH the entire trip. 90% paved/relatively flat ground. 10% off road level grassland. Handled beautifully. Grass was a bit bumpy at 15-17 MPH but nothing like my crappy Q6 Edge at 5 MPH. Arrived home and the battery gauge (for whatever it's worth) read maybe slightly under full charge. As for a 45 mile ride (manufacturer stated range) I don't know but I'll let you know in the next few weeks.

Set it to charge overnight and the next morning the charger was still red and charging after 15 hours. Called the shop up and he said to bring it in so he could test the charger and batteries. I showed up the next morning and the charger was fine but the cheap green batteries were shot. They kindly replaced them with a new/balanced set of four Duracel Ultra 12v/20ah batteries. So, I loaded it back up and was off to the house. I got home and lowered my chariot lift, hopped on to drive it off. Now, the wheels sit in a little detent to help hold it in place for transport. So, you need to give it a little throttle to get it "up and out".

Now, you might remember me briefly mentioning that the 36 has wheelie bars and the 38 does not? Well, you guessed it. The new batteries had so much extra oomph that I put her right on her back. So, there I was in the seat on my back, embarrassed and very discouragred. Called my wife and brother-in-law to me (they were on the patio within earshot but couldn't see me) and they got me up and the scooter back on three wheels.

Here is the damage:



I'll fix the basket easily enough. Called E-Wheels about a replacement on the rear panel and was told "Backordered" about 8 weeks and will cost around $100. So, instead of waiting I spent the day sanding the scratches and epoxying the cracks on both sides. It looks good. I'll bought some Gloss Black Carbon Fiber Vinyl Wrap to go over it. I'll also be doing a bit of the front to make it look better. Might eventually do the whole thing if it turns out well enough as I've never used wrap before.

Called the shop about wheelie bars and we'll get them welded on next week as well. Might as well have him add a hitch at the same time. Why the 38 doesn't come with wheelie bars is beyond me as they know the 36 will lift the front wheel without a problem.
https://youtu.be/jzbioWWbTLo?t=1m50s

I'll add more pics of the process as I go along but the wrap won't arrive till next week. Still better than 2 months though!

Here are some random pics of the inside for those curious. I'll have my own questions once I get this mess straightened out. Things like, are adjustments possible, etc...






Anyway, I love my new Mobility Device. It's legal on the sidewalk, in the stores and on the walk/bike trails even though it says no motorized vehicles allowed. It meets all the criteria of a Mobility Device which makes this perfect for me to enjoy a long ride along the canal and still stop for groceries on the way home.

Thanks for looking.

[Burgerman]

Looks interesting, brushless, 48v, so way more efficient than a 24v lead brushed powerchair. So the range will be interesting. But its going to murder batteries. They look pretty small.

[flagman1776]

While I understand that wheelies may be useful in a power chair to negociate obsticals... that is a user specific choice. I think that's a real problem in an off the shelf item. I don't know that anti-tips are the best or only part of the solution. I'd be looking very hard at the balance: the center of gravity. For starters, I'd be looking at the seat ajustment & driving with the seat full forward. Just leanning forward might be helpful on slopes. A rear shopping basket can add considerable weight... who is going to limit their purchased to the recommended 20 pounds.
I like this scooter... but... I have reservations because of this.

[Twinpanther]

They are quite small.
Approx. Dimensions: 7.13" X 3" X 6.57" for a block size of 7.13" X 9" X 6.57".
Total weight 13.3x4 or 53.2 lbs or 24.13 kg for the rest of you folks.
200 cycles at 80% discharge

Wonder what kind of Lithium conversion I could fit. There is a TON of wasted space in there used for lockable storage. Never mind answering that, LOL. I''d be too afraid of not having the electronic wizardry to accomplish such a task as much as I'd love to.

Oh, it also comes with an alarm system and remote start, LOL. I can hit a button on the key FOB and turn it on without ever putting in the key as long as I haven't forgotten to disarm the alarm system. Fun selling points but totally useless in everyday application with the exception of the alarm system.

[Burgerman]

While I understand that wheelies may be useful in a power chair to negociate obsticals... that is a user specific choice. I think that's a real problem in an off the shelf item. I don't know that anti-tips are the best or only part of the solution. I'd be looking very hard at the balance: the center of gravity. For starters, but... I have reservations because of this.

The mistake you are making is that you are lumping this in with mobility scooters. Almost every moderm motorcycle or scooter sold will flip you over the rear on anything over a whiff of throttle at lower speeds. And lower speeds meand under 70 to 100 mph on big bikes. This wasnt aimed at mobility use primarily. Many youngsters or middle aged able bodied hooligans wold love it!

[flagman1776]

I never had to worry about wheelies on my Honda Rebel 450 (1987 or so) or the Kawasaki 90 either. The 450 made my ride to work a lot of fun. I had to give them up when my hand got bad.

[Burgerman]

Well not all bikes struggle for power.

My street bikes were also my weekend drag bikes. I had turbo 1100cc bikes, with 2 stages of nitrous etc for about 10 years. 300+ BHP and wheelies in every gear like it or otherwise. I liked it!

I could leave a black line a mile long down the motorway. Or wheelie at any speed at will.

Much like this, its what happens if you bolt a turbo to a large motorcycle and wind up the boost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2EjXGJpLhg Except this guy films everything and makes me look restrained!

[Twinpanther]

Update and question.

Here is a couple pics of the repaired panel sanded, epoxied with a fiberglass strip over each side crack, more epoxy on the front, cured and all sanded down minus some wet sanding I'll do tomorrow.





Now for the question. I found this molex connector not being used. It has a Green and Black wire. Reads 11.78v with the multimeter when key is on and 0v when off. If I'm right the Black is -12v and the Green is protected ground. Can I use this to power a USB plug via the typical 12v-24v power plug with USB adapter or is there something I am missing?


As always, Thanks for the info and help!

[ex-Gooserider]

I have heard mixed stories about results when fiberglassing ABS, but hopefully it will work for you. A bike shop that I used to spend a lot of time at preferred to weld broken fairings with a hot air torch and plastic welding rods. (HF sells a unit that works pretty well) Took some practice to learn how best to set it up, and the optimal heat, etc. but they got good results and had a steady business from the weekend race warriors...

On the plug, I'd try to find out what the plug was intended for - should be on any wiring diagrams and was probably intended for some accessory you didn't get (possibly from a different model scooter?) If it was intended for a power load then using it for other things would probably be OK, but it it is for some sort of sensor, (I could imagine a safety switch to cut power if the non-existent wheely bars were loaded....) then it might cause serious problems to try and tap into it for power - worst case letting the magic smoke escape from the controller...

ex-Gooserider

[Twinpanther]

Thanks ex-Gooserider!

I used Loctite Plastic Bond with just a strip of fiberglass mesh for extra strength. It seems really strong. But time will tell.

Thank you for the info on the plug. There is literally NO diagrams for this machine that I can find. I'll ask my shop repair guy when he adds wheelie bars this coming week. Hopefully he has an answer for me. It does run my USB devices when I tested it.

Thank you for the words of caution though. I think I've done enough damage for now, lol.

Made my first attempt at vinyl wrap and there were just a bit too many curves and dips and corners for me. Not the quality I would be proud of so I ditched it and am waiting for some Black Cherry Plasti-Dip. At least I know how well that works and looks.

Twin

[flagman1776]

I succesfully repaired a crack in a cheap ABS bathtub after sanding... a layer of mat & a layer of cloth... regular marine resin. It's still holding strong but the d*mn cheap tub has another crack in it. This is the tub I'll rip out when I do an accessible shower.

[ex-Gooserider]

If you and your dealer can't find any documentation that accounts for the mystery plug, you might have to fall back on the ultimate solution and physically trace the wiring back to see where it comes from.... Depending on how the harness is built this may or may not be a major pain, but should be fairly straightforward, you basically need to look for that wire at each branch or plug in the harness. (It is considered very bad form to have the wire do a junction or color change in the harness itself)

Knowing where it goes might or might not give a definite answer about how safe it is to use, but certainly is a strong clue...
If it goes to another light socket, it is easy... Go ahead and use it...
If it goes to a switch, maybe, you need to look at the wiring diagram for the switch and what it does... But probably OK
If it goes to an electronics module / circuit board - caution, investigate further (may need to do some circuit tracing on the board, or might be able to look up the pinout for the connector....)

Looking back at the pictures of the 'engine bay' that you posted early on, I am feeling a bit more comfortable with the idea of it being a light wire, in that while I don't see the mystery plug, I do see a bunch of green wires in the bundles that go out to the sides like they are heading for lights, as opposed to the bundle I see going up past the motor like it was heading for the tiller area....

Also the way they did the sleeving on the harness it looks like it wouldn't be to bad to trace where it goes, looks like fairly loose and plenty of exposed wiring at the ends...

ex-Gooserider

Thanks ex-Gooserider!

I used Loctite Plastic Bond with just a strip of fiberglass mesh for extra strength. It seems really strong. But time will tell.

Thank you for the info on the plug. There is literally NO diagrams for this machine that I can find. I'll ask my shop repair guy when he adds wheelie bars this coming week. Hopefully he has an answer for me. It does run my USB devices when I tested it.

Thank you for the words of caution though. I think I've done enough damage for now, lol.

Made my first attempt at vinyl wrap and there were just a bit too many curves and dips and corners for me. Not the quality I would be proud of so I ditched it and am waiting for some Black Cherry Plasti-Dip. At least I know how well that works and looks.

Twin

[Twinpanther]

Again, thank you. I have the whole front end apart so I could get to the parts I want plasti-dipped. I'll have time tomorrow to try to go through like you suggested. I'll take more pics and let you know how it works out as well as the painting as I go.

If you and your dealer can't find any documentation that accounts for the mystery plug, you might have to fall back on the ultimate solution and physically trace the wiring back to see where it comes from.... Depending on how the harness is built this may or may not be a major pain, but should be fairly straightforward, you basically need to look for that wire at each branch or plug in the harness. (It is considered very bad form to have the wire do a junction or color change in the harness itself)

Knowing where it goes might or might not give a definite answer about how safe it is to use, but certainly is a strong clue...
If it goes to another light socket, it is easy... Go ahead and use it...
If it goes to a switch, maybe, you need to look at the wiring diagram for the switch and what it does... But probably OK
If it goes to an electronics module / circuit board - caution, investigate further (may need to do some circuit tracing on the board, or might be able to look up the pinout for the connector....)

Looking back at the pictures of the 'engine bay' that you posted early on, I am feeling a bit more comfortable with the idea of it being a light wire, in that while I don't see the mystery plug, I do see a bunch of green wires in the bundles that go out to the sides like they are heading for lights, as opposed to the bundle I see going up past the motor like it was heading for the tiller area....

Also the way they did the sleeving on the harness it looks like it wouldn't be to bad to trace where it goes, looks like fairly loose and plenty of exposed wiring at the ends...

ex-Gooserider

[ex-Gooserider]

Sounds good,

Say did I see you down at the biker bar recently?

ex-Gooserider

[Twinpanther]

Sounds good,

Say did I see you down at the biker bar recently?


ex-Gooserider

That's funny, lol.

No, that's those whimpy quad riders.

I live on the edge with three wheels. Well, sometimes on the edge of two wheels unintentionally, lol.

[Twinpanther]

Well, finished the repairs and plasti-dipping. Came out real well.


Can't hardly notice the broken areas at all. The color is Black Cherry and it looks great with the red in the sun.

Now, the wiring. I followed back the black/green as far as I could but gets lost under the batteries so I'm not sure where they end up but I did find these while taking the front end apart.


Wires 1 and 3 are for the left and right turn signals.
Wires 2 and 4 are for LED lights that are always on when the key is on. Same as the one in the back. Also, they have the same 12v readings.

Wheelie bars and some sort of receiver go on Tuesday so I'll see if the seller knows any info but my guess is that I'm probably safe.

Twin

[ex-Gooserider]

I would agree, same style plug and color code on the wires does make it sound like a lighting plug....

ex-Gooserider

[SweetBearCub]

Very nice job on the plasti-dipping!

- What is the actual average range, down to 30% (70% left) and then down to 50% DOD?
- I'd like to see a US MPH overlay to correct that speedometer that reads only in KMH, and we could adjust for speedometer inaccuracies as well.
- How wide and how long is it?
- Any ideas on adding anti-tips?

Thanks!

[Burgerman]

- What is the actual average range, down to 30% (70% left) and then down to 50% DOD?

How could anyone know this?

[SweetBearCub]

- What is the actual average range, down to 30% (70% left) and then down to 50% DOD?

How could anyone know this?

Driving it a known distance and speed and monitoring the battery meter?
He already gave his approximate weight.

[Burgerman]

But a battery meter tells us amost nothing useful.

If it reads 90 percent after say 5 miles, it doesent mean you are not really half way through your range.
Thats quite typical for a powerchair for eg.

Or that at 70% it will not stop a few hundred yards later as the resistance goes up and the voltage colapses faster towards the end.
The rate that you use it makes a difference too. Extreme example. If your first mile is uphill, it may drop to 50%. And recover to 60 or 70% later on for most of the trip.

The only real way to know is to drive till it stops, logging readings at say 2 mile intervals on a flat road.

[SweetBearCub]

The only real way to know is to drive till it stops, logging readings at say 2 mile intervals on a flat road.

I agree, battery meters are woefully inaccurate when it comes to the typical lead acid batteries, unless you're lucky enough to be using something like the cycle analyst, which can track power used in great detail. Not perfect, but much better.

But, driving on a known flat road and logging at intervals is fine for a rough estimate.

[Burgerman]

On lithium those are really good. On lead stil better, but not as much. Even if you measure say Ah, or watt hours, you get less before you grind to a halt some days compared to others depending on speeds/usage because of peukert / resistance increase and the point where the controller shuts down.

[Twinpanther]

Very nice job on the plasti-dipping!

- What is the actual average range, down to 30% (70% left) and then down to 50% DOD?
- I'd like to see a US MPH overlay to correct that speedometer that reads only in KMH, and we could adjust for speedometer inaccuracies as well.
- How wide and how long is it?
- Any ideas on adding anti-tips?

Thanks!

First, thank for the comment on the Plasti-dipping. Wonderful stuff if you like to change your mind on colors every couple years.

Question #1 No idea, as the other posts state. And I have no equipment to tell, sorry.

#2 I have a pretty decent app that seems very accurate. I'll check out how accurate the speedometer is and convert from there. For now it reads 28KPH at full speed on level ground (or even not so level ground) so if that is accurate that's 17.4MPH.

#3 40" axle to axle. Overall 59"Lx 29”W, 42”H. Tires are 14"x3". Seat 18"Wx21"D (but I don't recommend putting the back all the way back, lol).

#4 So far we are at a loss. The EW-36 has a bar around the inside of the inside back. The EW-38 has nothing there. Nothing behind the axle. Nothing to attach anti-tips to. So, screwed in that department so far.

[Burgerman]

Driving it a known distance and speed and monitoring the battery meter?

If I drive about one third the real range and so use about 33% of the battery power, most powerchairs still say FULL and 100%...

If the battery meter says 30% remaining, that can mean you just climbed a steep hill. Leave it 15 mins, turn it back on, and it may well say 90% full... Or that 30% may in fact mean you only have 5 mins driving left.

Battery meters do not tell you the state of charge. Mostly they tell you "not to worry" and are programmed to make things look rosy, to give the user confidence. And to tell you rather abruptly that its empty or almost so.

It simply isnt possible to determine remaining or used capacity based on voltage alone***, and they only really tell you full or too late.

***Without disconnecting the battery, waiting 24 hours, comparing to manufacturers chart referenced against temperature. And even that doesent tell you how much range is left because the voltage drop under load and the peukert affect means the chair/scooter will stop long before the battery is really at zero Ah. That typically happens between 40 and 30 percent remainning depending on specific battery/load/scooter.

[SweetBearCub]

Driving it a known distance and speed and monitoring the battery meter?

If I drive about one third the real range and so use about 33% of the battery power, most powerchairs still say FULL and 100%...

If the battery meter says 30% remaining, that can mean you just climbed a steep hill. Leave it 15 mins, turn it back on, and it may well say 90% full... Or that 30% may in fact mean you only have 5 mins driving left.

Battery meters do not tell you the state of charge. Mostly they tell you "not to worry" and are programmed to make things look rosy, to give the user confidence. And to tell you rather abruptly that its empty or almost so.

It simply isnt possible to determine remaining or used capacity based on voltage alone***, and they only really tell you full or too late.

***Without disconnecting the battery, waiting 24 hours, comparing to manufacturers chart referenced against temperature. And even that doesent tell you how much range is left because the voltage drop under load and the peukert affect means the chair/scooter will stop long before the battery is really at zero Ah. That typically happens between 40 and 30 percent remainning depending on specific battery/load/scooter.

While I don't dispute your points, I just suggested equipment he already had. We've already covered this a few posts back, when I referred to the Cycle analyst. Not a perfect solution with lead acid batteries, but better than a voltmeter.

[Burgerman]

Yes. I know. I just dont see the result of any arbitrary battery meter like the on board voltage based one readings as very meaningful.

[SweetBearCub]

Yes. I know. I just dont see the result of any arbitrary battery meter like the on board voltage based one readings as very meaningful.

First, because (as far as I know) that's all he has to measure SoC. Second, a rough real-life estimate obtained by actual use is better than arbitrary manufacturer ratings, even after considering that the meter is probably very close to garbage.

[Twinpanther]

Well, it turns out the speedometer is about as useful as any battery gauge.

After verifying the GPS program on my phone I tested and retested the scooter at top speed.

While the speedometer reads 28 KPH (18 MPH) I'm actually going 21 KPH (13 MPH).

At the two other settings (Med and Low speeds) they are correct as advertised at 10 MPH and 5 MPH respectively Even though the speedometer is of course way off.

So, at 238 Lbs (less than half it's rated weight) I Max speed at 13 MPH which is still OK for my needs.

As for distance, I'll have to find a school track or something I can ride so when the batteries die I can have assistance getting it back to my vehicle while having an accurate measurement on distance traveled.

[Burgerman]

Its lead. It will stop moving long before the battery is empty. Sit and wait 30 mins, and it will recover enough to get you back.