Radio Control

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Re: Radio Control

Postby woodygb » 28 Jun 2016, 15:12

Ted...check your messages.
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Re: Radio Control

Postby LROBBINS » 28 Jun 2016, 20:16

Do be careful. Even among Dynamic products, there are at least two different attendant control units. The one you get must match the rest of your system.
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Re: Radio Control

Postby Gedi41 » 18 Dec 2016, 06:38

Hi All! Seems you guys have a bit of knowledge on Dynamic Controls DX system and may be able to help me. I am a manual wheelchair user but have an old power chair with a DX Dynamic control on it. (DX-PMB on the PM label and DX-REMG80 on the Joystick Module). I was happily using this chair for roaming around the garden and such but now it has a fault, for the second time. The symptoms are that it turns on but the on/off power light flashes and it wont drive at all even with fully charged batteries. Last time I took it to a Dynamic rep who told me it had lost its memory. He reset it, including all parameters and charged me $100. I would like to fix the Joystick Module (JM) if cheap and easy or replace it with an RC receiver interface connected to the existing PM hence my interest in this thread. I have seen others use alternative motor controllers (eg Sabretooth) but it seems a shame to go to that expense and replace a PM that is fine.

I cant find a cheap JM or attendant JM anywhere.

The PM has 4 wires connecting to the JM. I see from this thread that they are 24v, 0v and CANH and L although someone said the old DX systems dont really have a CAN so perhaps what I want to do is not too hard?

Thanks
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Re: Radio Control

Postby woodygb » 18 Dec 2016, 10:41

If you count the frequency / number of flashes ...you will get an idea of the fault.

http://www.couldnaecare.com/dynamicfault.html
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Re: Radio Control

Postby Gedi41 » 19 Dec 2016, 03:06

Thanks Woody

the link you sent is for the Shark and my system is an earlier obsolete DX but I found the manual on the Dynamic Controls website, (listed under "obsolete product"), along with other info in this thread.

I have one flash from the single led behind the on/off button. This means a "DX Module Fault" caused by one of several things as follows:
Cause: An Auto Download has occurred.
Action < Turn the RemG80 off then on again. (NA TRIED THIS SEVERAL TIMES)
Cause: The RemG80 is not correctly programmed.
Action < Try reprogramming the RemG80.
Cause: Connection between DX Modules may be faulty,
or there may be an internal fault in a Module.
Action < Check DXBUS connections and replace where
necessary. (NA TRIED THIS SEVERAL TIMES WITH TWO CABLES)

I have checked and unplugged replugged my connections and therefore assume the fault is "not correctly programmed" which is what happened a couple of years ago. The JM lost its memory/ program. The fix is to reprogram which means I need the Wizard software and connector or a HHP and connector or take it back to Dynamic Controls for another $100 that may not fix it for long. Both the Wizard and the HHP are not supposed to be sold to or used by the end user so i assume they will be expensive and hard to get hold of (think I saw one on ebay in the US for like $300USD. I am in Australia). The last alternative is to use an RC/ Wii controller with or without the existing PM.

I will probably start by talking nicely to the nearest power chair supplier to see if they will agree to reprogram my JM for less than $100. Depending on how much time I get in the next couple of months I may also go the RC route, mainly for fun and learning, using the inspiration of gcebiker, lrobbins, dialer and yourself :D
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Re: Radio Control

Postby woodygb » 19 Dec 2016, 08:32

You could simply have scrolled down the page that I linked to ...

I'm NOT sure if the R/C option will work unless the fault is fixed/identified first.
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Re: Radio Control

Postby Burgerman » 19 Dec 2016, 09:05

How come you are answering these at 7am! Normal people are sleeping :o
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Re: Radio Control

Postby Gedi41 » 20 Dec 2016, 01:54

Hi, thanks again for the info.

I did scroll down and downloading the complete DXREMG80 manual will come in handy for other queries.

If I go the RC route I will remove the Joystick Module so any fault inside it should not affect the RC control. ie I will use the original PM but not the JM.

Regards
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Re: Radio Control

Postby gcebiker » 26 Dec 2016, 12:48

With my DX system, it was a capacitor failing on the main board, seems to be a common fault after a few years.

The capacitor is part of the power supply to the control micro chip, it can be hard to find as the fault will show up many different ways.

If you can turn it off and then on again, and the fault goes away ...or goes away when it gets warm, that is one way to identify it without tools.
Well if you have tried everything else its something to check ....
Image
http://greenmobility.com.au/dynamic-controls-3/shark/rc-wheelchair-controller/
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Re: Radio Control

Postby gcebiker » 26 Dec 2016, 12:51

This cap fault, led me to purchasing a DX programmer for ...$800....YES nuts completely nuts.

Fault can be fixed for under a dollar...
http://greenmobility.com.au/dynamic-controls-3/shark/rc-wheelchair-controller/
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Re: Radio Control

Postby Gedi41 » 27 Dec 2016, 11:53

Thanks gcebiker!

Yes it did turn on OK once (out of 20 times) since the fault first occurred. Actually I work at an engineering company and those I asked also said it was most likely a capacitor (or small battery).

I can replace the capacitor without too much difficulty but presume I will then have to reprogram it anyway. :-(

Cheers
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Re: Radio Control

Postby gcebiker » 27 Dec 2016, 12:17

Na, just replace the Cap and it will be good as new, ...i found out the hard way after purchasing the programmer 'just in case'

I replaced it with a back 'high temp' cap.

Depending on your joystick it may not be that exact one, but it wont be hard to spot, it will be all 'blow out' at the top and have a brown leak of some sort most likely.

Be sure when you do take it out to clean any of the brown stuff that leaked out, it can eat away other components.
One of your electrical engineering buds should be able to sort it pretty quickly....and if in doubt, replace all the Caps...there are not many of them.
http://greenmobility.com.au/dynamic-controls-3/shark/rc-wheelchair-controller/
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Re: Radio Control

Postby gcebiker » 27 Dec 2016, 12:32

If you would like to build your own Joystick that will work with your power base ...i have done it , posts here are a rough 'How Too' viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4867&start=400#p83451

...its also a "how to burn a hole in your wallet" :)

That link in my Sig is the working prototype for it, Nintendo Wii + arduino , Dynamic Shark joystick emulator.

Ive started a new thread, for the implementation of the remote on a new chair to tow my boat...which is a few projects in the one thread but all related to the boat.
Its got more up to date arduino sketch after woody helped out with the deadband mapping bits i was wrestling with.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6503

There is enough info here i am sure to convince you that changing out a capacitor is MUCH better option than building a remote :oops: like i did but i had other uses for it beyond the original one of trying to stop the chair if my dog was behind me and i could not see her...
http://greenmobility.com.au/dynamic-controls-3/shark/rc-wheelchair-controller/
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Re: Radio Control

Postby mccu796 » 04 Jan 2017, 02:53

I am a Firearms Instructor and have been working on a project for the police range. I made a cart that was radio controlled that carried a target. Works fairly well and can travel 15 yard is 3 seconds! However only in a straight line. I use this to teach using the "Tueller Drill". A few years ago I bid on a PG drive chair that works. It has nothing but the frame, no seat, covers or batteries. I put 2 lawn mower batteries in it and it ran fine! I am fairly good with electronics and played around using Arduino/Rasberry Pi and also Zigbee. (Built a hit counter using all of that and pizeo vibration disc.) I found your website today and decided not to ""reinvent the wheel" so to speak. I want to set this up us and either the Arduino or purchase a RC to run this thing so I can make the target more realistic. Any publications/ code out there readily available? I do this to help in training and do not get reimbursed so price is an issue!
My email is DavidM@firearmsinstruction.biz (that is my website as well.)
Thanks
David
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Re: Radio Control

Postby gcebiker » 04 Jan 2017, 13:04

Hi David, we need more information.

Specifically Pictures and model numbers of your chair, PG have made a lot of different models over the years.
Searching the site with your controllers model number may bring up the info you are looking for.

If you are going to have this rig sitting in the firing line ...i guess you are confident of a persons aim...cause wheelchairs aint bullet proof... :?


Cheers
Tony
http://greenmobility.com.au/dynamic-controls-3/shark/rc-wheelchair-controller/
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Re: Radio Control

Postby Gedi41 » 08 Jan 2017, 06:20

Hi gcebiker
I pulled apart my joystick module to check for the caps that might need replacement. It looks more tricky than I expected as mine is quite different to yours and the caps are small and hard to get to. (The JM is a DX-REMG80). There are two, back to back, circuit boards with 4 caps on one and 2 on the other. All of the caps look OK from the outside. I am guessing the board with 2 on it is part of the display and button select circuit (the digital max speed number, leds and the buttons next to the joystick which all seem to work) so I am looking at the 4 small ones first. I assume these are part of the "memory and control" circuit that retains the settings that keep getting lost. My assumption was that one of more of the caps store charge to retain the program memory when the power is off but if this is the case replacing a cap will require reprogramming the settings.

How do I post photos here? Copy and paste doesn't seem to work.

Based on your previous posts and info it is starting to look like the best, quickest and cheapest option for me to get this chair working is to replace both the JM AND the PM with a Sabretooth or equivalent RC motor controller however this carries risks if I am to use it to ride around in. Maybe I turn this one into an RC mobile wheelbarrow or lawnmower and get another cheap chair for me to get around in on rough terrain (ie too rough for my push chair).

Thanks and Regards
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Re: Radio Control

Postby Burgerman » 08 Jan 2017, 10:05

Based on your previous posts and info it is starting to look like the best, quickest and cheapest option for me to get this chair working is to replace both the JM AND the PM with a Sabretooth or equivalent RC motor controller however this carries risks if I am to use it to ride around in.


It wont move you around and will have no usable control algo or motor compensation etc quite apart from safety.

EBay for a new joystick - they go cheap.
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Re: Radio Control

Postby Burgerman » 08 Jan 2017, 10:14

http://www.roboteq.com/index.php/robote ... 450-detail

I am using one of these. It has lots more flexibility and inputs/outputs, and much inbuilt mixing and setup options. And is powerful enough unlike the sabretooths. Accepts RC input directly. But is still completely unusable on its own as a wheelchair controller, without a complex script written by a member here, http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-con ... Script.txt , current sensors for motor compensation, and about 3 years development!

Hence the 147 pages and 3000 posts of discussion and hard work here to make it usable: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2436
A sabretooth isn't going to cut it! Takes 100A per motor really, and motor compensation, just to turn on the spot reliably on most chairs.
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Re: Radio Control

Postby Gedi41 » 09 Jan 2017, 01:13

Thanks for the info Burgerman. Much more complicated than I thought. I am surprised the 2x60 amp Sabretooth wont work. It is supposed to handle 120A per channel for a few seconds and robots up to 1000lb in weight. The battle robot guys I spoke to also did not recommend the Sabretooth. They recommended the Ragebridge 2 however this is only 2x40A continuous and to my mind has less chance of working. (My motors have 350W written on them but I am yet to measure some more useful numbers like the current under load and the stall current).

I will keep looking for a cheap Joystick module on eBay (I haven't seen any so far, at least not in Australia). Occasionally cheap chairs come up with Dynamic Control systems on them. Buying a complete new chair may be the cheapest solution for me.
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Re: Radio Control

Postby Burgerman » 09 Jan 2017, 02:23

Stall current typically quite low, at around 120A.
The problem is this.
a: Mixing and control algo, has to be way way different from the garbage that a typical Roboteq or other mainstream robotics controller does. Trust me here. I have the T shirt, wore it out! So unless you figure that out its a non starter. Have you seen how badly all the bots on the TV Robot Wars steer? The can either turn, or go. And when decelerating they turn and tighten up... And the reason they spin on the spot at high speed is because they NEED that much turn rate to be able to initiate a turn at all.

b: When you have a typical 6 or 8 mph powerchair, and you set up a sensible turn rate of say 30% so that rotation on the spot is at a sensible speed, then you have a 30% pulse width at full "turn" stick. And that wont work because sometimes a 100A is needed to Start a turn. Worse, You may want to turn slowly. That may need a 10% pulse-width. Or 10A stall...The chair needs to turn, but slowly. But it doesn't move because its drawing 10A... Hence Motor LOAD compensation. That gives it maybe 100A to initiate the turn, and then drops it back to a 10A level once turn has started so you turn slowly with a small stick movement in a controlled fashion.. It works on every slope, acceleration, deceleration and turn. Non of the robotic controllers do any of that... So your chair wont turn, or stalls against a slope at low speeds etc. Result, unusable!
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Re: Radio Control

Postby ex-Gooserider » 10 Jan 2017, 03:30

Welcome... One of our members, WoodyGB has come up with an Arduino based unit that splices in between the actual joystick can and the rest of the joystick wiring. He sells them, or has enough info on line to roll your own... His design is specific to certain controllers, but can be modified to work with most units... There is a thread on it that is pinned near the top of the forum.

Woody's unit along with an RC transmitter and receiver setup will give you the ability to make the chair do pretty much whatever you want it to...

ex-Gooserider


mccu796 wrote:I am a Firearms Instructor and have been working on a project for the police range. I made a cart that was radio controlled that carried a target. Works fairly well and can travel 15 yard is 3 seconds! However only in a straight line. I use this to teach using the "Tueller Drill". A few years ago I bid on a PG drive chair that works. It has nothing but the frame, no seat, covers or batteries. I put 2 lawn mower batteries in it and it ran fine! I am fairly good with electronics and played around using Arduino/Rasberry Pi and also Zigbee. (Built a hit counter using all of that and pizeo vibration disc.) I found your website today and decided not to ""reinvent the wheel" so to speak. I want to set this up us and either the Arduino or purchase a RC to run this thing so I can make the target more realistic. Any publications/ code out there readily available? I do this to help in training and do not get reimbursed so price is an issue!
My email is DavidM@firearmsinstruction.biz (that is my website as well.)
Thanks
David
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Jazzy Select 6
Quickie Q-7
Invacare Mariner
Want to make / get a better chair, ideally one that stands.
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Re: Radio Control

Postby gcebiker » 19 Jan 2017, 13:40

Gedi41 wrote:Hi gcebiker
I pulled apart my joystick module to check for the caps that might need replacement. It looks more tricky than I expected as mine is quite different to yours and the caps are small and hard to get to. (The JM is a DX-REMG80).


I have one of these JoySticks on my 'Roller M1' . I am working on getting it to run RC by hacking the data bus, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6503&start=40#p95554 , however that project has taken a back seat to getting the boat itself finished.

I have about 6 weeks to catch what i can before the commercial fishing season opens and our local broadwater gets netted dry...so i have been focusing on getting the boat 'disability ready'.

At the very least i will see if i can open mine up, take some pictures and point you to the likely cap that needs replacing.

I will also see if Woody's RC Joystick interface he has made will plug in easy,

i have one here but its on another chair atm, here is a video of it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSqNKha ... kA&index=5

Woody has some better videos over on the build thread for it.
http://greenmobility.com.au/dynamic-controls-3/shark/rc-wheelchair-controller/
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Re: Radio Control

Postby kaban » 17 Nov 2019, 12:25

Hello,

I have been trying to programm my Invacare Kite with a DX2-REMB-ASC2 Controller + Joystick. I have already built the board from Anubis801. Sadly the Wizard5 programm(thanks to woody) can't connect to the Controlling unit. The Joystick has only got a charging connector with 3 Pins. I tried to connect the board over Hardware COM-Port on PC and through an Arduino(TX & RX Pins). Sadly no success. Do I need a DWIZ-Adapt? Thank you in advance.

Greetings from Germany
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