Programming Otto Bock C2000

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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby Burgerman » 18 Sep 2018, 23:06

0.057 ohm, 57mOhm but you are then supposed to add some for cables, say 40mOhm, and then set .6 or .7 of that according to pg. Idealy you need a GOOD low impedance capable meter. I would still suggest the batteries.

Or possibly a global OEM level scaler as in the Dynamic software. In that theres a turn and forward and reverse scaler. Set to 25%. If you set it to 50% you double the acceleration that a user setting of 100 has. Maybe theres a similar thing available in the curtis instruments software. I would like to look throught the settings file here! Hopefully you are not refering to the one above? *** There are also settings fo smoothing speed change transitions that cause delays when you hit go! And additional settings that speed up or slow down initial starting and stopping.

Scrap most of that. It has very few settings! Just looked at the file above.

*** the one above has forward acceleration set very low, also has 20% deadband, also has 30% tremor damping... Just to begin with. Thats like pushing go and then waiting for a bus to turn up.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby max78 » 19 Sep 2018, 08:17

I have two motors and using both channels. I think the motors should be strong and low ohm.

It’s not my config file.
I have all Accel at 100%, Decel at 90%, Power at 100%
Deadband at 10%, Tremor at 0%
and 80mOhm

It Brakes twice as hard as it Accelerates. About 0,4g Acceleration und 0,8g Decel.

Yes it’s my problem that there are only very few settings shown. In the parameter file are much more. I think the other will need higher access level.
I’ll try if I can change some of this. (But it will take time to get the adapter)
From the technical data the controller is really good, but if there are no settings it’s a big problem.
I don’t know if it has combined or each channel 130A?

Roboteq would be best, but in combination with a joystick it’s a lot of work and not really cheap. The Brushless version would be best, but I don’t know any motor with gearbox….

Better batteries would be great. But I think it’s not the main problem. I have MK Gel.


Thanks, Max
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby woodygb » 19 Sep 2018, 08:25

The T74 motors mOhm's can be calculated from their stall amps.

Image

24v divided 210 amps = 114 mOhms then add a bit for the wiring.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby Burgerman » 19 Sep 2018, 08:50

If thats correct then they are not very low impedance motors. Not my choice. Are you sure thats measured at 24V (looks like 12). Because that means that when you hit "go" and jam the stick forwards, you wont get max torque until the pulsewidth has climbed to the controllers 50% point. So is set to go from 0 to 6mph in say 3 seconds then you will wait at least 1 second before much happens. Thats the same as many 2 pole motors.

Heres the thing.

I can feel the affect of BRAND NEW FULLY CHARGED MK batteries, as like an elastic band. I dont like MK batteries because they will not allow me to have good turn or control, or good acceleration once the chair is programmed to respond instantly. It feels as if the joystick is "unreliable"... Doesent go where or when I tell it. So for me, MK are rubbish.

Swapping those for a set of Odyssey, makes a huge difference. Esp so after an hour of hard use. But you refuse to accept this. I know that this is one big part of your problem. I can make the battery voltage drop by 5 or 6 volts down to 18V with one tiny hop, as shown on that video above. If I do this for 10 or 20 hard turns and accelerate between turns, or 10 mins or darting about as you do in soccer, then they continually drop to 16V at every turn, and every acceleration. Why does that matter? Because the moment the controller sees these 16 to 17V drops it REDUCES power automatically to protect the battery, and to be sure it remains in "control" to be safe. (not black or brown out). You will be seeing that happen continuously.

I KNOW that you will be getting way less than max power after the first 2 seconds of use. Lead batteries are rubbish. Odyssey have HALF the voltage drom under load than MK. Thats because they are half th impedance. And MK are better than most others. Lithium are way way better here! No peukert.

And yes:

Yes it’s my problem that there are only very few settings shown. In the parameter file are much more. I think the other will need higher access level.


Its a basic control system. If thats REALLY a OEM level tool you have, then thats it. You dont have access and wont get access to anything better. Although I have seen Curtis instrument controllers with very in depth settings that went way further. That is only part of your problem though.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby max78 » 19 Sep 2018, 09:06

Thanks, a lot for all the information.
Which controller and motors and gearbox do you recommend?
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby Burgerman » 19 Sep 2018, 09:45

Motors, anything with around 40 to 45mOhm impedance. And any controller with a lot of programmable parameters. Maybe 120 r-net but beware of temperature adjustments. You cant raise the temp foldback temp so you will need a good fan aimed at the side where the cables are. But you need that fan anyway. And so low peukert, low impedance batteries.

Although there is a tiny delay on the r-net too. Thats the speed the ones and zeros get processed before the stick movement results in some action. But it still what I would go for.

P.S. Counter intuitive info...
The lower impedance the motors are, the less trouble they give the battery. So a motor with a very high stall current, (Remember Amps = torque) will actually take less Amps at the battery. A motor with 40mOhm takes HALF the battery amps at the same torque level, same acceleration level, as an 80mOhm motor does... Which is why I know your MKs wont keep up. If you want to understand why that is feel free to ask. As it takes a lot of writing, so new post!
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby woodygb » 20 Sep 2018, 08:48

curtis hacked.jpg
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby Burgerman » 20 Sep 2018, 08:55

Thats what I was talking about. He doesent seem to have that, aparently, hence:

If thats REALLY a OEM level tool you have, then thats it. You dont have access and wont get access to anything better. Although I have seen Curtis instrument controllers with very in depth settings that went way further.


Above...
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby woodygb » 20 Sep 2018, 09:00

Markus has discovered a way around altering the hidden parameters ..this is HIS modified file.


Note:-
There are 11 distinct valid access levels, many of which are copies with less access than the full level.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby Burgerman » 20 Sep 2018, 11:22

Where? The image? Or missing link?

There may be 11 levels. Some are between the 4 allowed by the software (user, dealer, service, oem) and there are some that are intended for curtis only, and that change stuff like servo/dual or single channel use, or that change controller scalersettings and a load of stuff that are beyond anyone but the curtiss electronics/programmer dude that was the designer...

Which we dont normally get access to. Probably a good thing if not used with much care!
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby Larsen » 02 Jan 2021, 13:45

Hi

Sorry for posting in this old tread.
I am new to the world of Powered Wheelchairs. I have a wife that resently started to use one.
She has a OttoBock c2000 RWD and power servo on the front wheels. It is a bit tricky to steer, because it joystik is very sensitive.
I bought a cable of Ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154269663991 ... 4269663991 that is opto-isolated. The seller has tried to help me out, but i keep getting the error: Connection failed or a message with checksum error.
Its the new software 4402 that i have running. I also have 4401, but it is missing something, because it does not registrer the cable.

Do any of you know if it might be because of the cable og the version of software, that could be the reason. I saw Woodygbs post regarding the software versions and was also thinking if that could be the problem.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby rover220 » 02 Jan 2021, 13:52

i dont think that is the correct cable.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby woodygb » 02 Jan 2021, 14:02

Its the new software 4402 that i have running. I also have 4401, but it is missing something, because it does not registrer the cable.


When you first run the later 4402 software it should define a specific USB cable called a Curtis 1309....the Ebay cable is more than likely a "clone" ( using the same VID and PID plus some added coding for the access level ) of the Genuine 1309.

Revert back to the 4401 and I'm fairly certain that the early software will now recognise the Ebay cable.

HOWEVER ...as Rover say's it is the wrong programming cable for the OTTOBOCK C200.

Read this thread from the first post.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby woodygb » 02 Jan 2021, 14:27

Here are some Otto Bock and EnAble50 files / manuals for downloading from my collection.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkMTZUw5KF1e5mKUTzq ... R?e=za89cg
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby woodygb » 02 Jan 2021, 14:39

enable50 pin out.png
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby Larsen » 02 Jan 2021, 15:32

I was also expecting that it probably was a cable issue. I ordered the usb-can adaptor from Aliexpress this morning. The one Woody linked to.

Thanks for the documents. There is a lot of info I have been searching for.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby Larsen » 30 Jan 2021, 13:24

Hi Again.

Now the USB-Can A1+ has arrived from China. It is a lmdz.
I have a problem with that windows does not generate a com port. It stays in other devices as: CP2101 USB to UART Bridge Controller.
I found a driver on Silicon Labs home page. It generated a Com port, but FT_Prog could not detect it.
Is there an other way of setting up the com port. Is there an other driver that i could try.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby woodygb » 30 Jan 2021, 13:32

You seem to be a bit mixed up with the instructions and Com types.

FTProg is used to alter a FTDI USB cable to make it work with a Curtis control system that uses SERIAL communications and you need to invert the signals with FTProg.

The LMDZ A1 USB CAN requires just the modified files.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2757&p=87375&hilit=LM_USB.rar#p87375
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby Larsen » 30 Jan 2021, 15:06

Hi
This is the adaptor i got.


USB-CAN A1.jpg
This is my can-usb adaptor


This is what shoves up in device manager. There is no Com port.

Enhedshåndtering.jpg
This is what shoves up in device manager.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby woodygb » 30 Jan 2021, 15:43

The driver has not installed correctly.

http://microzed.org/sites/default/files ... de_1_2.pdf

Unplug the A1 CAN ...UNINSTALL the driver using Device Manager.

Restart your computer

Download https://www.silabs.com/documents/public ... rivers.zip

Unzip and re-install the driver.

THEN plug in the A1 CAN.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby Larsen » 30 Jan 2021, 17:01

Hi.
This made the Com port to shove up.
But sadly it is still not possible to connect to the A1 adaptor with FT-prog. Is there a certain bitrate I have to set up, for the connection to work. Or any other settings that has to be set up.
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby woodygb » 30 Jan 2021, 17:11

Why do you want to use FT_Prog?

FT_Prog is not wanted or needed with the A1-CAN
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby woodygb » 30 Jan 2021, 17:45

You download and install the files that I have linked to and put them in the correct places in the 1314 programming directory...

Then plug in the A1 CAN

Image
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Re: Programming Otto Bock C2000

Postby Larsen » 31 Jan 2021, 16:06

Thank you very much Woodygb. :clap :worship

I had it completely mixed up with the way of setting up my other cable. Witch is Serial.

I failed to get the 4402 to work and did as you wrote and used the 4401 and pasted all the 3 files, where they should be.

It all works now. :dance :clap
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