PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 18 Nov 2017, 20:22

Burgerman wrote:Hate the damned things.



I see. :) :fencing
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 18 Nov 2017, 20:57

But thats dumbed down and does not allow the detail and info we have now. So its likely :thumbdown: banghead

Like all safety nazis, they think they know better. Judging by the hopeless presets for LiFePO4 and the even worse lead ones its all very backwards to anyone that does understand what they are doing.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 18 Nov 2017, 21:02

Hate the damned things.


I charge my cheap plastic disposable phone every month, weather it needs it or not. And I drop it on the drive or run over it in the house regularly. Just bounces and pings out somewhere!

Try that with your rubbish glass screen/crap camera/computer/battery eating gadget? :fencing :clap

The years of marketing speak has worked on you. But not me. A triumph of marketing over practicality. $$$
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 18 Nov 2017, 22:34

I put a cheap case on mine. Drop it often and run it over looking for it. Its fine, never dented/cracked a single one. Smarphone's are a jack of all trades and master of none. But super convenient. Is the camera as good as my DSLR? Not close it terms of image quality. But its one I ALWAYS have with me. So it gets much more use. In terms of AVAILABILITY, it beats the pants off my DSLR. Is it a better flashlight than the ones I have laying about the house? Nope. But its the one I ALWAYS have on me. So it gets a lot of use. GPS? Got it in my pocket. Level? Same. Check email, SMS? Yep. Google Assistant? Built in. I can control more and more of my house by simple voice as I add compatible devices like lights, garage door opener, and MUCH MUCH more.

The list goes on and on .....

I go all day on a single charge, amd charge at night, unless using GPS. In which case I keep my phone charged up via a charger that runs off my chair's battery. So battery life no issue at all.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 18 Nov 2017, 22:55

Colour me unconvinced. I have one. I just decided a simple proper phone works tons better as a simple phone. Thats why I bought a phone! You have been marketed to and think you need all that battery sucking tat added on... You dont. It just makes the phones primary purpose much worse. And more expensive.

Its more available as a camera. But as soon as I look at the results on a proper screen, I delete them regardless. So whats the point. Same with web browsing. way too small, frustrating things. All they do well is break, cost, and frustrate and need charging daily... If I link even to a shrunken photo like this one:
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-con ... air-11.jpg the best you can do is zoom into little bits of it. Or look at a low res non detailed tiny image. Hopeless.

E.G the app for phones for this charger. I wouldnt even bother downloading. Screen too small, too frustrating to bother with. And because of this tiny screen it WILL be dumbed down like its phone users. I would put money on it. :cussing
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 19 Nov 2017, 01:19

Burgerman wrote:
E.G the app for phones for this charger. I wouldnt even bother downloading. Screen too small, too frustrating to bother with. And because of this tiny screen it WILL be dumbed down like its phone users. I would put money on it. :cussing


Not worth even trying the phone app till the full feature set is implemented. I hope the PC CCS is full featured, but I have my doubts as well. On the new charger they added a usb port, touch screen, which is ok, and bluetooth which is okay I guess, But if they're going to do all that, why not add a wifi interface??? :cussing
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 19 Nov 2017, 02:19

Burgerman wrote:Colour me unconvinced. I have one. I just decided a simple proper phone works tons better as a simple phone. Thats why I bought a phone! You have been marketed to and think you need all that battery sucking tat added on... You dont. It just makes the phones primary purpose much worse. And more expensive.



I got my last one free. I always get a 6mo-1yr old model with a successor thats soon to be come out. My last one was a $500+ flaship LG. Its was already discounted by $100. And had a $200 rebate from LG, and a $200 rebate from the wireless network. By the time I got my rebates back and other ptomos, I actually got paid ~$30 to get a new phone. Deals like this on phones can be found time to time if you look for them, at least here. Just need to stay about 1 gen behind the latest and greatest.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 19 Nov 2017, 12:35

Chinese phones. On that chinese ebay thing... 3.8Ah lithium battery, 6 months standby, minimum. And waterproof, shockproof, rubberised, use as a usb chargr if you want to charge your smart/sad phones! SMS and phone services only, bright clear small screen, real keyboard. 25 dollars delivered...

Flush it, drop in your beer, park on it, dont charge for 5 months. Still calls your carer as needed in emergency. :joint
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 19 Nov 2017, 17:47

I at one time had a phone w/ physical keyboard. As a quad I couldn't really use it well, very difficult. With my current phone, I either use a PC keyboard when in front of my desktop(there's an app for that, works well), or just use the voice recognition to type out my message. It works well enough for me.

To each his own, though.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 19 Nov 2017, 17:58

As for getting in contact with carers when in a bind, I always have redundant ways for that. I have both Amazon Echo and Google Assistant. Both can get hold of anyone on my contacts list just by voice. Also I have a stand alone "I've fallen and I can't get up" system. It has a base station that sits on the floor and connects to cell towers and calls out if needed. I wear a button on my wrist that activates it. Also trained my dog to hit the button on the base station itself from every room in the house. He's good at it. I've had too many close calls, and learned the hard way for this type of thing redundancy is key.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 19 Nov 2017, 18:48

thats great - i am in the learning phaze how to have backups ready -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 21 Nov 2017, 00:31

I just got my New spare pl 8 - and i got a few extra cables for the PC software - i connected the charger and will start to use the new one - boxed the old one to save - i know that one works - will have to use new one to make sure

i noticed the cable for the PC - the new ones - wires are thinner and seem like it was made with less care as compared to the older ones -

look at the pictures - as long as they work - its fine - but to see that - i feel as if they already gave up caring about the older PL 8 and anything with it already -

will power it up first time in a while - set up my presets etc, and charge - tomorrow i get the New Used ebay PSU 24v 75A unit - lets see how that works out - will connect it tomorrow also - and save my current 12V as a spare - -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 21 Nov 2017, 00:31

bottom pic is the older one - thicker nicer wiring

middle pic is the new one - thinner - looser wiring -


top is both -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 21 Nov 2017, 00:36

You wont need those soon!
I am going to show you how simple it is to fit a BlueTooth board inside with super simple connections. For £2.

Then you can connect from any computer or laptop in your house without any wires... :clap As soon as I get off this bed. Just switch on, start program.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 21 Nov 2017, 00:51

Burgerman wrote:You wont need those soon!
I am going to show you how simple it is to fit a BlueTooth board inside with super simple connections. For £2.

Then you can connect from any computer or laptop in your house without any wires... :clap As soon as I get off this bed. Just switch on, start program.



well see how simple it is for me - i got a few extra in case of the cables - i wont like it without watching it on PC
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 21 Nov 2017, 01:01

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HM-10-Blueto ... Swv0tVcfP7

Yo need one of these with up to 100 meters range. You can get cheap BT modules for 99p but these work well!

You need just 3 wires, 1 diode. And a little soldering. And a sticky pad to mount it inside the case.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 21 Nov 2017, 01:44

well see - when time comes - i need very specific instructions and parts list etc. - going to test new charge now -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby ex-Gooserider » 21 Nov 2017, 02:53

Looking at the new unit, I see some stuff I like, other stuff that is a mixed bag -

Using a JST-XH connector for balance instead of the JST-PA - GREAT! The JST-XH is less fiddly to make, and supports AWG 20 wire, so stronger and more current capacity, or allows longer charge cables...

Supposedly has built-in Bluetooth and USB - I've always wondered why they couldn't have built that into the current charger - seems like a significant design defect in an otherwise great product to need an external adapter...

What looks like a decent size LCD screen - IF (and it's a BIG if...) the software allows it, I could see this as possibly letting one use the charger w/o needing to be connected to a PC - at least for normal charging. Certainly more informative than the current two line dot panel...

Bump thing - OK for model people, perhaps, totally useless for me unless possibly one could make custom tags that you programmed for each thing you wanted to charge....

The other question is whether or not there might not be a better alternative coming out next week - I remember being advised at one point to stock up on Hyperions - just before the PL-8 was discovered....

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 21 Nov 2017, 11:16

Using a JST-XH connector for balance instead of the JST-PA - GREAT! The JST-XH is less fiddly to make, and supports AWG 20 wire, so stronger and more current capacity, or allows longer charge cables...

Does not support "FMA wiring mode" so no balance wire ONLY connection, as it cannot charge down the balance wires at up to 3A. Which is very useful and I do this all the time.
Supposedly has built-in Bluetooth and USB - I've always wondered why they couldn't have built that into the current charger - seems like a significant design defect in an otherwise great product to need an external adapter...

But only seems to connect to your phone. Its easy to retro fit the PL8 anyway. And it has comprehensive software. Not the dumbed down (we think) version you must buy from the windows APP store...

What looks like a decent size LCD screen - IF (and it's a BIG if...) the software allows it, I could see this as possibly letting one use the charger w/o needing to be connected to a PC - at least for normal charging. Certainly more informative than the current two line dot panel...

The screen is just the Bump Controller. Of limited use, nowhere near as useful as the CCS software.

Bump thing - OK for model people, perhaps, totally useless for me unless possibly one could make custom tags that you programmed for each thing you wanted to charge....

Quite... I never seem to charge the same thing in the same way twice. So useless.

The other question is whether or not there might not be a better alternative coming out next week - I remember being advised at one point to stock up on Hyperions - just before the PL-8 was discovered....


The PL8 existed alongside the Hyperion. The difference was that while hyperion LISTENED and fixed the lead algo, and the lithium phosphate algos, so the thing became useful, the PL8 flatly ignored any contact. EVENTUALLY I bought one, and embarassed them into fixing a few things that made it useful for lead and LiFePO4. Including widening the point where the charger gave an error with a cell gap of over 150mA which happens a lot on big LiFe packs. And adding 3.500v balance start, adding a up to 8s charge without balance, etc. And widening the voltage error limits and time allowed for CV etc for lead so it could be set in the way we needed. And 4 or 5 other changes to firmware/preset limits etc. Only THEN it became useful to us. What worries me is that all this will be another pain in the ass or impossible to get sorted with the new ones... It took 2 years last time. Details matter.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby robert97 » 21 Nov 2017, 19:19

I've had intermittent pl8 CCS problems since I first started
charging lithium 7S5P packs, Headway 38140S in August. I've
used 2 different pl8, 2 different laptop computers, and 2
different FUIM3 USBs. the common problem seems to be the 24v
50A Power Supply, PS24V50A-BL-US from revoElectrics.

The symptom is that the PC with CCS disconnects
from the pl8 intermittently. to restablished connection
sometimes unplugging the USB connection is enough, sometimes it
requires a full reset of the pl8, the laptop and the USB.
And sometimes the reconnect just doesn't work at all.

I found that if I use a big 12 volt gel battery as a power supply that
everything is stable and works fine. So my workaround is to
use a 12 volt gel leadacid battery to charge my lithium pack.
But of course, it doesn't have enough power to complete a charge.

I relayed this information to revolectrix and they sent me a
new power supply. it seemed to work for a few days but then
experienced the same intermittent disconnection problem. If I
go back to charging using 12v gel lead acid as power supply
everything works fine.

I was surprised that almost no one else seems to have this
issue. My current thinking is that I'm charging a 7 Series
pack so the charging voltage is 23-25 volts which is the same
as the power supply voltage. Therefore the pl8 might need to
alternate between buck and boost. Maybe flopping buck boost
at a high rate puts noise on the serial FUIM connection to the
computer and causes it to disconnect. Most others on the forum
are charging an 8 series pack which always would be in boost
mode with this 24v power supply therefore will not experience
this problem.

The intermittency of the disconnect might be related to the
state of charge of my 7S5P packs. Ie, if the pack is down
30Ah, the pl8 might stay connected, but if the pack is down
5Ah the problem might occur.

A friend is bringing over a 30 volt power supply so we'll see what happens.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 21 Nov 2017, 19:25

It will work. 24V is right in the problem zone for 7S. It will try to start in buck mode and as soon as volts rise try to go to boost. As it does so the volts fall and back to buck...

Although that does not explain the PC disconnect. The FUM thingy is opto isolated. As is your laptop on battery.

Why are you using 7S? Its too low for any 24v system?
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 21 Nov 2017, 23:01

just got my new used ebay charger using it now so far so good nice built also 75A 24v
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 21 Nov 2017, 23:29

Looks OK. Does it work?
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby robert97 » 22 Nov 2017, 00:01

i use a pair of 7S5P packs for 46 volts to roboteq.
the pair fit into permobil C350 with small modifications.
8S would be much harder to fit.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 22 Nov 2017, 00:22

Burgerman wrote:Looks OK. Does it work?


yes just finished up and works fine - first Use so far - its nicer than i was expecting - - given all those high price models - this is worth a shot if you can find them -

for some reason - they show a ton of 12V models - and not many 24V - on ebay - i found another one - but the cost was too high and only 47A -

this one is 75A - 24v - nice connectors also - can use it as a 12v or 24v PSU -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 22 Nov 2017, 01:02

47A is fine.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 22 Nov 2017, 01:07

Burgerman wrote:47A is fine.


ok good to know - but it was still same setup - used server models and costed alot more - just had a nice wrapper over it -

i think it was called MaxAmps - something like that -

this one is bare looking and its fine with me - has a nice front with the connectors - 12v and 24v outputs - cant complian - if it holds up

90 day warranty - the other one 30 days -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby steves1977uk » 22 Nov 2017, 14:32

expresso wrote:just got my new used ebay charger using it now so far so good nice built also 75A 24v


The only reason it's limited to 75A is because it's 110v. Plug it into a 240v source and you'd get the full 2400 watts. Those PSU's are 12v 100A each (1200 watts) :thumbup:

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 22 Nov 2017, 16:44

Ok good to know - its more than enough for what i do with it anyway - i can run the PL 8 at full power and have left over - i keep the charger at 50A supply - and i can easily charge at 35A if i need too that way -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby robert97 » 24 Nov 2017, 15:49

recall, when using 24v 50A Power Supply, PS24V50A-BL-US from revoElectric
to charge my 7S5P packs, the the PC with CCS disconnects
from the pl8. maybe caused by buck and boost oscillations.

using my friend's 15v 40A Power Supply, the problem stops.
so i need to buy a Power Supply.

is there an advantage buying a 30v supply over a 15v supply?
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