PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 01 Dec 2018, 18:34

Yes set that to off or no or whatever.

When charging at a low 3.500v CV the balance also set to 3.500 then it doesent begin. It only balances those cells that exceed this figure. So you COULD set the balance to begin at 3.400V but at high charge rates thats too soon and causes problems. So probably best to choose to balance only at CV so swith off/NO or whatever that option says.

Set it to on or balance entire charge only is charging at 3.525, 3.500, 3.575, 3.600V. To BEGIN at 3.500V.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 01 Dec 2018, 18:49

Thank you. I will see what the graphs look like following these changes.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 01 Dec 2018, 18:50

They will be perfect.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 02 Dec 2018, 18:30

Yep that fixed the issue. :thumbup:
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby snaker » 03 Dec 2018, 01:36

I tried the new preset (with Balance only at CV). The balancing stage seems terminated sooner (about 15 minutes).

LiFe150 Volts.JPG

LiFe150 Amps.JPG
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 03 Dec 2018, 02:57

How big is this pack?
What was the mA when it ended charge?

If it is reaching your existing setting, before stopping then you need to reduce the CV termination current. But if it is:

a) balanced
b) reaching the correct current, thats charged!

But I notice that its not balanced, and that its going to less than your 3.500V by the look of things.

Send me the graph file... Is this a repaired charger? May be a calibration thing.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby snaker » 03 Dec 2018, 03:33

The pack is 150Ah and the PL8 is the new one I just bought.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 03 Dec 2018, 03:56

I can open that for .1 of a second then it crashes and vanishes!

What was the CURRENT where it ended?
And what is set in your termination mA?

Set it to half that value, see what it does. And still too fast? Set it lower still.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby snaker » 03 Dec 2018, 04:19

I used the preset that you posted above. In the preset the termination current is 180mA. I saw the charging current was under 200mA when ended. I will lower it to 100mA.
download/file.php?id=9657

I tried to download LiFe150.CP8.ZIP, removed .ZIP and opened it. It saw it was opened normally on my PC.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 03 Dec 2018, 10:59

Even setting it to say 100mA is OK. And if your battery easily reaches it, set lower still. Also try 1 charge to 3.650V as it will more thoroughly balance the cells. Since thats an overcharge.

I tend to charge to 3.550V.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby steves1977uk » 03 Dec 2018, 12:28

I can open that for .1 of a second then it crashes and vanishes!

What was the CURRENT where it ended?
And what is set in your termination mA?

Set it to half that value, see what it does. And still too fast? Set it lower still.


Snaker's PL8 graph opens fine for me BM :? I removed the space before the .CP8 so the file says Life150.CP8 instead of Life150 .CP8

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 03 Dec 2018, 13:13

Does here when I do that.

Heres why we cant just let it balance from 3.400V instead. If you start balance early, it does the opposite! There are times when the highest cells, are the least charged. And there are times when adding power to a cell REDUCES voltage. And the opposite is true. So trying to balance at these ties actually unbalances the cells. For e.g. trying to balance during the first part of this charge, would unbalance the battery. Heres 2 graphs.

Charging my BM2 chair. 120Ah pack. Note that as we charge the voltage begins by FALLING. And so adding power REDUCED votage. So trying to balance would take power from the higher volt cells (the least charged!) and put it into the lowest cells (which are falling in volts as we charge.

For E.G. we would have added power to the ORANGE trace. Which actually is already the most full cell. If we have patience and wait a while for the charge to continue. So that would have resulted in a buch of cells that were now unbalanced at the top...

Orange trace is low. (but really its the most full cell in Ah.) This is caused by internal resistance differences due to the cold battery. As it warms up, the resistance drops, so the voltage on charge is pulled up less by the charger.

Initially voltage falls as resistance drops. Note the ORANGE CELL 4 trace.

Image1.gif


Then as resistance has dropped, and the battery begins charging properly 45 mins later that ORANGE trace is now the highest... And we would have pulled all the others down further had we been trying to balance at this voltage. Thats why balancing must only happen at or near the top CV voltage only.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 03 Dec 2018, 13:21

And after 1 hour the BLUE cell, that was the highest, and would have been discharged at the 1A balance current, for an hour would be a huge 1Ah less charged than the rest. But it WASNT the fullest cell. It is in fact the lowest one. But it was also the coldest.

So as you can see here, the orange one is leaping ahead (it was 2nd lowest for 20 mins).
And the BLUE cells were the highest, and now they are not... And thats WITH NO BALANCE current at all.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 03 Dec 2018, 13:36

And at 1 hour 20 mins, it becomes very clear that the orange and green cells were the most charged. And so any attempt at balancing these cells before about 3.45V would have made this situation worse.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 21 Dec 2018, 03:49

To monitor , will it work if only the balance leads were connected ? :dance
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 21 Dec 2018, 04:56

Depends which cell chemistry, which profile and what charge settings are choosen.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 28 Dec 2018, 14:00

drunk2
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 28 Dec 2018, 14:02

drunk2

drunk2
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 28 Dec 2018, 14:40

@Scooterman
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 28 Dec 2018, 14:44

@Scooterman
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 28 Dec 2018, 14:59

@Scooterman
Alternatively , you may use a SB50 Anderson + a DB9 to form a charge cable .

Another user here finds that easier to make and more convenient to use .
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Scooterman » 30 Dec 2018, 10:07

Shirley - I just realised that my suggestion of a 2 metre charge/balance lead (and no connector/s on the scooter) might not be a such a good idea because the banana plugs might short out while the lead is coiled up under the seat.

I think a connector on the scooter might be best.

Perhaps I can cut a slot in the plastic body work and fit a "panel mounting" type connector like in your photos.

Anyhow I'll be guided by your recommendations.

Good luck testing the cells :thumbup:
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 30 Dec 2018, 12:02

If you are using the CORRECT banana plugs, that wont melt at 40A, they are safe, cannot short by mistake.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 30 Dec 2018, 12:28

shirley_hkg wrote: I want the length from PL8 to chair , 3 feet , 5 feet ?


Scooterman wrote:7 feet from PL8 to socket mounted on scooter


NB: I'm planning on cutting a slot in the bodywork where the white tape is, and mounting the panel half of the socket/connector there.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Scooterman » 30 Dec 2018, 12:30

Burgerman wrote:If you are using the CORRECT banana plugs, that wont melt at 40A, they are safe, cannot short by mistake.

Ah, So I could go with a coiled up charge lead and no scooter connector

Which do you think best?
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 30 Dec 2018, 12:36

Separate charge connector on chair. Coiled up leads remind me of bodgery! :argument
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Scooterman » 30 Dec 2018, 12:40

Burgerman wrote:Separate charge connector on chair. Coiled up leads remind me of bodgery! :argument

:lol:

I agree, this project is to be a bodge-free zone. :thumbup:
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 30 Dec 2018, 14:02

Scooterman wrote:Shirley Please can you also make me a 3 foot male to female extension lead for connecting

PL8 to 24V power supply

IMG_1872.jpeg

I have limited shelf space so 24V power supply will have to sit on floor.

Thanks very much :thumbup:

PS: Can you give me thumbs up when you've read this.


czy Doesn't look like an EC5 plug to me .
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Scooterman » 30 Dec 2018, 14:22

I’ll take a better photo :thumbup:
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Scooterman » 30 Dec 2018, 14:27

XT90 the plug says Shirley. :thumbup:
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