PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Power wheelchair board for REAL info!

POWERCHAIR MENU! www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair-stuff.htm

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 27 Mar 2019, 09:00

Your salsa batteries are old and sulfated. Basically junk. BUT leavethem on charge and the current will eventually drop. May take days. Lead takes a long time to fully charge if they have never been properly charged because if sulfation. It will take at LEAST 8 hours CV and dont shorten it. It actually takes 16 hours to properly charge a healthy AGM. If that current begins to rise, then lower the charge voltage...

If they are really bad, and they may be, forget the PL8.
Set the shirley POWER SUPPLY to say 27.6 to 28.0V and .5A max amps, then connect. Let it run connected to the XLR for days if needed. As a power supply. No 3 stage. Thats what it takes to desulfate or properly charge abused sulfated batteries. Check after 24 hours, then after 48, etc to see if the current has fallen from .5A to something low like 100mA. If they never do, throw them away!

If they do, USE them, and discharge to around 1/3rd or greater. And charge at TWELVE amps 14.4V with PL8 to 1000thC or 8 hours whichever occures first. They may or may not achieve that 1000thC point. It doesent matter. After 8 hours they will be as charged as you are likelyto get them. But they certainly wont if you only charge 4 hours CV!

Only precaution, with PL8, if they are old and unhealthy the current may actually begin to rise after say 4 or 5 hours. If it does, for more than say 30 mins, restart but at a lower CV voltage after 1 hour wait.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Scooterman » 28 Mar 2019, 08:37

Thank for that BM, I really do appreciate your help (seriously), and I'm sorry for the late reply.

I will enjoy trying what you suggest. I've learnt so much since joining this forum. :thumbup:
User avatar
Scooterman
 
Posts: 2018
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 10:11
Location: Wessex

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 02 Apr 2019, 09:27

Scooterman wrote:How many supply volts is PL8 happiest at?

Also I noticed that amps on shirley's psu is a bit higher than charge current. But reading what you just said I twigged that CV is higher than PSU V so to deliver equivalent power (reality slightly more cos of losses (heat, etc)) then PSU amps have to rise to balance power (amps/volts) seesaw.

Learning all the time :dance

Scooterman wrote:
steves1977uk wrote:I leave my PSU set to 30v as this is less stressful for the PL8 as less Amps are drawn. But 24v-30v is recommended SM :thumbup:

Steve

That makes sense Steve. I will up my PSU volts too :thumbup:


I was thinking that the buck & boost inverters could be used alternativey. I tried that.

However, amp would fluctuate at doubled magnitude a few times during transition, then carried on, if luckly.

I wonder what result would be , if the set current were over 20 amp. I now avoid the transition .


Burgerman wrote:Volts x Amps = watts Output.
Because Volts x Amps + 10% Approx losses = Watts input.

Remember though that the charger is both a buck and boost inverter. If you begin charging as a buck (voltage lowering) converter, and as you start to charge the battery voltage rises, it then has to stop being a buck, and switch over to boost. As it does, the battery voltage drops... So now it has to swap back. Rinse and repeat and maybe error...
Attachments
Screen 00054.jpg
shirley_hkg
 
Posts: 2426
Joined: 31 Dec 2010, 13:42

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 02 Apr 2019, 15:58

Yes thats the result. Or it gives up and you get an error!
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Furio » 04 Apr 2019, 18:22

Hi BM,

I got a slight electric shock today from the output lead of the PL-8. :o So I checked with a multimeter and found an AC voltage of approx.45. I also checked the input leads but the AC component was only 0.1~.Is it normal to have such voltage on the output leads. :argument Otherwise the PL-8 works perfectly. Please advise.

Furio.
Furio
 
Posts: 125
Joined: 24 Dec 2011, 18:10
Location: India

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 04 Apr 2019, 21:48

Never measured it unloaded. But it might well be normal. It will be high impedance, looking for a battery. When you connect a battery it will dissapear.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Furio » 05 Apr 2019, 14:23

Hi BM,

This was while charging a few Lipo cells I had salvaged from a laptop battery. :oops: The AC voltage is there when the charger delivers 500mA. :roll:
Furio
 
Posts: 125
Joined: 24 Dec 2011, 18:10
Location: India

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 05 Apr 2019, 16:08

This was while charging a few Lipo cells I had salvaged from a laptop battery.


Those are LiCo lithium ion.

But it sounds odd. I will measure mine when I get of this bed tomorow.

The answer is likely to be complex. Because it wont be a typical AC waveform (sine wave) as you think, it will be a voltage sense or battery fault detection between the gaps in the DC charging that happen all the time at very high frequency. It does not use a fixed DC voltage as you think to charge. You will need a scope or a fast multimeter that can show you the real waveform, the voltages, and so on.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby terry2 » 08 Apr 2019, 08:51

Hi all.

A friend of a friend has one of these for sale https://www.wickedcopters.com.au/revole ... er-station
He has had it for about a year, but no longer does RC car racing.

He wants £50 for it. Is that a good price and is it ok for my PL8\cells?

Thanks in advance
User avatar
terry2
 
Posts: 759
Joined: 07 Nov 2014, 12:08
Location: Solihull

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 08 Apr 2019, 09:13

Probably. Never saw one.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby terry2 » 08 Apr 2019, 10:51

Burgerman wrote:Probably. Never saw one.


You never saw one!

I think I will buy it as a backup.
It needs 2 power\kettle leads.
User avatar
terry2
 
Posts: 759
Joined: 07 Nov 2014, 12:08
Location: Solihull

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 08 Apr 2019, 12:31

Its just a couple of PC server power supplies.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby wheelie junkie » 11 Apr 2019, 14:01

Finally got around to connecting the PL8 and charging. Headway LiFeP04 cells, charge volts = 3.6 is cell 7 OK?

fast Volts.JPG
wheelie junkie
 
Posts: 560
Joined: 01 Mar 2019, 19:35

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 11 Apr 2019, 15:08

Cell 7 was the least charged. Discharge say 10Ah out, and recharge and then you will know.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 27 Apr 2019, 06:20

drunk2

Amp fluctuates a few times during BUCK/BOOST transition , even powered by a 200Ah LiFe pack.

So don't blame your power supply itsn't good enough. cheers
Attachments
Screen 00011.jpg
Screen 00010.jpg
shirley_hkg
 
Posts: 2426
Joined: 31 Dec 2010, 13:42

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Scooterman » 24 May 2019, 11:58

When i charge outside i have to put the pl8 on the scooter seat which blocks bottom vents.

It's just a scrap piece of polycarbonate. Admittedly it's not that pretty but does the job :hammer

Image

Image
User avatar
Scooterman
 
Posts: 2018
Joined: 03 Jul 2016, 10:11
Location: Wessex

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 21 Aug 2019, 09:15

Do I still need the balance leads if doing just 1 cell ?
shirley_hkg
 
Posts: 2426
Joined: 31 Dec 2010, 13:42

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 21 Aug 2019, 09:20

No. Depends on the profile used.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 21 Aug 2019, 09:58

:thumbup: :dance
shirley_hkg
 
Posts: 2426
Joined: 31 Dec 2010, 13:42

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 21 Aug 2019, 10:18

No balance, single cell
Attachments
LiFe A123 single cells.zip
(4.35 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby ex-Gooserider » 27 Aug 2019, 05:01

shirley_hkg wrote: Do I still need the balance leads if doing just 1 cell ?


As BM said, no you don't need the balance wires if doing one cell (or a bunch in parallel)...

I wouldn't advise it unless the cell was very small, but you can also charge via the balance wires alone, and not use the main power leads - but charge current is very low (max under 500mA if I remember correctly) if doing this, so only practical for really tiny batteries....

ex-Gooserider
T-5, ASIA-B
Jazzy 1100
Jazzy Select 6
Quickie Q-7
Invacare Mariner
Want to make / get a better chair, ideally one that stands.
User avatar
ex-Gooserider
 
Posts: 5126
Joined: 15 Feb 2011, 06:17
Location: Billerica, MA. USA

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 27 Aug 2019, 05:10

Actually its 3A via balance wires. So can be pretty useful for just topping ip, or balancing. Or hobby batteries. Saves you digging out the main connecting wires.

For this to work you must select FMA wiring system. With 8s thats just the same as normal.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Furio » 30 Aug 2019, 09:04

Hi All,

I am having a problem with running PL8 charger. I had formatted and reinstalled windows 7 on laptop with all recommended updates. Then I installed the CCS , but the FUIM3 driver had to be installed manually as windows did not recognise it. But still windows wouldn't detect the FUIM3 as CCS detects COM6 in auto leaving COM1 and 5.There is no COM3 available. Before reinstalling windows charger was was working normally with COM3 selected in auto. I have tried all my limited tricks but to no avail.

Any inputs in this regard is highly appreciated.

Furio.
Furio
 
Posts: 125
Joined: 24 Dec 2011, 18:10
Location: India

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 30 Aug 2019, 09:10

I am having a problem with running PL8 charger. I had formatted and reinstalled windows 7 on laptop with all recommended updates. Then I installed the CCS , but the FUIM3 driver had to be installed manually as windows did not recognise it.


Then at this point there already a problem to solve.
Hardware most likely because we know the CCS and the FUIM work. And they are all digital/identical.

Unless you have the PL8 connected with the plug the wrong way around, or a defective USB cable. Then take a look in device manager, and find out what com port its really on. Then set the PL8 to match. Dont rely on auto, or com3.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Furio » 30 Aug 2019, 10:00

Hi BM,

The same charger and the FUIM3 with the same USB cable is working right now on windows 10 laptop on COM3 in auto. And there was no problem while connecting. If I select the same COM port in my Computer as the charger, then it does not get connected.
Furio
 
Posts: 125
Joined: 24 Dec 2011, 18:10
Location: India

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 30 Aug 2019, 10:04

It can be any com port windows decides. But I have no idea what your computer is doing. Its a hardware issue. Your win 7 laptop may have a faulty USB or the USB is configured incorrectly or something.

What does it show in device manager when you plug in the PL8?
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 46370
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby steves1977uk » 30 Aug 2019, 13:37

ex-Gooserider wrote:
shirley_hkg wrote: Do I still need the balance leads if doing just 1 cell ?


As BM said, no you don't need the balance wires if doing one cell (or a bunch in parallel)...

I wouldn't advise it unless the cell was very small, but you can also charge via the balance wires alone, and not use the main power leads - but charge current is very low (max under 500mA if I remember correctly) if doing this, so only practical for really tiny batteries....

ex-Gooserider


I believe 3A is the max current limit through the balance wires alone that you can charge at, although I've never tried this.

Steve
User avatar
steves1977uk
 
Posts: 2514
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:47
Location: Wells next the Sea, Norfolk, UK

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Furio » 30 Aug 2019, 18:20

Hi BM,

#It can be any com port windows decides. But I have no idea what your computer is doing. Its a hardware issue. Your win 7 laptop may have a faulty USB or the USB is configured incorrectly or something.

What does it show in device manager when you plug in the PL8?#


Now ,when I open the CCS software, windows hangs.

When the FUIM3 is plugged in, there is no change on the COM1, which is the FTDI USB - serial port.

I do not know what else to do.
Furio
 
Posts: 125
Joined: 24 Dec 2011, 18:10
Location: India

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Irving » 30 Aug 2019, 20:14

Furio wrote:Hi BM,

#It can be any com port windows decides. But I have no idea what your computer is doing. Its a hardware issue. Your win 7 laptop may have a faulty USB or the USB is configured incorrectly or something.

What does it show in device manager when you plug in the PL8?#


Now ,when I open the CCS software, windows hangs.

When the FUIM3 is plugged in, there is no change on the COM1, which is the FTDI USB - serial port.

I do not know what else to do.

Never use com1 or com2. Always better to use a higher number like 6 or 7.

try changing the assigned COM port.

Close CCS

Go to Device Manager > Ports (COM & LPT) > USB Serial Port (yours may be called something else), then right-click and select "properties".

Choose the "Port Settings" Tab, and click "Advanced"

Under "COM Port Number", try selecting a different COM port.

Open CCS and select the port you designated.
Puma 40, 75Ah LiFePO4
Spectra Plus
User avatar
Irving
 
Posts: 1404
Joined: 04 Dec 2012, 11:51
Location: NW London

Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Furio » 31 Aug 2019, 18:26

Hi Irwin,

Thanks a lot. I followed your suggestion and the charger is working. :clap:
Furio
 
Posts: 125
Joined: 24 Dec 2011, 18:10
Location: India

PreviousNext

Return to Everything Powerchair

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], ICEUK, LROBBINS, shirley_hkg, woodygb and 48 guests

cron

 

  eXTReMe Tracker