PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 17 Oct 2017, 18:02

Nobody flies planes and helis in winter. Hence no stocks. But in stock here? https://www.align-trex.co.uk/dc-1350w-o ... pl8v2.html
Or call these! http://optipower.co.uk/Products/optipower-resellers/

I buy cheaper from here anyway:
http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... rkstations

Be sure to get a few 1 meter long 9 pin 8S balance extention cables, and a USB connection adapter! As carriage on these alone is a killer.

No other hobby charger comes close so far. If they stop making these I am buying a couple more fast!
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby CPguy » 17 Oct 2017, 18:19

Dear Burgerman,

thank you for your fast reply! Is this the USB adapter required? http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... t-II/FUIM3

I can not find extension cables on this site. May I ask for a link please, I feel silly. ;)
My rides:
1 BM2/BM3 with 120 A R-Net and Odessey (Lithium in 2016)
1 SKS Swiss VIVA (spare, as only NF22 size battery)
2 Progeo YOGA (for traveling)
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 17 Oct 2017, 18:24

http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... sion-Cable

These allow you to connect the balance port of the charger, and make life simple. I would get a few. The connector is not very common.

http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... Plug-Cable These are the only safe connectors that work at 40A but I get a bag on ebay for that price and make my own cables.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby CPguy » 17 Oct 2017, 18:33

Dear Burgerman,

thank you for the links! I am truly grateful!

Where did you get your 12 pin connector please where you combine charging and balancer cables in one plug please?
My rides:
1 BM2/BM3 with 120 A R-Net and Odessey (Lithium in 2016)
1 SKS Swiss VIVA (spare, as only NF22 size battery)
2 Progeo YOGA (for traveling)
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 17 Oct 2017, 19:22

Various places sell those. Mine were from rs components. If you look at the lithium pinned thread, and have a bit of patience as there are many types, part numbers. Some are lower current etc.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby CPguy » 17 Oct 2017, 20:47

Thank you very much! Good night!
My rides:
1 BM2/BM3 with 120 A R-Net and Odessey (Lithium in 2016)
1 SKS Swiss VIVA (spare, as only NF22 size battery)
2 Progeo YOGA (for traveling)
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 17 Oct 2017, 21:51

Found them...

Some here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=580
Specifically here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=620#p65856

And the next 3 or 4 pages, but you should spend a night or two reading the whole thread...
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby snaker » 18 Oct 2017, 02:36

I have Dsub shells of both plastic and metal. Which ones are better? I know metal ones are more sturdy but I worry about insulation.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 18 Oct 2017, 03:01

I prefer plastic .

Fill them up with hot glue , and they are bullet proof .
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby snaker » 18 Oct 2017, 08:49

Is blue-tack clay good to fill empty void inside a DSub shell in place of silicon glue?
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 18 Oct 2017, 08:59

I dont fill with anything. Once bolted together, the cable is clamped. Nothing can move.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Gnomatic » 18 Oct 2017, 15:37

The metal ones expresso and I used seem perfectly fine,

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/3078433

http://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=nor1189-nd

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/1104243

As BM said with all the cables, inside sleeving and heat shrink, the shell closes tightly around around everything and there's little concern anything inside can move. Its all very well secured at that point.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 18 Oct 2017, 18:14

A while back somewhere it was posted some links to the plastic shells - i took a look and ordered a few to see if they were any good - it was a mistake -- i didnt like them being plastic - dont feel durable enough to me - being handled all the time - also the shell itself is different so the room inside was tigher - making it harder to route the wires and close it -

if you ask me - not worth saving a few dollars at this point - first you may only need a handful in a lifetime if done right - i plan to make a few more in the winter as spares - Charger side -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby LROBBINS » 18 Oct 2017, 20:19

A problem with "standard" plastic DB shells is that they let water in. The metal ones I'm now using (for normal DB connectors) have tight fitting ferrules rather than cable clamps and are much better sealed.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby snaker » 19 Oct 2017, 10:53

So most members here vote for metal shells :thumbup:

I just tried to fit a metal shell. There are 2 small pieces that I do not know where to put them. Do you recognize them? Where are they placed?

2017-10-19_1641.jpg
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby sad_vampire » 19 Oct 2017, 11:13

Washers that go between the body of the D-Sub and the thumbscrew/screw that holds the D-Sub connectors (male & female) together.

https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/O ... s-l225.jpg
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 19 Oct 2017, 16:03

snaker wrote:So most members here vote for metal shells :thumbup:

I just tried to fit a metal shell. There are 2 small pieces that I do not know where to put them. Do you recognize them? Where are they placed?

2017-10-19_1641.jpg



that shell looks its a nice size - roomy inside for the wiring - where did you get that one ? do you have a link to it by any chance - curious to take a look at it -

would you have a picture of how it looks inside with the wiring all done - ? to see how the wiring fits in there -

thanks
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby snaker » 20 Oct 2017, 02:05

@expresso: Here is the picture of inside. My dad soldered this DSub, how does it look? I bought 2 pairs on taobao.com through a link that Steve or Sherly had posted here. In reality it is smaller than it looks in the picture. Comparing to your branded Dsub, it is not as good as yours. You can see it is not insulating painted.

2017-10-20_0745.jpg
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby snaker » 20 Oct 2017, 02:50

Burgerman wrote:After the first 5 or 6 charges you can drop charge voltage from 3.600v to 3.550 or even 3.500 if you want. But it will take more time to end CV and balance less well/slower.

I like to decrease the charge voltage down to 3.550V to check if the charging voltage graph gets better. Is the "charge voltage" in the Charge tab as in the picture below? Do I need to change any other parameters to match with the new charge voltage 3.550V?

2017-10-20_0845.png
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 20 Oct 2017, 08:52

Correct. But dont do that till you have everything working and completely balanced as it reduces balance accuracy and speed too.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 20 Oct 2017, 15:56

snaker wrote:@expresso: Here is the picture of inside. My dad soldered this DSub, how does it look? I bought 2 pairs on taobao.com through a link that Steve or Sherly had posted here. In reality it is smaller than it looks in the picture. Comparing to your branded Dsub, it is not as good as yours. You can see it is not insulating painted.

2017-10-20_0745.jpg


it looks like you have a straigth run with the power wires out back - that would make it easier - the ones i used and others - are shorter and the two end power wires have to be angled enough to get it out - i would say yours looks like it would be easier in that requard -
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby ex-Gooserider » 24 Oct 2017, 02:12

snaker wrote:I have Dsub shells of both plastic and metal. Which ones are better? I know metal ones are more sturdy but I worry about insulation.


The only difference from an electrical standpoint is the level of electromagnetic shielding provided - when dealing with high-speed / frequency signals, this can be critical, both to avoid picking up interference, and to avoid broadcasting noise that might interfere with other stuff. However for PL8 use, we are dealing with DC current for all intents and purposes, so shielding is a non-issue.

It is also debatable about whether the metal shells are any more durable / sturdy than the plastic ones. Most of the metal shells are made from cast zinc or 'pot metal' which tends to be rather brittle, and tends to crack easily, especially in the thin cross sections used in the cast shells.

Some plastics are also brittle, but a lot of others are pretty tough, and might hold up to abuse better than pot-metal...

Bottom line, I'd look more at how the shell is designed than what it's made of... FWIW when I was looking at shells on Digi-key, you could get identical looking designs in metal, metalized plastic or plain plastic...

Be careful filling shells with silicone or other material, as many silicone compounds release acetic acid (vinegar) while curing, and that can cause corrosion that destroys the connections...

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby ex-Gooserider » 24 Oct 2017, 02:25

I am having a problem with the PL8 that I ordered back in July this year. I didn't bother testing it when it showed up (mistake...) :oops: ....

I also chopped off that weird bullet connector and replaced it with 45A Andersons....

When I plug it into my power supply (24V, 63A) it beeps, the fans run for a couple seconds, then stop, and the display lights up, but doesn't show anything... I have tried it with and without the USB adapter plugged in. I didn't plug in any sort of battery, or try connecting a computer...

IF I push and hold both menu buttons, or the back button, I get a series of beeps, and a bunch of garbage characters on the top line of the display until I let go.

As I read the manual, just plugging the charger in by itself, should still give all the menu displays and allow setting the power supply and some of the other user configuration stuff....

Do I have a defective unit? Or is it an easy fix? I wasn't able to find anything in the manual - all the troubleshooting stuff is based on reading the error messages on the display, nothing about having a blank display....

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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 24 Oct 2017, 02:40

Sounds very broke to me. Test on any 10 to 30v battery, should get a clear display and ready to go.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby snaker » 24 Oct 2017, 03:23

I also tried a plastic shells and I recognized that its internal is different from the metal one. It's smaller and has not enough room for 2 power wires + 9 balance wires while the metal one has some extra space. Maybe it only serves for DB25 with 25 balance wires. So I only have the unique choice - the metal ones.

I bought DB13W3 on taobao. As I remember, a set of male connector + female connector+ plastic shell + metal shell costs only $8 (inc tax/ship to my house). My dad made DSub cables, this job was not too hard even for a unskilled 70 years old elder. I am charging/discharging the pack through these DSub cables, they are working fine at 20A. After helping me to build the pack, my dad is now like solder addicted. I asks me order some additional DB13W3 for him to make 1 or 2 spare DSub cables.

Looking back the price of DB13W3 tagged on digikey or mouser, I see they are too expensive. I rather make and use some Chinese ones instead. But always be careful when using Chinese goods, my charging cables are actually fitted 4 fuses.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 25 Oct 2017, 01:26

Your dad is addicted to soldering! Love it. :clap:

He needs a powerful small iron that doesent get over hot, so it stays tinned and adds heat only when needed now.

Makes everything easier in his new hobby...

Fake? https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 49397.html

Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888-FX-8 ... B004M3U0VU

I have one of these. I dont think you can get a lot better. I used basic cheap irons for years. But this is 65 watts in a controlled thermostatic tiny iron. It makes everything so much easier.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby shirley_hkg » 25 Oct 2017, 02:58

A bit expensive @initial investment , but turn out to be repaid fruitfully in the long run . :bounce :bravo
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby snaker » 25 Oct 2017, 02:58

Looking for a suitable iron to make cables is a whole story. My mum used to work in the electronic domain when TV was still back and white. She did soldering through oil and copper tips (not electrical irons). Later, she found a 'super' iron made in Czech (Czechoslovakia) and used it a lot in fixing TV/radio. Then she switched to another job and did not solder anything since 30 years ago. That Czech iron still exists till today. Firstable, my dad tried to use it to make cables. The soldering result was always ... bad and we decided to throw it into the rubbish bin. Next we borrowed 2 irons from a family's friend who claims himself doing a lot soldering. Both are nothing different than our ancient iron and cannot work. Eventually I decided to buy a cheap iron just to see how a recent iron works comparing to the ancient one. I bought the Chinese one below, 60W adjustable + 6 tips for only $8 (inc tax/ship). It's incredible that it works so well. The adjustable temperature is not accurate but it can be used to estimating the needed power. E.g we set it max 450o when soldering 10 awg wires but reduce it to 350o for smaller wires. My dad is being extremely happy with it.

https://www.banggood.com/Mustool-MT223- ... 77119.html
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby Burgerman » 25 Oct 2017, 03:19

Its better that it has some temp setting. But thats only a power level. Like adding a resistor.

What happens is this.
You set the iron which is not thermostatic, to the perfect temp to solder at say 200C typically, with decent lead type solder.
This means the tip can stay silver and shiny, and tinned and doesent overheat or burn the flux away and oxydise and go all black and messed up!
Then at 200C as you touch a cold wire, or terminal, the tip goes colder as the heat is removed from it. Down to say 100 or 150C. So it wont solder... You wait, and wait...

So now you decide you need to set a higher temp (like you have at 450C). This is not good because as you wait or before you use it the iron overheats. And burns the flux away. It goes all dull and burned and blackened and has to be cleaned up making soldering difficult.

With a thermostatic iron, you can set it to a low 200C or 220C that works for most things fine, and never need to change that. As you touch the cold wire, the sensor in the tip detects that it is starting to cool, accurate to 2 degrees C. And it instantly adds as much power as is required to achieve the same 200C and no more. So it doesent cool in the same way. So soldering big or small connectors/cables does not mean turning up the heat. Although it works best if you use a larger heavier tip on bigger cables. Everything stays clean and unburned. The difference is huge.
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Re: PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

Postby expresso » 25 Oct 2017, 03:46

i tend to work better when its very hot - so this way i can get it done fast and not make mistakes - i feel the longer i hold the iron etc, the more mistakes i end up making - or more chances of making mistakes -
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