GOOD dealers or BAD. Post experiences!

[Burgerman]

Post your experiences. Good or bad.
Add Name of company and any link to a website.

Looking for a new chair?
THESE are the guys I ordered my new storm 4 x-plore from after emailing or talking to an invacare rep, and half a dozen other companies directly. They were not the cheapest. They offered me 30% off and zero vat so another 20%. With3 year parts warranty but my labour. (Another dealer had offered me 35% but didn't seem very efficient or responsive). They were the ones that got back to me rapidly, with around 30 complex emails while trying to decide on various options and special orders such as non standard control systems, and center footrests etc. Over a week or so. Responsive and efficient. Its not delivered yet, but so far very good! We will see and I will update in this the future. A family run business. Check out the About Us page!

http://www.bettermobility.co.uk/index.php Main
http://www.bettermobility.co.uk/about_us.php About Us
http://www.bettermobility.co.uk/catalog ... CI_ID=2557 my new project chair...
Remember that when you look at the price, I paid 30% less (discount) and no VAT. Thats exactly HALF the VAT price shown on the page.

So far: 9.5/10 (only because they were not quite the cheapest!)

Contact Us
We're always happy to help, and look forward to helping you make decisions regarding your/your client's mobility.
There are no silly questions. If it's important to you, it's important to us.
We'd love to hear from you. Go on, drop us a line.

Better Mobility Limited
12 Henry Wells Square,
Grovehill,
Hemel Hempstead,
Herts,
HP2 6BJ

Tel: 01442 768 797
Fax: 01442 768 783
Email: sales@bettermobility.co.uk

Shop & Office Hours: Monday to Friday, 09.00 - 17.00
Company Details:

Better Mobility is a trading style of Better Mobility Limited.
Better Mobility Ltd is Registered in England and Wales, Company Number 06344317; Registered Office: 4 Claridge Court, Lower Kings Road, Berkhamsted, Hertfordshire, HP4 2AF

VAT Number:
GB 816 8840 03

[ex-Gooserider]

My power chairs are all second hand so no dealer experiences...

My manual chair came from Hudson Seating and Mobility, and I had no end of problems going to them for parts and service, slow, always showed up with the wrong parts, never told you what the status of your request was, etc... The techs were marginally competent at best - I once had one break a bushing on the chair, and then tell me that it wasn't really a needed part, just something Sunrise put on for the heck of it...

I went with them because they had a real scam going at Spaulding where I did my rehab... (otherwise I was happy with my experience at Spaulding) As you were getting close to 'graduation' you were taken down to the 'wheelchair clinic' for evaluation and fitting for your permanent chair. (While in rehab they swapped you into a different chair every couple of days, which was good as you got to try out a lot of different styles and types of chair...) You were never told that you were now dealing with an outside vendor, or that you had any options to check other vendors, get additional opinions, etc... (In fairness I am not sure it would have made a difference, since as a newly injured para, I had no real clue....)

Spaulding has a support group, which I went to occasionally, and we had more than one meeting that essentially amounted to a room full of wheelers ALL complaining about Hudson....

Hudson has now been bought out by "National Seating and Mobility" which is a nationwide chain of DME dealers - I haven't dealt with them, so can't comment other than the hatred level at the support group meetings has gone down a little bit...

Manual chairs don't need much service, but for what little I need (Mostly just because I want insurance to pay for the parts...) I have been dealing with NuMotion, another national chain... Still slow, though a lot of that is more due to insurance paperwork than any issues with the company. They do a little better at keeping you informed about where things are in the process, and their techs are somewhat more competent...

ex-Gooserider

[MenCallMeGimpy]

My NuMotion experience was pretty bad. I'd just been given my chair prescription by the UCLA Neurology Clinic and was browsing around the Abilities Expo in LA. I tried a couple of Sunrise chairs and mentioned that I hadn't yet found a DME. The Sunrise salesman recommended NuMotion and even took me over to their stand at the expo. The NuMotion rep gave me a big spiel about how fantastic they are and how they "put the customer first" and all that twaddle. He gave me the contact details of the "head" of the LA office and told me to call and mention his name.

After five phone messages and three voicemails (over a two week period) with no response, I gave up and bought myself a second hand chair on eBay. Several months later, I started getting calls from NuMotion, telling me how they were "eager to help" me. I just let them spout their nonsense at my voicemail. Then, out of the blue, they sent someone to my house unannounced, to "check on (my) welfare." Unfortunately, I wasn't home, so I missed a prime opportunity to tell them what I think of them and advise them never to darken my door again.

[F3Head]

Living here in the US, in the suburbs of Philadelphia, PA, I used National Seating Mobility. As others have mentioned, I would stay away from them if possible. I purchased a Permobil from them. The seating rep from NSM was the worse problem. All too glad to speak to me before the sale, way too difficult to get hold of after the sale. I had service come out from there to install a wheelchair harness. The guy was a real ass who didn't seem to have time for installing such a trivial piece. He claimed they make no real money in service and he hated doing it on the road. The problem is NSM is buying everyone in sight. I was down to two choices of dealers. Both of whom had bad reviews found with a simple web search on Google. The problem is only going to get worse in the US with the consolidation of the DME and healthcare industry. The CMS Centers for Medicare & Medicaid the government insurance programs and their competitive bidding processes is making it difficult for DME's to make a buck. A terrible and limited pool of wheelchair dealer franchises and tons of paperwork made getting a chair difficult. I will say the Permobile rep was pretty good and helpful during all of the sales and set up routines.

F3HEAD

[rustyjames]

Wow, National Seating and Mobility, I can't believe they're still operating. They set me up through the rehab when I entered the wheelchair world back in 2000. They were the inspiration for me to never have to deal with another DME supplier again. I just buy used chairs, out of pocket. It seems that they haven't changed:

https://national-seating-and-mobility.p ... nsumer.com

[Burgerman]

Well as in post 1, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6622&p=97221#p96472 my chair was delivered in 3 weeks, special order, built in Germany. Assembled correctly, not a mark as far as I can see from my bed , demonstrated in my home. No programming offered but in my case not required... I have all that covered.

The Bad: They forgot the charger, and they missed the "cut down" canes at the rear of seat, (no push handled ticked on the form) so I now have to do it myself... And that was 35? UK pounds extra paid! Charger is on a carrier about to be delivered today. All in all a good experience. 3 years warranty included in my discounted price, parts only. I do the work. No big deal for me.

The Good: Everything else.

9.5 out of ten for price, efficiency, etc. They were not the cheapest. 35% was offered by one dealer. They were the most responsive and appeared knowledgeable and so got my order.

[Doginsea]

How did you manage to get a discount? I'll need some pretty specific seating and whatnot so any chair I try would need to be brought out by a dealer. I was looking at mobility for you (which local wheelchair services use) and wheel freedom.

[Burgerman]

Easy. Find out exactly what you want. I mean everything. Get a detailed list. Also the prescription forms for your chosen chair. Learn in great detail what all the chair, seating etc options are and then call as many suppliers or specialists as possible. Email your prescription forms etc and a list of specific mods/parts and ask for the best price they can offer you. Tell them you are buying cash. And ringing around for a good deal.

In my case I emailed the prescription form, for the options and seating options I wanted on the Storm 4 X-Plore. And added a not to add, an REM550 joystick, and power central footplate, and a couple of other changes - non of which are on the prescription form. And then sit back and wait a week. If they are interested or any good, they will be back with a price.

I paid less 30% and less 20% VAT for personal use on the base chair and any extras. Could have saved 35%.
And this is a prescription form: http://www.bettermobility.co.uk/downloa ... 202017.pdf And its the newest 2017 one, with prices increased by 10% now... So £7028 less 35% = £4919 no VAT to you...

Call the best ones and have a talk... Some are seating experts too. See what each will offer, if you have cash, its a buyers market. No different to buying a kitchen, or a car, or whatever.

EG My chair - quick google, theres hundreds of dealers:
http://www.gerald-simonds.co.uk/catalog ... ?CI_ID=261
http://clarkshop.co.uk/shop/wheelchairs ... ore-detail
http://www.bettermobility.co.uk/catalog ... CI_ID=2557
http://www.mobilityforyou.co.uk/product ... -4-x-plore
https://www.wheelfreedom.com/products/i ... owerchair/

[wakarimasen]

I got VERY lucky to find this dealer.

I'm trying to buy a new chair thru US Medicare which is a bureaucratic nightmare as far as powerchairs are concerned. My dealer is Nu Motion recommended to me by my doctor. The application process started two years ago and I've been turned down twice due to application "imperfections". One was that the app contained a cushion not approved by Medicare which does everything possible to avoid paying for powerchairs, yet one can get a scooter easily.

Mobilty devices are covered as a program policy. Medicare is normally very good about paying DIRECT medical costs but not so good about paying INDIRECT costs such as mobility devices and other support expenses like home care.

I had eight surgeries totaling about a half-million U.S. and only had $300 in non covered expenses (hospital telephone & internet charges). Yes, I am paying for optional Medicare coverage at a minimal amount but regardless I was blown away after hearing so much negative BS by insurance sharks who want to sell you expensive supplimental policies.

The dealer advised me to be persistent and they will eventually give in and pay for it. They have stayed with me through all this nonsense, done all the paperwork and submitted three applications. I still haven't gotten the approval yet but a dealer that would hang with you, and probably loosing money, in a rigamarole like this is really commendable. Also, I've had a specific saleswoman working with me thru all this -- we are like old friends now.

[Burgerman]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6856

[wakarimasen]

Well, it just goes to show how careful we must be regarding reviews. A few bad reviews can easily negate dozens of positive experiences by people who never review anything, demonstrating that reviews don't necessarily paint the whole picture. I've had the reverse happen, too, where I had a terrible experience while others have raved about something/someone. I examine reviews carefully for attitude and motivation of the writer who sometimes doesn't seem reasonable or has a bad attitude or vendetta. Was the bad service caused by unreasonable demands by reviewer?

I once bought a washer/dryer combo despite large numbers of often ranting negative reviews based on my perception thru commentary that reviewers did not read the operating instructions and were misusing the washer by improperly loading the detergent. I wasn't wrong, it turned out to be a great machine that I would have missed had I just taken negative reviews at face value without careful analysis.

[Burgerman]

Well maybe, but in this case its plainly complete ignorance of charging and batteries. Which you wouldn't expect from a company doing what they do.

[clairc]

I didn't have such a great experience with an eBay seller called lyal_7 (George Lyall). He mostly sells parts but does some second hand powerchairs too.

I bought a folding electric wheelchair. It was listed as excellent condition, 100% working order and all parts tested. I thought it would be ok but it was a complete rat of a chair. It arrived by courier, I actually got a phone call to say it was coming from Solutions Mobility, but when it arrived I was very disappointed.

It wasn't secured to the pallet properly, it had been loosely tied on with lengths of shrink wrap plastic.
The right hand wheels had slipped between the gaps in the pallet so the chair was sat at an angle.
The charger hadn't been packaged properly and the wires had fallen between the pallet slats.
The plug that connects the charger to the chair had been crushed out of shape under the pallet.
There was a cigarette burn in the seat of the chair.
The chair was fitted with two right hand arm rests.
The arm rest clip was missing so the arm rest was unsecured and could not be height adjusted.
The lower plastic body panel was split almost from top to bottom.
The footrests were held on with electrical tape.
The left hand manual brake bolts were bent at an angle.
The velcro on the leg strap was falling off where it had come un-stitched.
The chair juddered like crazy when moving off from a standstill.
When moving the chair vibrated so much it made my feet go numb.
The power and horn buttons didn't work properly, it took multiple presses to turn it on or off.
And there was a lot of oil on the right hand rear axle and around the gearbox.

I know it was a used chair, I don't mind a bit of wear and tear but I didn't expect there to be so many problems. The controller was knackered and it felt like the gearbox was on it's way out. It was definitely not worth what I paid for it.

I asked for a refund as it was not in 'excellent' condition or '100% working order'. They accepted my return without argument and sent a courier to pick up the chair. Two days after they got the chair back I asked them about my refund. They then opened a case and said eBay were going to refund me. I don't know why they didn't just refund via Paypal, unless they already spent my money. Six days after they got the chair back I still hadn't got my money back. I phoned eBay up and they said they closed the case and found in my favour so I should get my full refund soon.

I was still looking for a wheelchair and I was browsing eBay when I discovered they had re-listed the chair as being in 'fair' condition, 100% working order. It was listed for the same price I paid for it. It was relisted the day after they got it back so either they did a very quick job of replacing the faulty parts or it's exactly the same rat of a chair I bought.

More worryingly they also listed the same chair for sale under another username, llya1411, Louise Lyall. This is against eBay terms and conditions because you can't sell the same thing twice. The photographs are different but the cigarette burn in the seat is in exactly the same place.

I don't know if they are rip off merchants or if I just got unlucky but I won't be using them again.

[Burgerman]

dont buy from anyone without 99.9% feedback or better. And lots of it. Or accept the risk!

[clairc]

The seller had 100% rating but only 25 feedback. I thought it was worth the risk, especially when the courier said the delivery was coming from Solutions Mobility as a couple of people on this forum have recommended them to me. I don't know if the seller is affiliated to them or not.

I just feel sorry for the next person to buy the chair. I'm no expert but the oil leaking out of the gear box, the buttons on the controller not responding and the juddering when it starts to move doesn't really fit with the '100% working order' description.

[Burgerman]

You were unlucky. I have had good and bad on ebay. And amazon. But mostly good, and paypal refunds if theres any issues.

[tnt]

I just took delivery of my fourth chair from solutions mobility ( Notts ) never had any major problems and if you accept a few marks & dings--ex demo after all !. Notice similar name companys about online. But your experience was real bad, glad you got it sorted. Will go double check this one now.

[ex-Gooserider]

Being a bit of an obnoxious troublemaker, I would suggest reporting the second seller listing to eBay and see what they do...

I often wonder about how many times you have the same vendor with a bunch of different names when I look at Chinese electronics vendors - when I see 10 or more vendors of the same item, and all have the same pictures and descriptions.....

I agree on the suggestion of only purchasing from sellers with high feedback scores and numbers of sales... It sometimes seems to be worth doing a bit of a balance between scores and price if there are a lot of vendors selling the same item (especially true if looking at electronic stuff from China...)

It's relatively easy to pick when there are lots of vendors selling the same thing - look for the best balance between deal and feedback score... I give bonus points for US seller as that increases odds of fast delivery, and good price w/ shipping (or free shipping) and then have to decide possibly how much price I'm willing to give up for good ratings...

When it's a 'one of a kind' item, like a lot of used stuff, it gets harder, as it comes down to how much you like a given vendor, rather than picking the one you like best...

I will sometimes look at the negative feedback and see what it consists of, is it stuff that seems like serious issues, or just the "can't please everyone" sort of issues...

I will also look at what other sorts of items the vendor is selling.... I feel more comfortable dealing with vendors that are fairly specialized in the kind of item I'm looking at - the vendor that is selling just chair parts is both more dependent on his reputation, and is more likely to be able to accurately judge and describe the condition of what he's selling than the person that sells all sorts of stuff and just happened to have some chair parts....

Most of my experiences have been good, but I've also had a few issues...

One of the things I've learned (the hard way) is that as soon as you see there is a problem, BOTH write to the vendor (use the eBay mail system, as that keeps records on their site) AND open a 'case'.... I have had some vendors that did slow and not really responsive messages that suggested a resolution was pending until the time limit for filing a complaint with eBay ran out, and then left me holding the bag with no recourse....

Opening the case immediately puts the vendor under a bit more pressure to make a happy resolution, and preserves your rights with regards to the eBay resolution system if you have to go that far (I have almost never had that happen)...

ex-Gooserider

[clairc]

My case isn't quite resolved. I returned the chair and when I asked them about my refund the seller opened a case and said eBay would refund me. I phoned eBay and they said I will be getting my money back because the case has been found in my favour but it had to be authorised because it's a large sum of money. The case is still open and I'm still waiting for my refund.

In the meantime the seller readvertised the chair with a slightly more honest description. I don't know if they fixed the issues I had (faulty controller, bent brakes, oil around the gearbox, etc.) but now they claim it's in 'fair' condition rather than 'excellent' condition.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KARMA-KP25-ELECTRIC-WHEELCHAIR-/172734169526?hash=item2837c241b6:g:UQoAAOSw0hlZL7LN

But another seller seems to have advertised the same chair. Look carefully at the placement of the cigarette burn in the seat and the scuff on the cushion. It's either the same chair or it's identical twin! LOL!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Karma-Foldable-Power-Chair-/172735596640?hash=item2837d80860:g:c3wAAOSwIjJZROiu

I've noticed there are quite a few different eBay usernames selling powerchairs and parts that claim to be around Alfreton/J28 M1/NG16/DE55. I don't know if they have anything to do with each other or if they are all the same people. For example eBay usernames mossy1633 and pri-char both have pictures of chairs against the same background. When I bought something from Solutions Mobility a year ago it was from a username that no longer exists on eBay. And when courier phoned about delivering the chair I bought recently he said it was coming from Solutions Mobility even though the username was lyal_7.

It really is a game of chance when you're buying off the internet. At least eBay, Paypal and credit cards give you some protection.

[Glitterfairy]

I got my current chair and the one I had just before it from a dealer who has his own buisness not far at all from where I live. Easy ordering and quick delivery. He kept my chair a bit longer at a time we were away before he delivered it personally for free.

Good service from that point of view. He doesn't know about mounting backrests and harnesses/ belts to the chair so that's a drawback. He will try fitting stuff though. Does not have anyone working with him who does. Is very respectful of prices.

Others not respectful of prices and wanted a quick sale no matter how much they altered the prices. Also wanted to charge extra for transporting the chair. One wanted commission and to double the VAT on every item. Didn't buy from these people.

Some promised to assess me and never did. Many didn't know how to assess me. The last guy I saw wanted to measure me and came without a tape measure and was really flustered and bored. He revommeneded 51cm cushion length when I need 46cm, and could clearly see that the length would be limited because of the calf pads on the central elevating footrest. Didn't buy from him. He included stuff in the quote (which arrived after weeks of waiting) that was completely the wrong product and/ or size for me.

Another got my cushion sizing right just by looking at me. One recommended 46cmx46cm which would have been 2cm too wide (didn't buy from him).

So a mix, really. It can get really frustrating! We are still hoping to hopefully get me what I need cushion wise after over a year. They all make a huge deal about getting stuff to trial. Once, the trial products were sent to the shop and were sat there for ages before anyone contacted us. I never got to try them as the provider took them back. It takes forever to get things sorted and has caused us more than one headache.

[Glitterfairy]

Good experiences:

Recare (Oxfordshire)

http://www.recare.co.uk/

La Casa del Enfermo (Madrid)

http://www.lacasadelenfermo.es/inicio.html

Bad experiences:

Oxfordshire Wheelchair Services
Via Libre (Ilunion)
EO PRIM (Madrid)

[Glitterfairy]

Good:

Recare (Oxfordshire)

http://www.recare.co.uk/

There's a good one called La Casa del Enfermo which has good ordering and delivery services, respects the product price. Family business. Spanish only.