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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 07 Jun 2017, 04:00

shirley_hkg wrote: BTW , battery guy replied that minimum order is 100 pieces from SINOPOLY .

How many 40152 can be fitted ? Those 400 new old stock we've bought are very healthy , and economical .


shirley_hkg wrote:
Burgerman wrote:Cool! Need 8 asap!


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=2480

BM , you should give this 75Ah cells some thought again . Their IRs seems better than the brand new SINOPOLY 125AH .

Your box can fit 15 of them . Need 1 more . May be outside the box ? You will have 150AH then . 135AH @90% still .


OR less AH with the twos belows , though 0.8mΩ seems a bit high . The first one is 0.5mΩ
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 07 Jun 2017, 07:26

Need 1 more . May be outside the box ?


:o :x :? Not elegant!

OR less AH with the twos belows , though 0.8mΩ seems a bit high . The first one is 0.5mΩ


Not enough Ah... Too low rated.
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Re: New chair!

Postby Gnomatic » 07 Jun 2017, 15:07

shirley_hkg wrote:
Burgerman wrote:Cool! Need 8 asap!


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=2480

BM , you should give this 75Ah cells some thought again . Their IRs seems better than the brand new SINOPOLY 125AH .

Your box can fit 15 of them . Need 1 more . May be outside the box ? You will have 150AH then . 135AH @90% still .


Can you still get those, shirley? Last I looked on Taobao they were out of stock. Did you find another supplier?
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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 08 Jun 2017, 02:08

They say YES .
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Re: New chair!

Postby Gnomatic » 09 Jun 2017, 17:32

shirley_hkg wrote: They say YES .


Same price as before?
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Re: New chair!

Postby Gnomatic » 10 Jun 2017, 01:34

Gnomatic wrote:
shirley_hkg wrote: They say YES .


Same price as before?


nvm I found the cells on Taobao again, price is the same.
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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 14 Jun 2017, 11:48

:o None of us will survive in the KENSINGTON inferno !
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 14 Jun 2017, 13:28

Secret is, do not live with other idiots. And do not live in a building unless you are on the GROUND floor. Or your own house, with staircase and fire escape, and properly working alarms.

I have a bungalow. (one floor). But sleep with an empty house. So in danger. I have a large fire extinguisher and 2 phones next to my bed. And I remove power to everything in the house other than my room (one big switch) and turn the gas off...
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Re: New chair!

Postby Furio » 16 Jun 2017, 08:01

Hi BM,

This site may supply Sinopoly cells.

http://www.evlithium.com/sinopoly-battery/

Furio.
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 16 Jun 2017, 09:47

Only the common ones...
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 22 Jun 2017, 23:10

Just tested my chair for motor current while running at 8mph. Rubber band on joystick, chair hanging from block and tackle as I clean it.

Battery current, both motors 8mph, inc brake, control system, total draw on my battery is 2.32 Amps. Doesn't seem possible! If I do the same on a 4 pole motor chair it reads around 12A. WHich is why on a long range test the brushless gearless chair goes on forever.
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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 23 Jun 2017, 00:37

Current is in pulse modulation mode , and would it be bigger than metered ?
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 23 Jun 2017, 07:18

No, true rms meter. Its really that low. Obviously it will increase when loaded due to emf.
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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 23 Jun 2017, 08:43

It is correct then , as wheels turn in the air .

Same reading as I calibrate them , and draws 15A as they change direction .
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 23 Jun 2017, 12:10

Typical 4 pole is 5 to 7A each motor.

Also with REM550, and actuator modules etc and GB-DX2 power module it reas 238mA. So almost 1Ah wasted every 4 hours if you never move an inch. So 280 hours till dead!
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Re: New chair!

Postby LROBBINS » 23 Jun 2017, 12:53

Is that 238 mA with the chair turned on, but not doing anything, or with it turned off? If it's ON, it's not much worse than a Roboteq without activators etc. Mine draws ca. 160 mA all by its lonesome and the whole CAN bus system pulls that to only 180 mA. There's even a bit of parasitic load when turned off - about 5 mA - for voltage dividers for contactor and brake fault detection, capacitor leakage in the Roboteq and 3 turned-off DC-DC converters in the CAN modules.
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 23 Jun 2017, 14:23

12 to 15mA off depending if warm, cold, charged or not. (Note the clamp not zeroed here, so reading 3 mA high)

Its about 1/4A (260mA) turned on but stationary if cold. (About 235mA if warm after use).

And about 2.56A running at 8mph (cold) as shown. Drops a little when warm.

Re test cold!

Vid, http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/current.mp4
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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 05 Jul 2017, 03:26

FINALLY ! :D
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 05 Jul 2017, 16:17

finally?
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Re: New chair!

Postby Dan » 07 Jul 2017, 22:19

Well I needed an outdoor chair so I ordered a Storm 4 X-plore with True Track. It should be here on Monday. Just a couple of questions if you don't mind.
Were you able to move the seat back? Will it be OK to charge it with a PL8 and the Lead MK GEL Via W Chair XLR PLUG preset?
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 08 Jul 2017, 09:40

Yes I do use that preset.

Seat back, yes and you must. Its so nose heavy that it will be unusable otherwise. And programming... Or its like sailing a boat.
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Re: New chair!

Postby CPguy » 14 Sep 2017, 10:53

@ burgerman: May ask for an update please? How is your new chair doing?
My rides:
1 BM2/BM3 with 120 A R-Net and Odessey (Lithium in 2016)
1 SKS Swiss VIVA (spare, as only NF22 size battery)
2 Progeo YOGA (for traveling)
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 14 Sep 2017, 11:44

Its not. Its gone back to invacare directly.

Its great for a lightweight user but brushless motors and a new heavy 190kg chair, (and 20 stone user) is a no go.
2 issues:

1. To make it steer, stop steering, when >> I << say so, requires some programming that no normal user will ever have access to. Or dealer. So even OEM programming wont fix that. Same with rolling an inch. You cant do it accurately, and you cant do it when you choose! Its all guesswork! It starts after you tell it, and stops rolling when it feels like it. So with all the tremor damping, rounding, soft start stop and smoothing removed, and with turn and forward acc and dec settings maxed out it is hopeless, still like driving a hovercraft. Quite how normal users get on with this arrangement baffles me entirely.

Fortunately the special version we have here allows an even more comprehensive set of tools/settings such as a turn acceleration / deceleration multiplier. And quite a few others. So that can be overcome. Mine now steers! And then it does turn, stop turning, and move 10mm accurately when you say so. So for personal use I can fix that. But it has another issue that is a real problem.

2. It has a ton of torque, and pulls 175A or more from the battery only once for less than a second. Checked in use with my clamp and a fluke logging meter as I drove. Try turn in space several times and you are out of luck. Itr rolls back power fast. Since this is more nose heavy and much heavier generally, than the old storm 3 it NEEDS this power to turn in place. So it pulls almost 200 battery amps while making only around 2/3rds the torque of a typical 4 pole. And this rapidly falls to around 30A. In just seconds. So you cannot drive. It literally feels like the battery is dead. Wait for 30 secs, and it gives a 1 second boost again and you are away! Until next time.

So it means maneuvering around my room was impossible. This isnt the stall detection, or the current rollback due to temperature its another rollback setting designed to protect battery and fuse/cables.

So I fired off a very tech email to the invacare brushless specialist with my findings. He replied that they needed to collect the chair. And that I would be refunded. No questions, no attempt to find a problem. There IS no fault. Its just not capable. And they obviously had this before. So I suggest its a good chair with these provisos:

a) You weigh 10 to 13 stone MAXIMUM. Ignore the 23.6 Stone claim. I am 3 stone less and it wasn't capable.
b) you move the seat back 3 or 4 inches at least.
c) You MUST do the programming mods I am talking about, and that will likely invalidate the warranty, or it will forever feel like you are driving a hovercraft.

It really does give a good smooth ride probably the best suspension on any chair I tried, and it is drawing just 2A at max speed with wheels off the deck. So range on the street should be enormous. But it doesn't have the torque (for long enough) for any serious weight or user that needs control.

The programming stuff applies to the storm 3 I have here too.
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Re: New chair!

Postby CPguy » 14 Sep 2017, 13:01

Thank you very much for the detailed reply!

WOW. I am gob smacked. I am happy to read that you are getting refunded.

May I ask you to elaborate on the programming problems and solutions please? (via PM if you want) I commissioned a modification of a F55 frame using the brushless motors and 24 Volt lithium as a propulsion system.

I am only 72 kg (approx. 12 stone) and a F55 frame is not that heavy so I am confident that I can make it work by moving the centre of gravity backwards and adjusting the programming.

On a different note Invacare should build you a custom chair that works after you did all this development work for them... ;)
My rides:
1 BM2/BM3 with 120 A R-Net and Odessey (Lithium in 2016)
1 SKS Swiss VIVA (spare, as only NF22 size battery)
2 Progeo YOGA (for traveling)
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 14 Sep 2017, 13:21

You will be OK at your weight.

I will PM...
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Re: New chair!

Postby CPguy » 14 Sep 2017, 23:17

Thank you very much for the PM. Its a treasure trove!
My rides:
1 BM2/BM3 with 120 A R-Net and Odessey (Lithium in 2016)
1 SKS Swiss VIVA (spare, as only NF22 size battery)
2 Progeo YOGA (for traveling)
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Re: New chair!

Postby ex-Gooserider » 19 Sep 2017, 02:28

Do they make a brush motor version of the chair? I know that the GB motors are better in theory, but it sounds like a brush motor version wouldn't have the same sort of excess current draw problems....

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Want to make / get a better chair, ideally one that stands.
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 19 Sep 2017, 02:35

But that chairs main attraction WAS the silent, brushless motors and nothing to wear out and great range.
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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 19 Sep 2017, 04:08

Would foreign purchase be exempted from VAT ?
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 19 Sep 2017, 09:26

For export you dont have to pay VAT as far as I know.
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