PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pictures

[rustyjames]

Hyperion could have provided a schematic for dummies like me. But I came across this which helps with my understanding:

[Dan]

Just how is the pack hooked up to the chairs batteries? Do you just take the positive to the positive and negative to negative?

This is the picture of my chair. Would it be ok to put a SP50 (50 amp one but I also have a 120Amp one if that would be better) where I have marked on the pic? Presuming the leads on the right are connecting the batteries in series.

The batteries are terminals ring. I plan to.
Make a 8AWG lead with ring terminals connect to batteries, the other end of the cable being a SP50. With a 100Amp inline midi fuse.
A similar cable coming from the new pack to connect to the SP50 which was added to the chair.

Also coming from the pack another lead made from 12AWG to a SP50 with the balance wires. This will be connected to the charger.

I hope the charge the chair and pack at the same time.

[Burgerman]

If you connect there you will get zero volts. I think. Use a multi meter. I think its the other two terminals. If you see 24V thats it. Yes parallel.

I did mine like this:

download/file.php?id=6620&mode=view
And
download/file.php?id=6617&mode=view
And
download/file.php?id=6622&mode=view

More pics on here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6151

Where the loop, is in place of the battery joining link, that you ringed on your pic. And the two unused ones here are 0V and 24V.

So you can get 12V, parallel, 24V, or pull the link when the chair is stored so its battery doesent discharge. Or connect an external pack.

[Dan]

Looks good BM but I'm trying to keep things simple for now.
I plan to set the pack in a box attached to the back of the chair. There is loads of room back there. Its my first attempt at anything like this.

I can just hook the pack to the main batteries in parallel? Neg from the pack to Neg on the chair and Pos from the pack to Pos on the chair? Thats the chairs battery terminals with 24V out.
What way did you hook yours up Expresso?

The pack is built, I am discharging it a bit using Expresso's 36Ah lifepo4 addon preset. All cells are at 3.297V

[Burgerman]

Yes as you described. But neater to do as I did, but just one anderson.

[Dan]

I do kind of wanna do it the way yours was done but I have to talk someone else into doing the labour.

Is that just 50Amp SB50's you were using? What size of fuse would I use on the live wires? I have some 120Amp midi about somewhere. Would you also fuse the leads to the loop wire?

[Burgerman]

Yes you just need an anderson 50 and some wires, and two ring terminals. You can fit a fuse that protects the cables. If you use 6sqmm cables a 60 or 70A fuse will be OK. If you use 10sq mm cables, as I did, a 100 or 120A fuse is OK. If your addon battery cables are only 6sqmm you need a 70A fuse at the battery pack.

I would use 10mm cable for both though.

[garriew]

I have a Permobil M300 and I need new batteries. I was planning on getting the MK gels, group 34 and making one of these. But I started thinking how much harder is it to just go 100% lithium?

[Burgerman]

Group 34 is a more dificult size. But it can still be done. The main difference is cost.

[garriew]

Do you mean more difficult for a full convert or ADD ON? The M300 will use group 34 or 24.

[Burgerman]

Group 24 is easy. There is now a simple way since sinopoly made a high rate 100Ah cell that is a convenient size. As long as you have 221mm height or more.

That will double your range and a little more.

[garriew]

Are the instructions in the long conversion thread?

[Burgerman]

Pretty much.

[Dan]

expresso do you have a copy of the latest PL8 settings for charging this 30Ah pack and the chairs batteries simultaneously?

[expresso]

expresso do you have a copy of the latest PL8 settings for charging this 30Ah pack and the chairs batteries simultaneously?

Hi - yes - i called the preset - Combined - its set at 15A charge rate - you can change that if you want faster -

i also gave you another one which you can charge the ADD ON pack only if you like - if you needed it - not combined with the lead - it says 36ah - dosnt mean anything - my first pack was 36ah -

just use the Combined preset if charging both lead and lithium together - if you leave them connected all the time - its best and works like a charm

[Dan]

Thanks! Summer is coming, I hope, the winters here are coldish, wet, dark and windy and I don't do so well in the cold I'm hoping to get over 25 miles at 8MPH with the pack.

[expresso]

you should be able to - but it all depends on other factors - your chair - the condition of the Lead you have already - roads you drive on - etc,

my chair is light - i am using new MK Gel 24 and 36ah ADD ON - my chair is an 8.5 mph chair - dosnt feel it though since they have changed the motors or i got used to the faster chair and this one feels slow - either way - i have gotten 25 to 26 miles this way - before hitting the Red - or right before the red

once you start loosing your green light on the JS - head back - but that happened to me around the 18 mile mark - i was already on my way back on that trip

you have to get used to your chair with it and learn how far it can go etc, you dont want to do too low - if you are making a cell monitor that can be more helpful for you

i never used one yet -

[garriew]

expresso,

Do you have pictures of the cable that connects the add-on to the batteries? The ends. I have read the thread but don't remember seeing it. Or do you have a parts list?

Would you (or anyone else) be interested in making the cable? I'd pay for parts + time.

I just need that cable now because my batteries are about shot, so I was going to have it installed when they install my MK Group 34 batteries. The M300 is really hard to get to the batteries.

[expresso]

you can use 8AWG cable Silicone is good - use 1/4 inch connectors on one end and the other end is SB50 -

you mean the cable from the lead batteries to outside the chair - then you can connect the ADD ON to it -

i have to look if i have pictures of that - when i get a moment i check - i may not have pics of that cable

measure how long you will need depending where you will mount it - give your self some slack room if you can for when you remove the batteries - if they pull out etc, so the cable wont stop limit you from doing that -

[expresso]

i dont have any pics of the cable itself - but here is the one end which you connect to the battery - then the other end is a SB50 connector -

thats it - you can add some braided loom to make it look nice - you want to crimp and solder - heatshrink etc,

you can use 8 AWG for this cable -

[garriew]

That's easy enough! Just ordered the stuff.

Now to order the lithium.

[Gnomatic]

Now to order the lithium.

You won't be disappointed!

[expresso]

That's easy enough! Just ordered the stuff.

Now to order the lithium.

if you want the most out of this ADD ON - and if you can do it - get enough to make a 45ah pack - 3 rows of 15ah cells - i did 30ah but was set to do 45ah when other things came up and i used the extra cells for another project 12V 15ah pack i needed - and my 30ah is connected to a 105ah so it wasnt really a big deal for me - but with lead - might as well get the most you can -

45ah - you will double your range - thats like having another set of group 24 batteries

[garriew]

if you want the most out of this ADD ON - and if you can do it - get enough to make a 45ah pack - 3 rows of 15ah cells

I already placed my order for 16. Well, I actually ordered 20. So, I just need 4 more, (a total of 24) for 3 rows?

[Burgerman]

Yes.

[garriew]

I added 4 more to my order. I'll have 24 total.

[expresso]

you did the best thing - might as well make the most of the ADD ON - 45ah is about the most you can do - so it wont be too huge to hang in the rear - i will most likely add to mines also this winter and make it a 45ah also - since i am letting a friend use it this summer - Quickie - so she can ride with me to a few other places which cant reach with lead alone -

if you use a backpack like i use - it fits 45ah perfect - so i have 30ah in one of them and 36ah in another - if i had 45ah instead - bag still looks the same

[Burgerman]

You are all getting greedy now.
Try telling your physio/ot/assessor that a 15 mile range lead chair isnt enough, and that now your 40 mile lithium pack is too small, so you need 45Ah exta on top!

[expresso]

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1

fills the bag - very strong - i hang it and then i use these

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1

i will be replacing the ones i have now that are round and thinner with these - much stronger and flat is better - dont have to worry about it coming off at all - and i wheelie often up hills etc, - never even thing about it -

i have a plastic Shoe box of some sort i found in a store to sit them in and then in the bag

[garriew]

I just hope the power tilt on the back leaves me room.

What cable will I need to charge the Lifepo4 individually the first time? I have the PowerLab 8 v2