PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pictures

[garriew]

Get the data from the graphs for the first few.

Which graphs show it?

[Burgerman]

Ah returned

[Dan]

There is some talk about fitting a diode between the battery and the add on pack. Should I fit one between my battery and a 30Ah pack? Which one? Live wire only?

[Burgerman]

Is the addon a sensible size? If so, no need.

[garriew]

I'm going to start recharging the cells. It's been about a month since I first charged them.

I have a question though... I am adding a 12/24 volt usb charger to the factory batteries. It has eye rings. Will I plug it to the same posts that I install the cable for the pack? The 0 volt & 24 volt posts.

[Burgerman]

Yes.

[hobie1dog]

I just read all 25 pages, gradually getting educated, as I always was a slow learner.

[Burgerman]

Are you going to give it a go?

[hobie1dog]

Are you going to give it a go?

I simply don't have the money at this point. Living on disability income leaves very little left over. I'm still selling things on the classified sites as I have been doing the last 3 years since getting screwed up, to come up with money for various car repairs. And I still haven't been able to get my Suburban running for the past year, just no money to get new brakes and tires needed before it will pass inspection.

[Burgerman]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius,_North_Carolina

Looks like a decent place. A rich white religous town. Is there a reason that disabled here get less money to live on or less help in other ways compared to other parts of the US?

I ask because much like myself, and obviously a few others here, expresso in new york (where housing really costs a lot), has housing, pizzas, wine, heat, several carers, 2 or 3 chairs, and a bunch of lithium batteries as main packs and addons, chargers, power supplies etc, also in the US. Different places, different levels of help and assistance?

[ex-Gooserider]

What you can get when hurt is a combo of what you start with, past history, where you live and so on...

Our Social (In)Security system has two different payout methods depending on your work history - IF you worked enough, recently enough, you get a check based on your work history. If not, there is a minimum, but ONLY if you don't have any other significant assets (if married, the spouse counts, if not the partner doesn't)

If you are military and were hurt in-service, or were career, you get some really good benefits - including frequent replacements of vans, chairs, etc... In fact the US market for used WC van conversions is largely supplied by vets trading in their barely used vans every couple of years...

If you were hurt on the job, you might make out really well, or not depending on how good your former employer's workman's compensation system is and how well you worked that system...

Some states have more generous gov't funded healthcare (Medicaid) systems than others - downside is the generous states usually screw you royally in taxes...

Then of course there is always the question of what sort of assets you had to begin with - plus friends, family and other local support (including those nasty religious groups you dislike so much... )

Basically a great deal depends on how well you can 'work' the system so as to maximize your potential benefits - which also sometimes is a question of what you are willing to give up....

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Seems more fair than here. Many benefits are means tested. So that if you worked hard to help yourself then after an accident like mine, you have more, so get less assistance. And so end up in the same boat as someone that never did a damned thing. The one exception being your house. Which isnt counted.

[ex-Gooserider]

It's a mixed bag - the rules are complex and have different sorts of ins and outs... One example - MGW and I are not married, so even though we share her house and have been happily UNmarried for better than 20 years, her income doesn't count, so I have no income... OTOH if we were married, it would... She makes enough that it would have made a HUGE difference in what I qualified for.... (and we are totally open about this - not hiding it at all, but as soon as we say 'not married' the application person says 'doesn't count)

OTOH, it meant that we couldn't share driving on rental cars, and I usually couldn't get coverage under her health insurance, so there were minor headaches as well...

One that has never made a difference and may never, is that she was born in the UK, so technically has dual US / UK citizenship... If things ever went totally to crap in the US, at least under current laws, she could flee to the UK.... If we were married, she could bring me along as spouse, but since we aren't I could only get in as a tourist... Doesn't seem likely to be a problem...

ex-Gooserider

[expresso]

Here is an update on this 30ah pack - its now a 45ah ADD ON pack - i added another row - 8 Cells - this was my first intention at the time -

this is the most i can fit in my Bag that i hang on my chair with Headway Cells -

[Burgerman]

That looks very heavy to be hanging high up on the back of a chair to me...

She makes enough that it would have made a HUGE difference in what I qualified for.... (and we are totally open about this - not hiding it at all, but as soon as we say 'not married' the application person says 'doesn't count)

Thats the result of letting religion or religous people make the rules.

[expresso]

not too bad - no much more than the 60ah pack is - its the most that fits in the bag i use so why not fill it and thats it - 150ah total for that chair - can easily be swapped off this chair to another chair etc, if needed - and 45ah is a decent amount - 30ah wasnt enough as a ADD ON with lead - actually 60ah now is my Min. if i had to it over for a lead chair - at least 60ah ADD ON - using the other kind of cells

with headways this is the limit

[Scooterman]

First Step -

Buy the Cells you want to use - i am using 15ah Cells - 16 Cells -
charge them and let them sit as been told many times on here

Hi, please can someone direct me to where it mentions on WD how to do this?

EDIT: I know first thing you do is number new batteries when they arrive, and write down on a table the voltages.

Then you charge to 3.6v. Then what, you leave standing for a month or more, then measure the voltage levels again, add up all the voltages and arrange cells in parallel lots of equivalent average voltage?

Then you connect the parallel lots in series to give you approx 24v

[Burgerman]

EDIT: I know first thing you do is number new batteries when they arrive, and write down on a table the voltages.

No just number them. But check that they are all simillar and above 3V. Usually 4.something.

Then you charge to 3.6v. Then what, you leave standing for a month or more, then measure the voltage levels again, add up all the voltages and arrange cells in parallel lots of equivalent average voltage?

Charge each, same exact settings, and store in a box for a month. Its healthier to charge and then remove say 1Ah (1000mA) from each cell, which means watching them discharge and clicking the mouse to stop after 999mA out... 4 or 5mA out either way not critical. Because ideally its not good to store these fully charged.

After a month, charge each one again, and at the point the charge ends, write down mA number returned, -1000. That gives you the amount of SELF DISCHARGE each one had over the month. It will be a very small figure, say 30 to 100mA. Make sure that the charge termination setting is quite high, like 250mA when doing this. Both times, the same figure. Actual figure not critical, but dont change it.

Then you connect the parallel lots in series to give you approx 24v

Then you need to make groups of 2 in parallel. Since you have 16 cells. Make them add up to the same figure. So if some cells are 50mA and some are 25mA then the two together will be 75mA. With only 16 cells, thats not going to be easy but it prevents you from putting say 2 cells together that have say 100mA self discharge, and 2 that have 25... Because you can mix the right ones together to get a reasonable average.

THEN asssemble your parallel groups of 2, in series to give 8S or 24V.
THEN charge as a series pack with 8S and 24V.

[Scooterman]

Thanks BM, I think I'm beginning to slowly understand it.

I understand about why you measure the recharge mA because I remember reading that due to Lifepo4 discharge characteristics, voltage level doesn't drop measurable until a cell is well discharged. So measuring VD after a month is no good.

Am I right in guessing that the lithium chargers you use (PL8 or Hyperion) can be connected to a pc and work with graphing software although I think I might be wrong there?

Paraphrasing "Clicking the mouse to discharge each cell by 1000mA before storing" Do you use some form of pc dongle to act as a load so you can control the discharge rate/amount with the mouse? And the graphing software a visual representation of battery state?

NOT RELEVANT TO THREAD The r-net 120 arrived although I haven't tried it yet as I'm still faffing around making and fitting my lightweight seat pan and ancillaries (it's going okay, honest! Lol).

Re the lithium, I was wondering that when I finish the seat and come up to you for programming , whether you could also show me your lithium charger and software, etc. I'm sure I'll be able to understand better if I physically see the equipment and talk to you. I'll bring a notepad.

[Burgerman]

Am I right in guessing that the lithium chargers you use (PL8 or Hyperion) can be connected to a pc and work with graphing software although I think I might be wrong there?

Yes...
Look carefully!

[steves1977uk]

Re the lithium, I was wondering that when I finish the seat and come up to you for programming , whether you could also show me your lithium charger and software, etc. I'm sure I'll be able to understand better if I physically see the equipment and talk to you. I'll bring a notepad.

I can do programming for the R-Net too, although BM's speech is better than mine for guiding you through the PL8 setup.

Steve

[Burgerman]

Download pl8 software and experiment.

[Scooterman]

Yes...
Look carefully!

Ah, I see. You've got two cells connected to what I guess are PL8s. And am assuming the grey ribbon-like cable connects to the pc, and two graphs showing cell info. Also a PIP which looks like a CCTV image of the room. Not sure what the two grey boxes are though?

Download pl8 software and experiment.

I can't, Mac! Although I do plan to replace my 13" macbook pro with a 13" laptop cos my mac is expiring and keeps on playing up. Plus only has 4Gb RAM

I can do programming for the R-Net too, although BM's speech is better than mine for guiding you through the PL8 setup.

Thanks mate but I've just done a gmaps search (public transport), and Wells next the Sea is an even worse place for me to get to than BM's. It's 6hrs via public transport, BM's is about 5hrs door to door. Anything east or north east is a nightmare for me as I live SW of London and always have to cross it.

[Burgerman]

Why do people buy those things. They wont run anything useful but for a browser and email. You may as well use your phone.

Cant you just run windows on it?
Its free to anyone with a clue how. Every version. Every software...

[Scooterman]

Cant you just run windows on it?
Its free to anyone with a clue how. Every version. Every software...

Yes I have heard about that, I need to partition the hard drive or something? I see free versions of windows on torrent sites, but I don't know they all look a bit iffy to me (virus), but perhaps not? Trouble is my MAC's not got a disc drive either, it's slimline like me! Lol

[Scooterman]

I've just been doing a search of 13" laptops. I remember a while back you recommending me one or two, although they were top of range.

I like 13" lightweight, SSD, nice keyboard and touchpad as starting specs. Don't like heavy or HDD as fan vents gets blocked on my lap and noisy.

When I get round to getting one is a CD/DVD ROM drive important for mob equipment modification and programming?

[steves1977uk]

https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/laptops ... 360-laptop Far better than any Mac...

Steve

[expresso]

BM - i been using the Combined preset you made and works fine - but i have a friend who got my 36ah pack - and with a new battery the vendor is now using

they claim its better than the Gels MK etc, what ever - but they are in the end a Hybrid of some sort - but AGM really -

giving that AGM charge higher volts - Can i adjust the preset for the setup - to charge up to 3.6V like i normally do with the lithium alone ?

instead of the 3.25V we use now i believe - i will order two extra diodes and add them to her chair - the ADD ON will go on her new chair though - which i believe will arrive with MK Gel - in that case i wont adjust the preset - but if not i can use the lithium preset 3.6V and should be perfect ?

i want to add two diodes on her chair this time - giving her the Max range with the ADD ON - i think she be happy - if it can at least get 25 miles - heavier chair than mines and smaller pack 36ah - - --

so its ok to use 3.6v if using AGM and leave alone if using Gels MK ?

thanks

[Burgerman]

Yes, 28.8 for AGM (8X 3.600V), should be fine.

[expresso]

Yes, 28.8 for AGM (8X 3.600V), should be fine.

thanks will do - ordering more of diodes also -